Climbing poll - spinning or grinding?

Trojan

After reading KRs thread there about getting a new cassette I was wondering how people prefer to climb.

If you post your level or experience (i.e. are you a competive racer or weekend warrior) that'd help gauge - I reckon the more experienced guys will do more spinning. I also suspect body weight and muscle strength are a factor (heavier == grinders).. opinions?

milod

nah, I'm heavy - 181cm 95kg and I prefer spinning - I only grind if I'm in danger of slowing down too much and falling off the bike...

crashoveroid

I race and would prefer hills im 6ft tall weigh about 10.5 stone and have a bmi 18.5 and much prefer a good long 10% climb to a sprint

blorg

It generally depends on the size of the hill, short ones I will stand and power up (on road bike) while longer ones I will sit and spin in a low gear. Loaded touring, I will only stand if it's a _really_ short hill.

Found an interesting article here how to climb hills.

EDIT: skill level would be long-term and highly active but non-competitive cyclist. I would have expected heavier cyclists to spin more, not less, e.g. to almost never stand. I know I didn't stand when I was heavier (both bike and person) and am far less likely to do so loaded.

Quigs Snr

I was a distance cyclist, did a lot of hills in last years etape, back then I span a lot, weight about 62kg. Speed wasn't a factor, but I got up most hills at a fair lick and did well on club training rides.

Fast forward a year, and not too many miles in the legs, I have started doing a little racing and am finding myself grinding, I am heavier now at about 67kg, so definitely struggling more on the hills, I am finding that if I spin, my heart rate is flying up and I just lose too much speed, on the other hand, grinding is keeping me in there, but causing some serious muscle fatigue for a little while after. I suspect my problem (apart from my fitness being down and carrying a little weight), is technique, I need to strike a mid point or simply, just go and practice spinning at race pace. To that end I have gotten myself a nice Polar CS400 computer which should help me figure out whats going wrong on these hills.

DirkVoodoo

I'm a light cyclist, as in frequency and mass, but I prefer "spinning" as I find grinding more strenuous on my knee joints.

Civilian_Target

Commuter cyclist here but I still climb some pretty steep hills. I always spin. It gets you breathing heavy but ultimately its less tiresome than grinding.

I'm 6'5", ~85kg and cycling a hub gear hybrid, usually loaded with 5-10kg on the panniers.

noieralc

Excuse the stupid question, I'm still using stabilisers I'm such a novice:rolleyes: , but what exactly is spinning, and what exactly is grinding?
I'm guessing spinning is using a low gear and pedalling easily but fast?

Raam

Daily commuter with weekend excursions to Wicklow

I can spin up the less severe, shorter hills (parts of Howth) but when I hit the real steep parts (top of Sally Gap, all of Slieve Mann) or any really long hill, I find myself spinning less as I'm not really able for it. At that stage I'm always on my easiest gear anyway, so the only way to spin would be to give extra effort. But that would mean that I'd be knackered for the rest of the ride.

In general I try keep my cadence over 95, but I only achieve that on the flatter and downhill parts. All my trips out to Wicklow seem to result in an average of 80. I'm working on it

Edit: I'm 6'3" and weigh slightly over 11 stone, and I love going up the super steep parts! (only part of my rides that I can beat my training buddy, he kicks my ass for the rest of it)

el tel

I prefer spinning when I can, although like King Raam I find that a grind usually ensues on the really steep bits. I'm 5'9 and 63kg so spinning suits me well, on the flat I try keep it at 100rpm or above.

Slightly O/T but yesterday evening took a drive through Stepaside to Glencullen and up through the hills and back down to town via Rathfarnham. Apart from the dodgy surface in places, it's a brilliant route to have so close to the city. It was great to see so many riders out, both male and female. So far I have been reluctant to bring my bike to Dublin but I think I might now.

Covenline

I sit in the sadle and spin, only grinding if Im going to slow and im goingto stop or fall off.

Been cycling properly a year now, 20 miles 3 or 4 times a week

daymobrew

noieralc wrote:

I'm guessing spinning is using a low gear and pedalling easily but fast?

Correct.
I'm a spinner. Happy to drop to my lowest gear on my triple and keep seated. I too try to keep the cadence up around 90rpm.

