need help with small pockets

HA

what way should i be betting with small pocket pairs say below 5 pre flop

shoutman

Ha, without trying to sound smart, I would reccommend picking up some poker books to help you on becoming a better poker player, you will pickup the basics on how to play hands such as small pocket pairs.
Supersystem 2, theory of poker and harrington on hold 'em are all good books for relative beginners.

Playing pocket pairs really all depends on what you are playing and who you are playing against. Is it a deep stack cash game? Is it full ring (9 or 10 handed) or is it shorthanded (6 or less people)
Is it a Tournement, sit and go or a multi table tournement?
Sit and goes (STT + single table tournement) often get short stacked very early on, ie. not a lot of play after the flop. As with all situations, if you are playing low pocket pairs they should be played for set value, ie hoping to hit a third card which matchs the two in your hand. IN STT's early on I try to play them hoping to get a large % of opponents stacks if I hit my set, most of the time if i miss the flop I fold unless I think that the opponent is weak and that I can pick up the pot.
At the later stages of STT's where the blinds are high enoughto effect my stack but not so high that there is only one move of pushing or folding, I tend to just dump low pocket pairs 77 or less.
If you are holding less then 8, 9 or 10 big blinds I tend to go all in with any two cards in an unraised pot for the most part.

With MTT's the same situation applies, In early stages I tend to play low pocket pairs as cheaply as possible hoping to hit my set. When the blinds increase and their are various ranges of players stacks at the table I sometimes play low pocket pairs in different ways. If I am relatively large and the rest of the table is average stacked I still play stts for set value from early position but fold to resistance, in late position It is good to represent a strong hand preflop, if you hit your hand and the flop comes low your opponent may put you on a missed AK, AQ etc and may be looking to take the pot not knowing that you raised with 44 or 55. If the flop comes high you can represent it, poker isnt always about what you have but it is more about what you think your opponent has. Put yourself in his position and try to think what he would do given his situation.

Cash games are generally played deep ie. every on the table has at less 70+ blinds, this way its very rare that a han is played only preflop, ie. you wont see many all ins before the flop like you sometimes do in mtts or sngs.
In cash games I tend to make most of my money off of sets. So once again in early position try to get in cheaply against bad players (because they wont catch on what you are doing) against more experienced and better players you can also represent a premium hand by raising with a low pocket pair in early position, if you hit your set and an opponent who called after you has a good holding it may be pay day for you. Once again in late position you can try representing a high flop as you are the preflop raiser.
But generally small pocket pairs are played exclusively for set value and many people check/fold if they do not hit their set.

Sorry for the ramble but this is a good excuse for not studying.

So in summary.
Play exclusively for set value, early position get in cheap and fold to any resistance preflop, if blinds are high in relation to your stack dont even bother limping as it is not worth it just fold. In late position you can represent a variety of hands but once again it is good to mix things up so opponents can never put you exclusively on this hand.

RedJoker

shoutman wrote:

if blinds are high in relation to your stack dont even bother limping as it is not worth it just fold.

If the blinds get too high, you are better off pushing as you will need to steal some blinds and a pocket pair has good showdown equity if you are called.

shoutman wrote:

Cash games are generally played deep ie. every on the table has at less 70+ blinds, this way its very rare that a han is played only preflop, ie. you wont see many all ins before the flop like you sometimes do in mtts or sngs.
In cash games I tend to make most of my money off of sets. So once again in early position try to get in cheaply against bad players (because they wont catch on what you are doing) against more experienced and better players you can also represent a premium hand by raising with a low pocket pair in early position, if you hit your set and an opponent who called after you has a good holding it may be pay day for you. Once again in late position you can try representing a high flop as you are the preflop raiser.
But generally small pocket pairs are played exclusively for set value and many people check/fold if they do not hit their set.

When playing cash games (6 max) you should raise all pocket pairs preflop from every position, except perhaps from the small blind or big blind with a lot of limpers. I would raise 77+ from every position though.

There are a number of reasons for this. If you miss the flop you may be able to take it down with a continuation bet. If you hit your set then you have a very disguised hand in a raised pot. Since you were the preflop aggressor, you have control over the pot and can size your bets to get maximum value.

When you hit the flop, lead out with your continuation bet, do not slowplay, you will just cost yourself money on future streets because the pot will be smaller. The only time I might slowdown is if I have top set (less likely to be strong hands against me) and the board is dry.

shoutman

RedJoker wrote:

If the blinds get too high, you are better off pushing as you will need to steal some blinds and a pocket pair has good showdown equity if you are called.

Yes I said exactly this further down in that jumble of words of a post.

