Irish Citizenship

DonJose

A friend of mine had a conversation with a Polish guy in work. It seems a lot of the Poles working in Ireland don't plan on staying long. Their plan is to work 5 years, save some money, then apply for Irish citizenship then feck off to the states. Is it really that easy to get Irish citizenship?

Boston

You call staying here for five years easy? Have you any idea how expensive it is?

homah_7ft

Why do they want Irish citizenship if they are going to the states?

copacetic

DonJose wrote:

A friend of mine had a conversation with a Polish guy in work. It seems a lot of the Poles working in Ireland don't plan on staying long. Their plan is to work 5 years, save some money, then apply for Irish citizenship then feck off to the states. Is it really that easy to get Irish citizenship?

how would having irish citizenship allow one to 'feck off' to the states?

DonJose

Polish citizens need visas to enter the US, Irish citizens don't.

copacetic

DonJose wrote:

Polish citizens need visas to enter the US, Irish citizens don't.

so they are working here for 5 years just so they can enter the states and work illegally?

that's complete rubbish.

KTRIC

DonJose wrote:

Polish citizens need visas to enter the US, Irish citizens don't.

I don't know where you get your idea's from !!! Since when did Irish not need a visa to stay / work in the states ??

mikemac

If you don't need a visa, did I waste my time getting a J1 visa a few years ago?

I reckon you were lied to-it's a typical "heard this from a friend" story

homah_7ft

Well to get in we don't need a visa. This is to visit of course. In reply to your actual question...
If you wish to become an Irish citizen through naturalisation, you must:

Be 18 years or older (you must be married if you are under the age of 18) or,
Be a minor born in the State (from 1 January 2005) and
Be of good character - the Garda Síochána (Ireland's national police) will be asked to provide a report about your background. Any criminal record or ongoing proceedings will be taken into consideration by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in deciding whether or not to grant naturalisation. Details of any proceedings, criminal or civil, in the State or elsewhere, should be disclosed in the application form, and
Have had a period of 1 year's continuous reckonable residence in the State immediately before the date of your application for naturalisation and, during the 8 years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the State amounting to 4 years. Altogether you must have 5 years' reckonable residence out of the last 9 years -
Intend in good faith to continue to reside in the State after naturalisation and,
Make a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State

DonJose

Eh maybe they plan on staying there illegally. As it is Polish citizens need to apply for a visa to visit the States, its not too easy for a Polish citizen to get a tourist visa. There are a lot more illegal Poles in the states than illegal Irish. With an Irish passport they don't need a visa to enter.

Mossy Monk

DonJose wrote:

Polish citizens need visas to enter the US, Irish citizens don't.

Oh really. Do tell me more.

copacetic

DonJose wrote:

Eh maybe they plan on staying there illegally. As it is Polish citizens need to apply for a visa to visit the States, its not too easy for a Polish citizen to get a tourist visa. There are a lot more illegal Poles in the states than illegal Irish. With an Irish passport they don't need a visa to enter.

but there are 100s of easier ways of getting into the US than spending five years in Ireland to try and get citizenship?

Dave

Eh, y'know the US government is in the process of introducing measure making it MORE difficult to get into the states in any form (and yes Ireland counts, we don't get any special treatment). Also where are people getting this idea that we don't need visas for some reason? Links?

DonJose

Dave wrote:

Also where are people getting this idea that we don't need visas for some reason? Links?

The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) enables nationals of certain countries to travel to the United States for tourism or business for stays of 90 days or less without obtaining a visa.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

Red Hand

Don't think they are going to make their fortune in 90 days.

And working illegally in the US may not be such a good prospect if you can work legally in most of the EU?

looksee

And if you are there because your (American) employer wants you at head office for three months and you stay 91 days because your (American) employer can't count you are then subjected to lengthy interviews and giving out at immigration, and have to get a visa for all future visits to the States.

tampopo

looksee wrote:

And if you are there because your (American) employer wants you at head office for three months and you stay 91 days because your (American) employer can't count you are then subjected to lengthy interviews and giving out at immigration, and have to get a visa for all future visits to the States.

that's if they let you back in after 10 years

brianthebard

DonJose wrote:

Polish citizens need visas to enter the US, Irish citizens don't.

That's so wrong it deserves a prize for wrongness.

Boston

brianthebard wrote:

That's so wrong it deserves a prize for wrongness.

You're so wrong you should shut the **** up. Go read the thread boyo.

DonJose

brianthebard wrote:

That's so wrong it deserves a prize for wrongness.

Ireland is one of 27 countries that qualify for the Visa Waiver Program
http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html

There is no mention of the VWP on the US Embassy in Poland website
http://poland.usembassy.gov/visas/nonimmigrant-visas.html

Giblet

Boston wrote:

You're so wrong you should shut the **** up. Go read the thread boyo.

