Battle of the blinds

Flushdraw

Playing the Waterford Open and this hand happened against Dave Masters. I'd just been moved to his table and lost a 25k pot in the 4th hand i played when my turned straight lost to a rivered flush so i'm on about 28k and a little tilty

I know Daves game quite well and he knows mine. Daves in seat 10 and i'm in seat 1 so we cant see each other. Little bit of history from earlier orbits

I've been at the table for 3 orbits. Dave has limped from the CO and i raised from the button with 43. He CRmeAI on a J45 board and i folded. On the next orbit, i CRhimAI with J8 on a J95 board.

Next orbit its folded to Dave in the SB. Blinds are 300/600. Dave has 33k and i have 22k and he says "Tony, because its you, i'm going to limp". I say "Dave, because i like you, i'm going to raise" and i make it 3600. He then pushes allin. I have A10.

Fold or call?

pok3rplaya

I call. I also play cash games.

carfax

Flushdraw wrote:

Next orbit its folded to Dave in the SB. Blinds are 300/600. Dave has 33k and i have 22k and he says "Tony, because its you, i'm going to limp". I say "Dave, because i like you, i'm going to raise" and i make it 3600. He then pushes allin. I have A10.

Fold or call?

Might sound a bit strange but I find a call here (even though stacks are huge compared to blinds) lots of the time...... with the limp raise all in, me thinks he is trying to push me off it.

pok3rplaya

Actually wait no I fold. I didn't think to check the stack sizes. You're getting levelled by a better hand.

Hectorjelly

toss a coin

Flushdraw

pok3rplaya wrote:

Actually wait no I fold. I didn't think to check the stack sizes. You're getting levelled by a better hand.

Do you think that Dave would limp with a hand that has me dominated? How often does he have a weaker ace, an underpair or a worse 10?

Theres roughly 85 left in the tournament at this stage and 50k would put me in the top 10

cooker3

I probably fold.

pok3rplaya

Flushdraw wrote:

Do you think that Dave would limp with a hand that has me dominated?

yes because he knows that you will instaraise his limp with any two, a)because it's good play and b) because of ego because you are mates. He also knows you will be liable to make a hero call.

I've played with him briefly before and I think he likes to mess heads like this.

Flushdraw

pok3rplaya wrote:

yes because he knows that you will instaraise his limp with any two, a)because it's good play and b) because of ego because you are mates. He also knows you will be liable to make a hero call.

I've played with him briefly before and I think he likes to mess heads like this.

Personally i think, that he thinks (here we go!) that the best way of me pushing into the pot would be for him to raise from the SB. He'd probably expect me to go over the top thinking he's at it. I didnt take the limp as trapping or showing strength. He'd been quite aggressive preflop, and i put him on 2 pretty cards that he wanted to see a flop with.

I was talking with him after this hand and he didnt expect me to call him with anything less that AA,KK or QQ. I dont get any particular pleasure in knocking Dave out of tournies, not sure if he does with me though.

I called anyway and he showed KJo.

insafehands

"Hello there! Welcome to Boards.ie Poker forum off-topic post number 182321"

I take it "Battle of the blinds" is a play on words?

"And that's all for now, we'll be back in a few minutes with more!"

nicnicnic

well you know he loves to limp with AK AQ so I probably fold but you also know he is capable of the same play with 25os so I probably still fold because you probably also know the fcuker always hit his rags

Flushdraw

nicnicnic wrote:

well you know he loves to limp with AK AQ so I probably fold but you also know he is capable of the same play with 25os so I probably still fold because you probably also know the fcuker always hit his rags

Never a truer word said Nicky. He must be the biggest luckbox on the irish poker circuit!

pok3rplaya

My main point is that if he isn't limping this hand with the intention of trapping you when he has a good hand then this is a big leak in his game. I believe he is a good player who wouldn't have a leak like this therefore I believe I am getting trapped and so I fold.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

My main point is that if he isn't limping this hand with the intention of trapping you when he has a good hand then this is a big leak in his game. I believe he is a good player who wouldn't have a leak like this therefore I believe I am getting trapped and so I fold.