Alkers

Off-road you can't get away with grinding, any technical accents and you'll need to be spinning. Don't do much "climbing" on road.

noieralc

Still trying to figure out what grinding is, so I've been watching what I do on hills the past week.

Generally before the hill I go into a slightly harder gear(gear up?) and push harder then as I go up the hill I gradually click into easier gears(gear down?) but keep pushing at the same pace for as long as I can(maintaining 'cadence'?)

So, am I spinning or grinding? And am I getting the vocab right?:o !

Just swapped my mountain bike for a racer, and I'm loving it(aside from the increased delicateness of the saddle area!!:( )

Raam

Generally a lower cadence is grinding, whereas a higher cadence is spinning.

The general advice is to try and keep your cadence as constant as possible. I try and keep mine at 90 - 95 rpm, but I don't always achieve that when going up hill.

Have a read of this...

http://www.bv.com.au/join-us/30320/

P

noieralc

Aaaah, thanks for that King Raam. I think from what that article says I may be a bit of a grinder. But now, I'll go out and practice my spinning. I think it's a psychological thing, where I feel like I must be doing better if it's killing me doing it!!
Mental note to self: spinning is good, spinning is good, spinning is good....

da_deadman

I'd also be a spinner on the hills. And the longer the ride goes on, the more I'll be out of the saddle on the climbs (of course I have always preferred climbing out of the saddle - makes me feel like I'm on Alpe d'Huez or the Tourmalet ).

I always found grinding would take too much effort and it would take a while to recover after the climb. My legs would be empty way too soon, so it's always a smaller gear and higher cadence for me.

- btw I'm 1.81m and 62/63kg and I'm a weekend warrior, getting out for a few hours every Sunday morning.

Membrane

da_deadman wrote:

I'd also be a spinner on the hills. And the longer the ride goes on, the more I'll be out of the saddle on the climbs (of course I have always preferred climbing out of the saddle - makes me feel like I'm on Alpe d'Huez or the Tourmalet ).

I always found grinding would take too much effort and it would take a while to recover after the climb. My legs would be empty way too soon, so it's always a smaller gear and higher cadence for me.

Doesn't standing also cause your cadence to drop and tire you out too quickly? (does for me)

Raam

Membrane wrote:

Doesn't standing also cause your cadence to drop and tire you out too quickly? (does for me)

I've read that you should give yourself a harder gear when standing than when sitting. Standing always tires me out a lot more than sitting, but for the really steep climbs (Slieve Mann), I find that I've no option but to stand! It's either that or fall sideways with the slowness.

Membrane

King Raam wrote:

I've read that you should give yourself a harder gear when standing than when sitting.

I select one gear higher before standing (using a 13-15-17-19-... cassette).

King Raam wrote:

Standing always tires me out a lot more than sitting, but for the really steep climbs (Slieve Mann), I find that I've no option but to stand! It's either that or fall sideways with the slowness.

Afaics this is caused by having the wrong gearing, 39F/25R isn't going to cut it on the steeper bits.

I've never understood why so many people use "standard" double's. I can't fathom why not more people opt for a triple, standing or grinding to get over steep inclines noticably reduces my ability to do mid and long distance rides.

da_deadman

I think (from what I read once upon a time) part of the reason standing could tire you out quicker is because it is more demanding physically for your upper body. Thereby placing demands on both your leg and upper body strength. I don’t know if it is because I have always done it that way or not, but I can generally stay 'fresh' with long(ish) periods of time climbing out of the saddle when others may prefer to stay sitting.

For me, if I was grinding up a hill I could very quickly run out of energy and would suffer for it after the climb but I find it better to spin a low gear and have long periods out of the saddle – maybe changing up one gear when out of the saddle, as Membrane suggests.

I’m shortly moving over to Edinburgh and with all the hills around there I’ll definitely need to make sure I’m climbing as energy efficiently as possible.

DirkVoodoo

makes sense. If your standing then your legs are doing work but also supporting the weight that the saddle was.

rubadub

I grind most of the time with the intention of giving my legs an equivalent workout as lifting weights (i.e. resistance training). I only do it for short lengths of time, and usually rest at the top knackered (i.e. it is like doing repetitions of weights until exhaustion). I have heard too much high geared cycling is bad for the knees. If I never get to the stage where I could not balance when spinning- I would be off and walking at that stage, walking faster than I could move on the bike.