RedJoker wrote:

When playing cash games (6 max) you should raise all pocket pairs preflop from every position, except perhaps from the small blind or big blind with a lot of limpers. I would raise 77+ from every position though.There are a number of reasons for this. If you miss the flop you may be able to take it down with a continuation bet. If you hit your set then you have a very disguised hand in a raised pot. Since you were the preflop aggressor, you have control over the pot and can size your bets to get maximum value. When you hit the flop, lead out with your continuation bet, do not slowplay, you will just cost yourself money on future streets because the pot will be smaller. The only time I might slowdown is if I have top set (less likely to be strong hands against me) and the board is dry.

I agree with this to a large extent. However I think the latter part of this is very much opponent dependent. I am presuming that the original poster will be playing micro limits, and from my recolection of the micro stakes, many people just check fold if they miss the flop. Therefor if you are playing against a loose weak player there is no point on always continue betting, he will fold if he misses and you get no value from your hand.
For the most part I agree, my post earlier was very muddled and not really thought out, it was more a procrastination effort on my part...

Macspower

RedJoker wrote:

If the blinds get too high, you are better off pushing as you will need to steal some blinds and a pocket pair has good showdown equity if you are called.



When playing cash games (6 max) you should raise all pocket pairs preflop from every position, except perhaps from the small blind or big blind with a lot of limpers. I would raise 77+ from every position though.

There are a number of reasons for this. If you miss the flop you may be able to take it down with a continuation bet. If you hit your set then you have a very disguised hand in a raised pot. Since you were the preflop aggressor, you have control over the pot and can size your bets to get maximum value.

When you hit the flop, lead out with your continuation bet, do not slowplay, you will just cost yourself money on future streets because the pot will be smaller. The only time I might slowdown is if I have top set (less likely to be strong hands against me) and the board is dry.

Agree with the above. I only play 6 max and always raise from any position with pocket pairs. Limping in early position with them is what some will suggest but i strongly disagree as when u hit after limping it is much harder to get paid. If I see a player limp in EP and then call my raise i'm immediately alerted to the possibility of a set and play accordingly. where if you raise with 55 and the flop comes AQ5 and your opp has the A you'll get rewarded well...... but take the opposite for example... you limp from EP and the guy with the A raises... you call and the flop comes AQ5.... from a good player you'll get 1 bet and then the value will be gone.... Just my opinion..

shoutman

I agree macs, ass soon as there is a limp in early position i immediately think pocket pair or sooooooooted connector.

Macspower

Just to add to the above again...... the way I think of it is yo have a small PP. you now have 3 chances to win the pot with them.

1) you raise and win the pot preflop
2) you hit a set on the flop and you probably win the pot (i say prob because you'd want to see my sets! :rolleyes: )
3) you've raised preflop and you miss the flop.. as the agressor preflop you can attempt to take down the pot with a continuation bet.

By limping with them you only have 1 chance of taking down the pot and it's a long shot..

edited to sat that the above only works when you are opening the betting. ifthere is a raise before you I generally call and then it's a case of "set it or forget it"

RedJoker

shoutman wrote:

Yes I said exactly this further down in that jumble of words of a post.

Sorry, my mistake.

shoutman wrote:

However I think the latter part of this is very much opponent dependent. I am presuming that the original poster will be playing micro limits, and from my recolection of the micro stakes, many people just check fold if they miss the flop. Therefor if you are playing against a loose weak player there is no point on always continue betting, he will fold if he misses and you get no value from your hand.

If he folds to the continuation bet he probably won't call a delayed continuation bet on the turn either.

The players you should be playing against (actively searching for) are extremely loose passive, 75, 5 types. They will call with bottom pair, gutshots, a high card if they think you're bluffing, etc. By making a solid bet (2/3 to 3/4 of pot) on each street you will have most of his stack by the river. There is no need to try and trap, he won't raise you if you do, just keep value betting.

If your continuation bet is called, when you have missed, you can check down for a cheap showdown, it's unlikely he'll raise you and you can confidently fold when he does.

shoutman

RedJoker wrote:

Sorry, my mistake.



If he folds to the continuation bet he probably won't call a delayed continuation bet on the turn either.

The players you should be playing against (actively searching for) are extremely loose passive, 75, 5 types. They will call with bottom pair, gutshots, a high card if they think you're bluffing, etc. By making a solid bet (2/3 to 3/4 of pot) on each street you will have most of his stack by the river. There is no need to try and trap, he won't raise you if you do, just keep value betting.

If your continuation bet is called, when you have missed, you can check down for a cheap showdown, it's unlikely he'll raise you and you can confidently fold when he does.

He may call a continuation bet if he hits on later streets, and yes I realise the type of opponents to consider in table selection.

RedJoker

shoutman wrote:

He may call a continuation bet if he hits on later streets, and yes I realise the type of opponents to consider in table selection.

This is true but it is more likely that he hit the flop and will call there and you have no way of knowing this unless you bet.

The table selection thing was for the benefit of OP and others learning, I'm sure you are well aware of what stats to look out for. I was describing the opponent to make my point about value betting over slowplaying.