I dont think this makes any sense, plus Daves play isnt even close to unexploitable.

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

I dont think this makes any sense, plus Daves play isnt even close to unexploitable.

Well whatever if he's a LAGgro fish then raise call ship it. If you know him you can probably answer 10x times better then I can.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Well whatever if he's a LAGgro fish then raise call ship it. If you know him you can probably answer 10x times better then I can.

Its hard now because I know the result, but I think with dave you should usually do whatever it looks like he wants you not to do. In this case you should call. If he just called the raise he is about 10 million times more likely to have AA or KK then when he pushes. However he could well have Ax higher than 10, so whether you call or not depends on what % of the time you think he is pushing as a bluff.

Also, if this was a different player, you can still call here even if a big hand is in his range, it just depends on the %'s.

Edit, hes not laggro fish, but even tight players go a bit mad in the blinds!

ocallagh

I would generally call this, primarily to do Masters head in if we are behind and hit, but also AT is not so bad against anyones limp/push range, especially with those stacks and the dead money in the pot and the history between you two (Your raising range which includes 42o etc widens his pushing range etc). With Masters a limp/call would be a bit scarier in this instance

ocallagh

How did you finish up Tony?

I was so sick after that KK v 99 I went straight back to hotel and slept, and left the next morning!

ianmc38

if dave limped in he more than likely has aces. they're the only two cards he wont raise with

BuChan

wow tough decision, A10 is pretty strong considering the situation. you obviously felt the same. i think you're bound to be right more than 50% here as masters is pretty capable of making this move with a wide range. who won anyway?

HalfBaked

ianmc38 wrote:

if dave limped in he more than likely has aces. they're the only two cards he wont raise with

That's only when he's UTG and UTG+1, it's also AK/AQ a lot when he limps in those positions. I don't think Dave's limp re raising all in with any of the above in this situation.

ollyk1

Masters always wins the "coinflips"! lol at anyone who even bothered to ask....

Tar.Aldarion

I am curious to know what the outcome was. When I played with him and he was on my left he would check and limp with good hands, but sometime rai with the good ole k4..

phantom_lord

he already gave the results, he had kj.

Tar.Aldarion

Oh thanks, missed that, obviously..

58o

I think Flushdraw has a problem letting go of A 10 preflop in tournies. He dogged me with it before as well.;)

Flushdraw

Hectorjelly wrote:

Its hard now because I know the result, but I think with dave you should usually do whatever it looks like he wants you not to do. In this case you should call. If he just called the raise he is about 10 million times more likely to have AA or KK then when he pushes. However he could well have Ax higher than 10, so whether you call or not depends on what % of the time you think he is pushing as a bluff.

Also, if this was a different player, you can still call here even if a big hand is in his range, it just depends on the %'s.

Edit, hes not laggro fish, but even tight players go a bit mad in the blinds!

I posted the result up because i dont think it makes much difference to my decision. If Dave flat calls the raise as HJ says, i'm really worried and unless i flop A10x or 1010x, i can get away from it. I dont put him on a higher A because i'm 90% sure he would raise here. I dont think he slowplays big pairs because he doesnt need to tangle with me at this stage in the tournament for stacks and risk losing his with a slowplay gone wrong.

The fact that its Dave makes the hand more interesting because knowing how he plays makes the call easier because i'm so sure i'm ahead.

ocallagh wrote:

How did you finish up Tony?

I was so sick after that KK v 99 I went straight back to hotel and slept, and left the next morning!

That was a sick hand. How he could call the 5k bet on the flop from you, considering how you were playing was sick. I felt for you big time. The hand agaisnt Masters was my exit hand. I had no luck in the 250 game or the 150 game but had a % of Gus Ivey who finished 6th in the ME and Bottom feeder who won the 150 game so i got both my entry fees back.

