Rock the Vote throw in the towel?

Oirthir

So, eh, looks like the Rock the Vote campaign has finally given up. Whilst I accept the assertion that the Thursday poll will knock onto turnout, the RTV folks didn't exactly run an electrifying campaign...

Link to Article Below

Irish Times Breaking News wrote:

Vote campaigners fear low turnout

Tue, May 22, 2007

The turnout in Thursday's election could plunge to the lowest in the history of the State, it was claimed today.

The number of citizens casting their ballots has plummeted by tens of thousands of voters over the past 20 years from 74 per cent in 1982 to only 63 per cent in 2002.

Ireland has one of the worst voter turnouts among young people in Europe and the Rock The Vote campaigners believe a Thursday poll will not help this situation.

"Many students are doing finals and won't be able to get home to vote if they live elsewhere," said Rock The Vote executive director Patrick Cosgrave.

Mr Cosgrave added: "We never had so many people in the 18-24 age bracket, and they make up a large chunk of the electorate now. I would be massively surprised if we don't drop below the 60 per cent turnout level."

Only 25 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds in Ireland voted in the last election, compared with 80 per cent in Sweden.

Last year's €12 million overhaul of the electoral register by the Government may not be enough to stem the decline.

But Trinity College politics expert Prof Michael Marsh believes there is more public interest in the current general election compared to previous polls.

"There is more engagement but the accuracy of the electoral register will be key to turnout," Prof Marsh, who is compiling the biggest ever study of voter behaviour, added.

"Many people believe that there are still tens of thousands of names listed twice and others who should be on it and aren't listed."

In 2002, the highest turnout was 73.36 per cent in Cork North West and the lowest was 51.96 per cent in Dublin South Central.

© 2007 ireland.com

stepbar

Calling the election for a Thursday was a poor decision on Bertie's part.

On another point, FF spent 12 mil overhauling the voting register and yet there's still people getting two polling cards. For god sake how hard can it be to attach your right to vote to your PPS number?

brianthebard

Its obviously beyond this government's competency. Is is possible for an election to be void if a certain percentage doesn't turn out?

funktastic

Due to it being tight more people might be enticed to vote. But in terms of students/young people, a lot that I know with exams/jobs in Dublin won't be going home to vote as it's too much hassle.

Oirthir

Oirthir wrote:

So, eh, looks like the Rock the Vote campaign has finally given up. Whilst I accept the assertion that the Thursday poll will knock onto turnout, the RTV folks didn't exactly run an electrifying campaign...

The fact that they're issuing a press release on this topic suggests that it was planned, perhaps as a scare tactic in order to say 'your vote counts even more'.

On the point Prof. Marsh said, my sister has two votes with one with her middle name, and one without. She'll be using just the one, but it's still a bit odd.

edanto

stepbar wrote:

Calling the election for a Thursday was a poor decision on Bertie's part.

Well, not if you look at it from his point of view.

He doesn't want young people, that are struggling to buy a house after 10 years of FF/PD policies, that are upset by our part in the war on Iraq, that are tired from commuting long distances from sleeper towns or packing on to early trains being able to give this government the kick up the arse (opposition for a decade) that it sorely needs.

They want people that have become wealthy from the property boom, and other demographics with high election day turnout - like pensioners and their kids (ref - the E300 pension highlighted in the FF campaign) to come and vote for more of the same.

They know that people that aren't that well off will find it hard to get the time to care about the election or the energy to go and do something about it.

So, from his point of view, having an election right at the end of the SSIA boom, on a Thursday, in exam season, should stop a lot of people that are angry with the government from actually going and doing anything about it.

edanto

and OP, why do you think they have thrown in the towel? RTV are working in the same building as me and Paddy told me yesterday that this could be a movement that takes half a decade to become established.

stepbar

Myth wrote:

On the point Prof. Marsh said, my sister has two votes with one with her middle name, and one without. She'll be using just the one, but it's still a bit odd.