This was reported, but he's right

Dave

So what's the deal with the VWP? If you leave the country after on the 89th day lets say, can you just turn around and come back in for another 90 days?

DonJose

Dave wrote:

So what's the deal with the VWP? If you leave the country after on the 89th day lets say, can you just turn around and come back in for another 90 days?

You need to enter a non-bordering before returning to the States, so hopping across the board to Mexico or Canada will not count.

Exit

Dave wrote:

So what's the deal with the VWP? If you leave the country after on the 89th day lets say, can you just turn around and come back in for another 90 days?

You could try it once maybe, but you're being risky trying it again and again. Soon enough they'll cop on, and then you could be kicked out for a long time. It's illegal to 'live' in a country without actually having residency.

Dave

But is there a law stating that you're only allowed spend X number of days in a country as a non-resident without a work visa?

brianthebard

Boston wrote:

You're so wrong you should shut the **** up. Go read the thread boyo.

And yet my cousin needed a visa to go there last year?

Exit

brianthebard wrote:

And yet my cousin needed a visa to go there last year?

You don't need a tourist visa to enter the US if you're Irish. Sure, can't you just hop on a flight tomorrow if you wanted. Certain countries have to apply beforehand to the US embassy for a tourist visa.

Is your cousin an Irish citizen? Were they intending to work there? Were they intending to spend more than 90 days?

Exit

Dave wrote:

But is there a law stating that you're only allowed spend X number of days in a country as a non-resident without a work visa?

I don't know if there's a specific law, but it's certainly frowned upon and will get you in trouble.

brianthebard

Exit wrote:

You don't need a tourist visa to enter the US if you're Irish. Sure, can't you just hop on a flight tomorrow if you wanted. Certain countries have to apply beforehand to the US embassy for a tourist visa.

Is your cousin an Irish citizen? Were they intending to work there? Were they intending to spend more than 90 days?

Yes No No.

DonJose

brianthebard wrote:

That's so wrong it deserves a prize for wrongness.

You can keep that prize, you won it fair and square

I've been to the States 3 times in the past 12 months, I didn't need a visa and neither did any of my family.

"A non-immigrant visa is required by anyone seeking temporary admission to the United States who is not eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)."
http://dublin.usembassy.gov/

Irish citizens are eligable to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program.

copacetic

brianthebard wrote:

And yet my cousin needed a visa to go there last year?

your cousin didn't. simple as that. have been in and out of the states a pile of times in last few years and never needed a visa..

just admit you made a big fool of yourself and move on! you weren't the only one above in fairness.

this is starting to make donjose look like he had a point when he didn't to begin with. getting into the states with a holiday visa isn't worth spending 5 years in ireland to get citizenship, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

DonJose

copacetic wrote:

this is starting to make donjose look like he had a point when he didn't to begin with. getting into the states with a holiday visa isn't worth spending 5 years in ireland to get citizenship, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

The Irish economy isn't as strong now as it was 3-4 years when the immigrants started coming. A lot of them will be let go, especially in the construction sector. A lot of the immigrants have been here 3-4 years, another year or two and they will be able to apply for Irish citizenship. It is extremly hard for a Polish citizen to get a tourist visa to the States due to illegal immigration, Poland is even excluded from the diversity visa lottery. You might not believe it but a lot of Polish people dream of living in the States, for some of them obtaining an Irish passport is the only realistic way of gaining entry to the States.

"Poland ranks tenth as a source of illegal immigrants to the U.S. with an estimated 70,000 in the early 21st century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_American

Deliverance

I was born in England, and my parents are Irish. I have lived here for several years and I had to prove my heritage by my parents (regardless of naturalisation) who were both born in Ireland. I had to provide certs from my parents or grandparents, great grandparents do not count. And I had to get a written approval from a local authority ie: Guarda or Priest to prove I was who I was.

To get an Irish passport you actually have to be Irish ie: have Irish parents or grandparents, great grandparents as I have said do not count. You cannot get an Irish passport unless you have this close relationship.

Plus it takes a year at least to process if your contesting your grandparents as your plea to citizenship.

I am Irish and I had a hard time getting my passport, a Polish person would find it next to impossible under the current regime methinks.

Black Swan

You need a visa to work, green card, and a driver's license is almost a must. When you apply for work, they want 2 pieces of ID (unless you have dual citizenship and have a USA passport...then only one ID). There is a form that HR fills out on all employees. I think it's called the I-9?

Some states have their own requirements too. If you establish residence in California (and plan to drive), you must apply for a driver's license within 10 days. Fortunately, it's a lot quicker and easier to pass in California than Ireland!

cailinoBAC

If you have a nonstandard passport you may not be able to avail of the visa waiver scheme. Since November 2003 the US are stricter about the type of passport you have. I have an embassy issued passport so I can't go to the US without a visa, so I haven't bothered to go since 2003.