If you are grinding and have upper body strength then when standing out of the saddle you can transfer this strength to the legs, pulling up strongly on the handlebars. If you just rested your hands open palmed on the handlebars then I imagine the most force you could exert on a pedal would be your bodyweight, I reckon using my arms to pull up on the handlebar that I can exert twice my bodyweight on the pedal. I would be interested if anybody had figures on that, or how you could try and figure it out.

I am 5'11'' about 78kg

Harkev

I find that I grind up hills on the commuter, the gearing on the lowest ring is so low that its much quicker to grind up climbs in the middle ring! The main climb on my commute is up the hill at Mount Anville, from the N11 going towards Clonskeagh on Fosters Avenue.

I haven't had a chance to check out my style on the racer yet, I do know that I never stand up unless I run out of gears.

My main reasons for using a double is weight saving, it makes a fairly big difference... A friend of mine saved about half a kilo by changing a triple to a double.

blorg

Are you sure that wasn't half a pound (e.g. ~227g.) Half a kilo saving sounds excessive, I don't see where it's coming from (one less chainring, slightly narrower BB, short cage rear derailleur.) I'd imagine there is more of a benefit in the shifting simplicity than the weight, unless you are really serious. I have a triple myself but probably would have gone for a compact had the triple not been on a especially good special offer.

uberwolf

daymobrew wrote:

Correct.
I'm a spinner. Happy to drop to my lowest gear on my triple and keep seated. I too try to keep the cadence up around 90rpm.

triple? you better be a mtber

Raam

uberwolf wrote:

triple? you better be a mtber

ooooh, below the belt!

Membrane

uberwolf wrote:

triple? you better be a mtber

Jay! showdown between Blorg on his triple and uberwolf on his double (hopefully a non wussified standard 39-52 & 12-25 double).

Time: Sunday morning @ dawn
Location: climbing Ballinagee hill south of Enniskerry:

Ps, you are Sooooo going to lose uberwolf

Raam

went out on the new cassette (was 12-25 now 12-27) at the weekend. Went over Sally Gap and Wicklow Gap. I gotta say that I found it easier when I threw it into the easier gears. Now the test wasn't exactly scientific and there could have been a "placebo effect" in there somewhere, but I think it was a worthwhile change.

P

Membrane

King Raam wrote:

went out on the new cassette (was 12-25 now 12-27) at the weekend. Went over Sally Gap and Wicklow Gap. I gotta say that I found it easier when I threw it into the easier gears. Now the test wasn't exactly scientific and there could have been a "placebo effect" in there somewhere, but I think it was a worthwhile change.

Ah sure, yer only a kitten. Real pussies ride triples, and if you want to be be a big pussy like me then you'll ride an <shock horror>MTB style triple</shock horror>

Raam

meow!

spiderman1885

Dunno If this is at all relevant, I cycle to school everyday which happens to be a steep hill, Initially i thought the only way was to put it in the max gear and stand and really push myself but for the last 6 months I've dropped a few gears and sat down the whole way up, That way for the straight towards my school i had plenty of energy to accelerate to school, whereas before after the hill i was too tired to accelerate and therefore late for school everyday but the spinning technique kept me on time! So I suppose I recommend spinning!:D

blorg

Did the Wicklow 200 there the other weekend and was very glad to be able to spin up the climbs on my triple. Passed a lot more people with doubles than the other way around. Slieve Maan was the only one I found in any way difficult.

hunnymonster

I'm a grinder and I get teased mesciously abou it. I know all the science says spinning is less tiring but it knackers me. I do have very very strong legs though which may account for the ease at which I grind up hills.




b'ground: I;ve been cycling 2 years for endurance triathlon, I'm short and a bit on the heavy side.

Membrane

hunnymonster wrote:

I'm a grinder and I get teased mesciously abou it. I know all the science says spinning is less tiring but it knackers me. I do have very very strong legs though which may account for the ease at which I grind up hills.

Muscles develop depending on how you use them. Grind and you'll develop short stocky muscles that are able to deliver a lot of power for a relatively short duration. Spinning results in longer muscles that although not capable of churning out loads of power are able to sustain a constant power output for longer.

Compare the muscle structure of a top weight lifter to a top swimmer for example.