And still all the various authorities have their own little systems and ways of collecting up the names. Instead of implementing a nationwide framework for creating the voting register we have local authorities doing the job independently of each other. Nobody should be getting two polling cards no matter where they live or will live in the future.

stepbar

edanto wrote:

Well, not if you look at it from his point of view.

He doesn't want young people, that are struggling to buy a house after 10 years of FF/PD policies, that are upset by our part in the war on Iraq, that are tired from commuting long distances from sleeper towns or packing on to early trains being able to give this government the kick up the arse (opposition for a decade) that it sorely needs.

They want people that have become wealthy from the property boom, and other demographics with high election day turnout - like pensioners and their kids (ref - the E300 pension highlighted in the FF campaign) to come and vote for more of the same.

They know that people that aren't that well off will find it hard to get the time to care about the election or the energy to go and do something about it.

So, from his point of view, having an election right at the end of the SSIA boom, on a Thursday, in exam season, should stop a lot of people that are angry with the government from actually going and doing anything about it.

QFT but it still was a poor decision from my point of view I suppose.

Oirthir

edanto wrote:

and OP, why do you think they have thrown in the towel? RTV are working in the same building as me and Paddy told me yesterday that this could be a movement that takes half a decade to become established.

Well, I think they've thrown in the towel for this Election.

Their stated aim was to increase the turnout. They just said the turnout was actually going to drop.

The PR is akin to one of the major political parties saying "Oh well, we're not going to win this election, cause none of our supporters are going to vote."

Stargal

Oirthir wrote:

Well, I think they've thrown in the towel for this Election.

Their stated aim was to increase the turnout. They just said the turnout was actually going to drop.

The PR is akin to one of the major political parties saying "Oh well, we're not going to win this election, cause none of our supporters are going to vote."

No, it's a lot more like a candidate suggesting that they're in danger of losing their seat and need all the support that they can get to retain it, in order to make sure that people do turn out and vote.

There was a full page ad in today's Irish Times for the Rock the Vote campaign, so I'm guessing this was just another part of the campaign to make sure that people get out and vote on Thursday.

Hotblack Desiato

Rock The Vote muppet wrote:

Only 25 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds in Ireland voted in the last election

Well, duh, possibly that could be to do with the fact it was five years ago and most of them weren't 18 then :rolleyes:
Most. Stupid. Use of Statistics. Ever.

ullu

ninja900 wrote:

Well, duh, possibly that could be to do with the fact it was five years ago and most of them weren't 18 then :rolleyes:
Most. Stupid. Use of Statistics. Ever.

It obviously means people who were 18-24 at the time, people who would now be 23-29.

mikemac

stepbar wrote:

On another point, FF spent 12 mil overhauling the voting register and yet there's still people getting two polling cards. For god sake how hard can it be to attach your right to vote to your PPS number?

It's a good point. Another example is why didn't they update the register at the same time as the census.

It comes down to government departments not sharing information for a few different reasons like confidentiality

Victor

ullu wrote:

It obviously means people who were 18-24 at the time, people who would now be 23-29.

Actually, there are now more people in their late 20s than their early 20s so they are wrong.

Hotblack Desiato

ullu wrote:

It obviously means people who were 18-24 at the time, people who would now be 23-29.

D'oh! it was reported on the radio as saying "most 18-24 year olds have never voted" which isn't exactly surprising - local and Euro elections don't exactly set the pulse racing for most people.

ullu

Victor wrote:

Actually, there are now more people in their late 20s than their early 20s so they are wrong.

What do you mean? I took the quote in the article to mean that in the last election, 25% of the 18-24 year olds at the time voted. Am I missing something?

edanto

Maybe Victor was referring to the throwaway point that was made in the original article ("we have never had so many people in the 18-24 bracket") - but either way it doesn't seem so important.

thebman

stepbar wrote:

Calling the election for a Thursday was a poor decision on Bertie's part.

Yeah because Bertie thought it would be good for voter turn out and it was a genuine mistake on his part :rolleyes:

It is essentially about as close as he could come to riggin the election without the help of the electronic voting systems.

Crash

A student vote odds on wouldnt be a fianna fail vote - so its great for them.