As for the original post, I think it's a load or rubbish. Maybe it's an idea some Polish guys came up with after drinking some vodka 'hey, we could do this and finally see AMERICA!!!' but I doubt anybody would actually take it seriously.

DonJose

cailinoBAC wrote:

As for the original post, I think it's a load or rubbish. Maybe it's an idea some Polish guys came up with after drinking some vodka 'hey, we could do this and finally see AMERICA!!!' but I doubt anybody would actually take it seriously.

If anybody here works with Poles ask them if they intend on applying for a Irish passport, if they answer "Yes", ask them the reason why they would apply for an Irish passport.

Kintarō Hattori

copacetic wrote:

just admit you made a big fool of yourself and move on! you weren't the only one above in fairness.

Isn't that a tad harsh? Perhaps we should let Brian explain the circumstances instead of lambasting him first.

themole

Dave wrote:

But is there a law stating that you're only allowed spend X number of days in a country as a non-resident without a work visa?

Afaik, the visa waiver programme is just a courtisy.

The US reserves the right to refuse admissiosn to anyone trying to enter using it. So, they do not need any law per say to deny you entry. In practical terms if the emmigration guy thinks you may be unfairly using the programme they will deny you entry and make you apply for a visa.

Attractive Nun

DonJose wrote:

The Irish economy isn't as strong now as it was 3-4 years when the immigrants started coming. A lot of them will be let go, especially in the construction sector. A lot of the immigrants have been here 3-4 years, another year or two and they will be able to apply for Irish citizenship. It is extremly hard for a Polish citizen to get a tourist visa to the States due to illegal immigration, Poland is even excluded from the diversity visa lottery. You might not believe it but a lot of Polish people dream of living in the States, for some of them obtaining an Irish passport is the only realistic way of gaining entry to the States.

"Poland ranks tenth as a source of illegal immigrants to the U.S. with an estimated 70,000 in the early 21st century."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_American

So these Poles' idea is that they will work in Ireland, one of the most expensive economies in the world, for five years so that the US government will waive their need to obtain a tourist visa before visiting the USA? After that, they will proceed to work, and live, illegally in the states indefinitely? Not the most clever bunch... surely it would be infinintely easier (and about 4 years, 360 days quicker) to just try obtain a tourist visa as a Polish citizen?

damonjewel

I think they are kidding themselves with five years. I think Its five years to be naturalised but a bit longer to be a full passport carrying Irish citizen.

Also when you get the requirements to become a citizen it takes almost a year to process it.

And who knows they may change the rules for this to make it longer if the powers that be deem so (remember the referendum for children born in Ireland not being automatic citizens)

digitally-yours

DonJose wrote:

If anybody here works with Poles ask them if they intend on applying for a Irish passport, if they answer "Yes", ask them the reason why they would apply for an Irish passport.

I asked and got 3 out of 3 "YES" so get ready for 200,000 Polirish:D .

robinph

brianthebard wrote:

And yet my cousin needed a visa to go there last year?

I needed a visa for travelling to the US many years ago as well, I think it was due to us travelling via a third country to get their though that meant we needed the visas for that trip.

patrickolee

digitally-yours wrote:

I asked and got 3 out of 3 "YES" so get ready for 200,000 Polirish:D .

Only one Polish guy in my work... he said no, because he'd have to give up his polish passport.

Little-Devil

I know a few polish from where i worked before and they said the plan was to work here for a few years and save there money and go back to poland and buy a house and get a job back home. I doubt if there all thinking the same idea to all heading off to america. They all have there own plans and idea's, some will stay and some will go back.

Boston

patrickolee wrote:

Only one Polish guy in my work... he said no, because he'd have to give up his polish passport.

Is that a polish thing? Because I know someone with a british and Irish passport, or is that a special good friday thing?

ellenmelon

im nz born i got my irish passport through my dad. all my siblings and myself are included on the foreign birth registry also..i dont know is this a given when you get an irish passport?? when my dad was born, he was born in a year which at the time, was included in a wee bit of a legal loophole. my poppa had the foresight to get my dad his irish passport so that his future grandchildren could see the world a lot easier. im so so pleased that he did! my dad's younger sisters kids are the only others in my family that can get irish citizenship. his two older siblings cant get it.
when we applied to get my family passports it was a really long process and really expensive too. there was a wee bit of a rush too as i was 17 and i couldnt get it if i was over 18. i remember a justice of the peace coming over one night to do the paperwork and it took aaages.especially mum having to apply for a post nuptial one. but it was well worth it. if my dad didnt have his passport we still might have been able to get them but it would have included a lot more paperwork.

robinph

Boston wrote:

Is that a polish thing? Because I know someone with a british and Irish passport, or is that a special good friday thing?

Its alway been possible to hold both a UK and Irish passport as long as you meet the conditions of each.