Cash games were sick down here. Do many LAGs but the deck was hitting them in the face so it wasnt very profitable for me!

BuChan wrote:

wow tough decision, A10 is pretty strong considering the situation. you obviously felt the same. i think you're bound to be right more than 50% here as masters is pretty capable of making this move with a wide range. who won anyway?

2 jacks on the board and it was all over for me

58o wrote:

I think Flushdraw has a problem letting go of A 10 preflop in tournies. He dogged me with it before as well.

LOL nice one Shane. I think that was the time i called your 3 bet and you had 7 high was it !!

ocallagh

Flushdraw wrote:

That was a sick hand. How he could call the 5k bet on the flop from you, considering how you were playing was sick. I felt for you big time. The hand agaisnt Masters was my exit hand. I had no luck in the 250 game or the 150 game but had a % of Gus Ivey who finished 6th in the ME and Bottom feeder who won the 150 game so i got both my entry fees back.

ul with the AT. It was a great call. It's all well and good discussing it now (especially as we know the result and may be biased), but at the time it was definitely a very tough decision. What was Masters reaction to the call?

The KK hand really annoyed me. His call on the flop was madness, but I knew he would call with anything. I played it very fast on purpose. He mentioned a few times once he gets involved in a hand he doesn't back down so I wanted to get all my chips in as quick as I could. Once I have more than half my stack in preflop and on the flop I'm pushing that turn regardless of what it is. The 9o looked like the most innocent card in the deck:(

58o

Flushdraw wrote:

LOL nice one Shane. I think that was the time i called your 3 bet and you had 7 high was it !!

Sooooted connected 7 hi actually.:cool:

Flushdraw

ocallagh wrote:

ul with the AT. It was a great call. It's all well and good discussing it now (especially as we know the result and may be biased), but at the time it was definitely a very tough decision. What was Masters reaction to the call?

The KK hand really annoyed me. His call on the flop was madness, but I knew he would call with anything. I played it very fast on purpose. He mentioned a few times once he gets involved in a hand he doesn't back down so I wanted to get all my chips in as quick as I could. Once I have more than half my stack in preflop and on the flop I'm pushing that turn regardless of what it is. The 9o looked like the most innocent card in the deck:(

Dave thought my call was horrible and said i should have folded unless i had a huge hand. He said that KP, Halibut and a few others thought we both played it well but i'm not mad about Daves push TBH.

The 99 guy was a strange player. I think you played it perfect and got very ul. Its so sick that he hit the 9, he was like a cardrack all day. I got paid off with AA by him. 2 hands prev i raised with 74s and bet a J104 flop. Checked turn and river and won at showdown against him. I knew this would stay in his mind.

He raised from EP to 1200. I make it 4300 with AA in the BB. He obviously calls . Flop is J98. I make a big deal of counting up my small chips and bet out 8800 leaving a 5k chip behind. He goes allin and i call. He had AJ.

Hectorjelly

Flushdraw wrote:

I dont think he slowplays big pairs because he doesnt need to tangle with me at this stage in the tournament for stacks and risk losing his with a slowplay gone wrong.

Is this what you would do or what you think Dave is thinking? Because it sounds really like the first. Dave slowplays aces more than anyone ive ever come across!

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

toss a coin

And fold regardless of the result

Flushdraw

Hectorjelly wrote:

Is this what you would do or what you think Dave is thinking? Because it sounds really like the first. Dave slowplays aces more than anyone ive ever come across!

It's a bit of both. As he'd been playing aggro, i figured he would still raise from the SB with a hand thinking i'd probably call with ATC given the history. Seems too be a tossup whether its a fold or call and seems neither is the worst in the world.

BigCityBanker

Just read this thread now, FWIW I call here in this spot.

eoin-dubh

was sitting opposite the dealer.......your play turned out to be correct and although you risked your tourney life to double up and put yourself in a fantastic position.......you got muffed and unlucky but well played anyway