Discussion: the donk bet

bubbleking

ok im seeing this more and more in micro/ low-limit NL ring games wouldnt know about higher stakes

hero raises in position
villain calls
villain bets out on flop.

my questions is what is the best way to combat this call/raise/fold??

if its dependant on what you hold then here are a few examples:
-TPTK
-a draw
-an overpair
-a set (not so much as the other 3 as it doesnt happen as often.

thanks in advance for all replies.

PokerPissTaker

Basic enough I think. If you have TPTK you should raise and try to find out where you are.

If you have an OP then either raise or try and call and let him bet the turn and then raise, this depends alot on the player and how much over you pair actually is i.e. 1010 on a 972 board is worth betting a AKQJ9876are all scare cards and could lose you the hand.

A draw? Well I'd call and try to hit and maybe semibluff the turn to try and get him off a medium hand.

A set call and raise the turn for sure or maybe even leave it to the river depending on how the turn affects te board i.e. lots of str cards or 3 to a flush.

Yous Faithfully


The Poker Piss Taker

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ste05

Oh god, unfortunately there's so much wrong with that post PokerPisstaker. I'll try and get around to posting a detailed reply later.

How you react to a donk bet depends hugely on what the flop is like and who the donk bettor is and his/her tendancies, it's another thing I actively look out for when playing a person, along with how he/she plays draws, I also look to see if they donk bet weakly, as alot of the time a donk bet can be a weak informational bet where they'll fold to a raise, and I'll literally raise those people with whatever 2 cards I happened to raise with. Sometimes I'll call to let them donk again if I'm particularly strong, and think they have nothing, but generally I'll raise those players, so it really always depends on who the donk bettor is as well as what we hold.

breadmonkey

LuckyLloyd wrote:

When the donkbet is a minbet or badly sized underbet of the pot - treat it as an essential check and do what you would do as normal if he had checked it to you.

yeah that's the way Ilook at it

PokerPissTaker

Ste05 wrote:

Oh god, unfortunately there's so much wrong with that post PokerPisstaker. I'll try and get around to posting a detailed reply later.

As I forum for opinions I would have though giving mine would be aloud to be posted without having to be insulted afterwards Just what I thought forums were about Must have got it wrong

IHAVEACAT

PokerPissTaker wrote:

As I forum for opinions I would have though giving mine would be aloud to be posted without having to be insulted afterwards Just what I thought forums were about Must have got it wrong

u thnk thats bad u shua seen what was said to me yesterday. its a cold cold world

ocallagh

PokerPissTaker wrote:

As I forum for opinions I would have though giving mine would be aloud to be posted without having to be insulted afterwards Just what I thought forums were about Must have got it wrong

Opinions are of course allowed, such as Steo05's opinion on your theory!

In general though, this is not a forum for having a chat. If bad advice on how to play hands is posted do you not think it should be corrected to avoid others from taking up the advice and losing money? You should encourage criticism on a forum such as the Poker forum where we are all trying to learn more.

I do agree that people can be a little blunt in their critical replies though, but those who are critical are the best posters and I wouldn't want to discourage them.

Captain Tom

PokerPissTaker wrote:

As I forum for opinions I would have though giving mine would be aloud to be posted without having to be insulted afterwards Just what I thought forums were about Must have got it wrong

im sure ste's comments were meant to be constructive rather than offensive even if they were somewhat vague.flaming people for no reason isnt his style.

PokerPissTaker

I play poker sucessfully like ste does I presume so Surely he can post his opinion and then allow people to take what they want from the various replies Without anyone having voice there distain for anothers.

sikes

It means different things to different players. You could find out a donk bet % to know what range of hands they are doing it with and how profitable a call, raise and fold is in different situations.

Similar to a cbet %, if they are doing it all the time we know that raising with air can be profitable in the right situations, if they are never doing we should fold loads.

Ste05

PokerPissTaker wrote:

As I forum for opinions I would have though giving mine would be allowed to be posted without having to be insulted afterwards Just what I thought forums were about, Must have got it wrong

They are, and I don't see how I insulted you, I just said that you were wrong, if that insults you apologies. I suppose I should really give you my reasons, but I didn't want to as we've been down this road so many times before, but I'll go through them quickly now because you are a relatively new poster and I don't know if you've been lurking for years or months before starting to post.

"If you have TPTK you should raise and try to find out where you are. "

Well we shouldn't raise to find out "where we are" there's been loads of threads on this, if someone has a link they might post it here or alternatively maybe use the search facility, I don't really want to go into why at the moment, as we've been up and down that street so many times. I know you're only new to boards and it's unfortunate but I just don't want to go down that road again. Very basically: What's the point of raising to find out where you are, you find out you beat him when he folds and find out he beats you when he raises. You don't allow weaker hands to bluff or continue and you make it easy for better hands to get more money into the pot. Just call him and find out later for cheaper.

Alternatively, raise because you think you have the best hand or that he will fold a better hand, those are basically the 2 main reasons to raise, and informational raises are bad. It's more a mind set and choice of words problem.

"If you have an OP then either raise or try and call and let him bet the turn and then raise, this depends alot on the player and how much over you pair actually is i.e. 1010 on a 972 board is worth betting a AKQJ9876are all scare cards and could lose you the hand."

These reasons are slightly better than the TP comments, but basically TPTK and an over pair aren't really that much different, it depends on the flop texture etc. but if it's draw heavy TP and an OP have basically the same value, although an OP has more value as it's more likely he will stack off with TP himself while trying to protect from draws. (See my last point in this post)

"A draw? Well I'd call and try to hit and maybe semibluff the turn to try and get him off a medium hand."
and
A set call and raise the turn for sure or maybe even leave it to the river depending on how the turn affects te board i.e. lots of str cards or 3 to a flush.

Well these should be related but you seem to be playing them the opposite of how IMO they should be played, I wrote an extensive post on this point in this thread and hopefully that makes my thoughts on the point somewhat clear, but basically we want to get the money in with a set and make them fold with a draw, the best way to do both is to raise them both, not to call with them both.

Calling with a draw is fine if he's giving us nice odds, but to improve the chances of getting paid off when we raise with a set we need to also raise with our draws.

Basically I thought you were wrong because you seemed to have a set play for what you do to a donk bet based on your cards, and IMO you should have a differing approach, firstly I would look at what the flop is like and what type of hands it fits into, does it hit or miss our probable range and similarly with his range, then look at who the better is, does he know what he's doing, is he a rock, is he a good player that knows my game, is he aggressive or passive with draws/big hands, does he over rate TPTK type hands, is he tricky and trappy, etc. etc.

Then we look at what we have and decide on how to act.

pok3rplaya

Damn short posts cause so much troubles. And from a mod no less. sheeesh

Hectorjelly

Yeah I think at the very least ste should do the only honourable thing and kill himself

pok3rplaya

Yep. He has disgraced his family and his pet zebra. Frankly I'm disgusting.

PokerPissTaker

My list of play was basic to explain what to do to an obvious unsure poker player. Obviously the player, the board trapped and allowing the villian to bluff I think is best left til the player has more experience.

Once again just my opinion

bman

pok3rplaya wrote:

Frankly I'm disgusting.

Don't see why that has any relevance And I don't know you so I can't say if your disgusting or not.

Ste05

Sorry chaps, can't help myself today, just in a long posting mood, although you all have a few hours off now as I'm off out now for the night, so enjoy.

*puts mod hat back on*

On topic please...

phantom_lord

you should raise and try to find out where you are.

can we get boards set to that when this phase is typed in it appears in asterisk's, like **** and **** does.