The ills of modern F1...

Andrewf20

I got into the sport in a big way at the end of 1993. However modern F1 just isnt the same. Heres my take on why:

1) No sense of heroic drivers like the Senna, Mansells, Prosts etc.
2) Loads of crap circuits. The Malaysia, Bahrain, China, USA, Hocekneim circuits are particularly insipid. What the hell did they do to Hockenheim, and the Österreichring with the modifications a few years ago? The tracks years ago were more raw, faster, better. (Brands Hatch, Old Österreichring, Adelaide etc.
3) A lack of Murray Walker and BBC commetary.
4) Cars dont look nice.
5) Racing still not great, however this season doesnt have a clear leader so thats good news.

Interested to hear on other folks thoughts on this. I have to say that Ill be watch lewis Hamilton closely. He could be the next Senna.

Edwardius

Andrewf20 wrote:

I got into the sport in a big way at the end of 1993. However modern F1 just isnt the same. Heres my take on why:

1) No sense of heroic drivers like the Senna, Mansells, Prosts etc.

Well it doesn't look like anyone's going out on a limb anymore because everyone's equally matched, everyone's on the limit and the cars are easier to drive. It's quite conceivable that some drivers have huge stones but that will rarely shine through (with a few exceptions) .When the car isn't set up right you're not going to be fast.

Andrewf20 wrote:

2) Loads of crap circuits. The Malaysia, Bahrain, China, USA, Hocekneim circuits are particularly insipid. What the hell did they do to Hockenheim, and the Österreichring with the modifications a few years ago? The tracks years ago were more raw, faster, better. (Brands Hatch, Old Österreichring, Adelaide etc.

Malaysia??!! I'll agree the USGP is a bit cack (apart from the wall o' death) but the rest of them are pretty good when other racing formats are involved. It's the nature of the modern f1 car to stifle good racing. The circuits mentioned wouldn't lend themselves to f1 because of their fast and flowing nature screwing with aerodynamics of the guy behind and are more sutied to motorcycles. However nothing would look better than a modern f1 car steaming into paddock-hill!

Andrewf20 wrote:

3) A lack of Murray Walker and BBC commetary.

Agreed. A pox be on James Allen's house and his stupid fat head. He's a **** of the highest order. Murray was great though and everything about him from his enthusiasm to his outlook on life were just brilliant!

Andrewf20 wrote:

4) Cars dont look nice.

That's a subjective one. I kinda like the jet fighter look but could understand someone who thinks they're over-elaborate.

Andrewf20 wrote:

5) Racing still not great, however this season doesnt have a clear leader so thats good news.

Interested to hear on other folks thoughts on this. I have to say that Ill be watch lewis Hamilton closely. He could be the next Senna.

Lewis is an interesting fish. From the way commentators go on he got into a racing car for the first time in march. In reality he was groomed for racing from the age of about twelve or less and has been headbutting his way around in the lower series for years. Savage driver though and I was really rooting for him until the allen and co. hijacked him and inflated him to the ranks of ghandi etc. It's just james allen and his nasal crap.:mad:

BrianD3

No sense of heroic drivers like the Senna, Mansells, Prosts etc.

I'd agree somewhat although there is a tendency to glorify past drivers and say that modern ones don't compare. I think it's fair to say that modern drivers may be very good but also that they don't have much character about them. There are no Gerhard Bergers or Nelson Piquet equivalents in modern F1. Senna, Mansell, Alesi, Prost etc. were also big characters even if in Mansell's case I couldn't stand the guy's moaning off the track!

Loads of crap circuits. The Malaysia, Bahrain, China, USA, Hocekneim circuits are particularly insipid. What the hell did they do to Hockenheim, and the Österreichring with the modifications a few years ago? The tracks years ago were more raw, faster, better. (Brands Hatch, Old Österreichring, Adelaide etc.

Times change and many of the old circuits were inefficient when it came to getting spectators in. Look at the old Hockenheim - the vast majority of the track was just surrounded by trees. Spectators were crammed into the stadium section with no view of the fast part of the track. Better to watch on TV so. If every track looked like old Hockenheim, F1 might not have survived as it just wouldn't be setup for spectators.

There's also the danger aspect. In modern society almost everything is made safer and safer. I was actually amazed how long the old Hockenheim stayed on the F1 calender. There was a real sense of danger on the first laps with 20+ cars a few feet apart piling down between the trees at 200+ mph. With danger comes excitement but how do you balance it so that there is acceptable risk.

A lack of Murray Walker and BBC commetary

Like many sports F1 has changed and is more about money than ever before. The ITV coverage reflects this. It is far more slick, expensive and commercially oriented than the BBC's coverage ever was. This is probably a necessity these days. Also the BBC coverage was quite haphazard. Eg only in later years were all races shown live

Cars dont look nice.

One thing I'll say is cars look a lot less "macho" than they used to. A lot of this is due to narrower track and tyres. Compare a 2007 car to a 1992 one and see a big difference. Then look at seventies cars and notice even more of a difference with the massive rear tyres.

Racing still not great, however this season doesnt have a clear leader so thats good news

For as long as I can remember F1 has been quite processional with not much passing. There is often one dominant team and driver(s) So I wouldn't say that it's worse these days. It may even be better.