However after USI and the various Students Unions around the country making a serious drive to get students registered to vote before christmas, and the time I put in on that, I feel its a kick in the teeth. Why even try when its all conspired against us sometimes. ah well.

Dyr

Why is it called rock the vote anyway? its a stupid, desperate attempt to be rad and down with the yoof choice of name, Michael Stipe probably came up with it originally.

Is is possible for an election to be void if a certain percentage doesn't turn out?

it absolutely should be. :mad:

BTW did anything happen with the possibility that many dublin constituencies were above the limit set in the constitution for TDs per head of population

b3t4

They spend e12 million to update the register???? To say I'm fumming is an understatement. 12million!!!! What the he-ll did they spend that on?

I could of got two polling cards had I not rang the cork office to tell them that I was now registered in Dublin.

I'll be taking all statistics that relate to the percentage of voters with a huge pinch of salt.
A

panda100

&#231 wrote: »

A student vote odds on wouldnt be a fianna fail vote - so its great for them.

However after USI and the various Students Unions around the country making a serious drive to get students registered to vote before christmas, and the time I put in on that, I feel its a kick in the teeth. Why even try when its all conspired against us sometimes. ah well.

UCDSU did a fantasic job this year in getting students onto the register.In my class alone we got 30 people on the register who'd never been on it before.
However,I have to admit I know the best of intentions are behind the rock the vote camapign but I think its the most patronising thing I have ever seen in my life!Rossanna davidon and Katy French telling me to rock the vote. Young people are not stupid we dont need a miss world and underwear model to entice us young females into voting.If anything It outs me off voting.
My vote is in Limerick so wont make it down today as had an exam this morning and am college tommorow.Really wanted to vote though!

chopperbyrne

So why did you stay registered in Limerick?

Why not register in Dublin?

Crash

Yeah I know Panda, I was amazingly happy to see the number of people who turned out to register themselves - stopped me getting angry over student apathy for the billionth and one time.

Rock the vote has done good things and bad things - mycandidate.ie is the best thing to come out of it in my eyes.

upmeath

chopperbyrne wrote:

So why did you stay registered in Limerick?

Why not register in Dublin?

It's easier said than done, most students in Dublin knew nothing about this option until about 3 days before the deadline. I only found out around the 6th of May, but luckily I was finished and able to move home in time to vote in my home constituency. My 2 housemates (Mayo and Waterford) weren't so lucky and are still in the middle of exams.
I really have to commend UCD SU on the effort they made earlier this year, I couldn't get over how much encouragement my colleagues needed to register though, the SU literally had to set up camp in our school for the day, tell us about the campaign and even offering sweets just to get students to register. And from what I could see it worked, but it really shouldn't take that much effort.
As for the naming of the campaign, as far as I know it's a non-profit independent organisation which originated in the US in the early 1990s, so it's not a matter of some marketing company somewhere in Dublin 2 being hired by Fianna Fáil and told to make voting trendy for students, it's an international and independent initiative, it's not unique to Ireland.

edanto

Yeah they did a great job on being non-partisan.

As far as the turnout percentages go, we can't really tell what they mean at all this time. What with the hundreds of thousands of RIPs taken off it (so, the turnout goes up, right?) and then a variety of 'clerical errors' (do these people use crayons and toilet roll!?!?) making voting cards a bit of a lottery (fermi might say that the doubles and the misses cancel each other out)... it's just impossible to be sure of that stat.

I wonder if RTV had any influence on what panda100 said was happening out at UCD? Did the SU do the same thing at the last election?

simu

Bambi wrote:

Why is it called rock the vote anyway? its a stupid, desperate attempt to be rad and down with the yoof choice of name, Michael Stipe probably came up with it originally.

QFT

Crash

Edanto: the UCD and TCD SU drives were a USI organised drive to get students registered to vote. was well before rock the vote attempted to take off anyhow.

edanto

Yeah, now that ya mention it, I vaguely remember the USI doing something when I was at dcu years ago.

Just saw some of the posters and releases on the USI site, looks like a well organised campaign.

Crash

It was incredibly well run actually - even if there was a tiny bit of a ****up on information pertaining to it at one point. The USI eastern area officer was a huge help for TCDSU actually - including manning a stand a couple of times.

nesf

upmeath wrote:

It's easier said than done, most students in Dublin knew nothing about this option until about 3 days before the deadline.

This might come across as harsh but it's a person's own responsibility to check out these things. If you are old enough to vote you are old enough not to have your hand held. I have sympathy for people who didn't manage to get registered but if they really cared about voting they should have checked this out long before the election, like during the big "are you on the electoral register" campaign.

ninty9er

What Nesf said^^^

A polling station attendant said it to me too....turnout at her box was 72% out of an area of young couples and growing families. She had turned away 4 people that had moved house and weren't on the register. She said it was their own fault for not checking they were on it.

Ógra FF, Young FG and Young Greens all did a postsal registration drive at UL, only FG and Greens did theirs too late. I stood in the courtyard outside the Students Union, next to the only shop in the middle of campus and the main ATM and less than 50 people took forms in the 3.5 hours I was there....quite obviously putting the idea of a postal vote before them....I know at least 5 people who used postal votes yesterday. Meanwhile all of the bar staff lastnight told the PDs to get real that "I'm voting Fianna Fáil" which really put a smile on my face:D

Anyway I have a count to be at at 8am...bed time methinks

John_C

nesf wrote:

This might come across as harsh but it's a person's own responsibility to check out these things. If you are old enough to vote you are old enough not to have your hand held.

I agree to an extent but we only found out that the election would be on a weekday when it was called. It's unreasonable to expect someone who lives in 2 places to try to second guess Bertie and predict where they'll be when he heads up to the Áras.

If it was a simple case of a few people being inconvenienced or being lazy I'd agree more but a reasonably big portion of the electorate had to jump through akward hoops to get the vote and if they all did, there's no way the county councils would have coped so I think it's fair to blame the system here.

cooperguy

I know alot of people im college who did not have the chance to vote. Not only was it called mid-week but it was called during examtime in alot of colleges. Is there a reason im missing that legislation cannot be passed saying that elections have to be carried out on a weekend? The government are always claiming they want to increase voter turnout, this is a gauranteed way to do it. Its not just college students that are effected by this plenty of people work far from where they are registered to vote.

And as other people have mentioned, Rock the vote is a cringe worthy name for the campaign. And im supposed to be the target of the campaign !!

Crash

Simply put, I doubt that a high student turnout would be advantageous to the current government. So why call it at a weekend?

Hotblack Desiato

John_C wrote:

I agree to an extent but we only found out that the election would be on a weekday when it was called. It's unreasonable to expect someone who lives in 2 places to try to second guess Bertie and predict where they'll be when he heads up to the Áras.

:rolleyes: So register in Dublin then and if the election turned out to be a weekend (and every single political correspondent predicted that it wouldn't) stay up in Dublin for one weekend... is there some law I don't know about which states that the big bag of washing has to be brought home to the mammy every single weekend?
As someone posted earlier, and quite rightly, if you're old enough and mature enough to vote you don't need your hand held.

Awayindahils

&#231 wrote: »

Simply put, I doubt that a high student turnout would be advantageous to the current government. So why call it at a weekend?

Students wern't the only people disenfranchised by the calling of a mid week election. Even with being open till 10.30 last night for people who commute long distances for work it was highly disadvantageous. Alot of commuters are long gone by 7.30 in the morning and we all know the amount of stuff that needs doing in the evenings. It's been said over and over again how the mid week election is out of step with the needs of several groups of people though apperently once you're elected you get to stop listening.

RainyDay

Bambi wrote:

Is is possible for an election to be void if a certain percentage doesn't turn out?

it absolutely should be. :mad:

That's like saying the beatings will continue until morale improves. Are you seriously proposing to rerun elections when party coffers and party workers are exhausted, so less advertising, less canvassing - and you hope to get a better turnout next time round.