One thing I'll add that you didn't include - reliability. Again, it is part of modern F1 that engines have to be made reliable to keep costs down. But unreliability meant entertainment and unpredictability. Nowadays if someone is in the lead at the first corner and has a good strategy for the race, there is a very good chance they will win. 10-15 years ago or during the Turbo era especially it was far less certain as their engine could easily destroy itself in a spectacular explosion after a few laps or on the last lap!.

Also, passing backmarkers is less of a lottery these days and there is a more organised system of blue flagging and penalties. Things were more laid back in the past. Backmarkers would often hold the leaders up and sometimes take them out, again this added some unpredictability.

Less variety of teams too. In 1989-1990 there were nearly 40 cars competing for 26 grid slots. Now most of these teams were poor but there was good competition for getting through pre qualifying and qualifiying. The odd time, teams such as Onyx and Dallara would actually score points. This would be unheard of today. Minardi were also quite a succesful team back then, On one occasion a car qualified on the front row and there were other good qualifying performances too and several 4th place finishes.

Variety of engines with their own strengths and weaknesses is another point. A few years ago we had V12s, V10s and V8s. There were some oddballs like the Life W12 and Subaru's Flat 12 engine. Before that in the turbo era there were a mix of non turbo engines, 4 cylinder turbos, V6 Turbos and even a V8 turbo (Alfa Romeo) Before that Ferrari were using a Flat 12 when almost everyone else used Ford V8s. Etc.

Running Bing

In my view there are two major problems in F1 at the moment and they are

A) Faster cars/drivers cannot overtake slower cars/drivers.

Traction control letting drivers stamp on the throttle the minute they leave a corner and tidying up all their imperfections. Whats the point?




If you watch an F1 race though the only time any actual racing gets done between the first 6 or 7 cars is on the first lap. After that any change in positioning is either down to the pits or an accident. Its ridiculous.



I think it is a shame becuase f1 is in a good position now with four drivers who can challenge for a WDC and some very talented young drivers (Kubica, Rosberg, Kovaleinin, Hamilton).



Some real positive changes need to be made instead of fannying about with stupid things like stripes down the middle of tires:rolleyes: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

steviec

It's the risk vs reward balance that's killing it.

Overtaking has always been difficult, but that can be overcome and most races this Season we've seen plenty of good racing towards the back.

However, up at the front, we've got a points situation that punishes the slightest mistake and gives very little reward for great performances - see how Massa is trailing the others despite his two wins, because he basically pushed too hard in Malaysia aswell as having gearbox problems in Australia. See how Alonso has fallen behind his team-mate because he dared to have a go at Massa at Barcelona last weekend.

The points system needs to go back to the old format, and they need to get rid of the two race per engine rule. Drivers should be thrashing the cars for the whole race, Formula 1 should be more about speed than endurance but it simply isn't at the moment.

If you fix that, the rest will come. Overtaking is difficult but possible, and we have a grid of very talented drivers, it's just not worth showcasing their skills when its been clear recently that consistency is far more important than putting in great drives and taking risks.

rccaulfield

I agree f1 is mind numbing at the moment after being a huge fan ive slowly gone off it and switched to moto GP its very very dramatic and quick with last lap battles etc everything motor racing should be!

thegoth

Seconded steviec.

I think they need to get rid of the Barcelona track. Its generally one of the worst gps of the year.

They also need to remove alot of aero from the cars and recoup the loss in speed by putting on big slick tyres, widen the cars, and get back to proper 900bhp V10 or V12 engines.
Widening the cars would not be much of a problem as all the newer tracks are much wider than in 97 when they reduced the width of them

TC and any form of launch control also needs to be banned

I dont think I would be a fan of a push to pass button, like used in champ car, but would be willing to have it trialed.

Running Bing

thegoth wrote:

Seconded steviec.

I think they need to get rid of the Barcelona track. Its generally one of the worst gps of the year.

They also need to remove alot of aero from the cars and recoup the loss in speed by putting on big slick tyres, widen the cars, and get back to proper 900bhp V10 or V12 engines.
Widening the cars would not be much of a problem as all the newer tracks are much wider than in 97 when they reduced the width of them

TC and any form of launch control also needs to be banned

I dont think I would be a fan of a push to pass button, like used in champ car, but would be willing to have it trialed.

Agree with all that(although I wouldnt be mad on a push to pass button).



I was watching a series on eurosport the weekend called formula masters. It was some of the most entertaining racing I have ever seen. Two cars finished 2nd and 3rd within a nose cone of each other. Why is this series so competitive and Formula 1 is a procession/pit crew race?

Andrewf20

rccaulfield wrote:

I agree f1 is mind numbing at the moment after being a huge fan ive slowly gone off it and switched to moto GP its very very dramatic and quick with last lap battles etc everything motor racing should be!

I watched the bike racing a few times and it was very entertaining. I remember watching Indycars from 1995-1998 when I had Eurosport and there was great racing with that series also. I wouldnt mind the idea of an F1 race on an Oval circuit. Worked well with Indycars, but Nascar bore's me to tears.

O, heres a wild idea, next year, host an F1 GP at the 37 mile Isle of Man TT circuit. Brilliant idea.

Edwardius

Andrewf20 wrote:

host an F1 GP at the 37 mile Isle of Man TT circuit. Brilliant idea.

Ha, with the gravel and chicanes needed for that the whole ****ing island would be covered.