Nice (not)

RoadSweeper

Starting a new hand (#552295248)
Texas Holdem NL $0.10/$0.20 - 2007-05-16 00:00:23 Server
Table Avilla
Seat 1: Ber2NisBer ( $10.01 )
Seat 3: Roadsweep87 ( $30.85 )
Seat 5: stepherson ( $11.41 )
Seat 6: Obelix31 ( $60.34 )
Seat 8: edl51 ( $43.96 )
Seat 10: litnoob ( $16.90 )
litnoob posts Small Blind $0.10
Ber2NisBer posts Big Blind $0.20
Dealing cards
Your cards 7d 7h [Roadsweep87]
Roadsweep87 calls $0.20
stepherson calls $0.20
Obelix31 folds
edl51 calls $0.20
litnoob calls $0.10
Ber2NisBer checks
Dealing Flop 8d 6c 7c
litnoob checks
Ber2NisBer bets $0.20
Roadsweep87 raises $1.20
stepherson folds
edl51 raises $2.20
litnoob folds
Ber2NisBer folds
Roadsweep87 raises $10
edl51 calls $9
Dealing Turn 8d 6c 7c 4c
Roadsweep87 bets $19.45
edl51 calls $19.45
Dealing River 8d 6c 7c 4c 5d
edl51 shows 9h 8c
Winner is edl51 $59.50

I was playing very TAG for about 100 hands.


Villian is a loose NUTTER!


Okay i feel this belongs in the BB sticky.....

...But i'm just wondering

(a) would you check the turn?

(b) would anyone defend the villians play?

Mellor

a) No
b) No

phantom_lord

raise pf.

that's a really really horrible board to be getting your stack in on. maybe even just call the min-raise.

Ste05

I'd also just call the flop min-raise, check call the turn and if that River still fell fold to a push.

EDIT: I'd also raise Pre-Flop, I limp UTG 0% of the time according to my PT stats. I could have quoted P_L with a "." but decided to post a little bit, but he basically said it all.

RoadSweeper

phantom_lord wrote:

raise pf.

that's a really really horrible board to be getting your stack in on. maybe even just call the min-raise.

The table has been unaturally crazy with pf action $3-6$ raises and re-raises and the post flop paly was similar so i felt 77 had great implied odds if i saw a cheap flop.


anyways,

would you not be winning to get the stack in on the flop?


just put villian info in in OP

Ste05

RoadSweeper wrote:

would you not be winning to get the stack in on the flop?

I would, but I'd rather not.

phantom_lord

RoadSweeper wrote:

The table has been unaturally crazy with pf action $3-6$ raises and re-raises and the post flop paly was similar so i felt 77 had great implied odds if i saw a cheap flop.


anyways,

would you not be winning to get the stack in on the flop?

not really, calling the min-raise and c/c the turn sounds better.

bops

RoadSweeper wrote:

(b) would anyone defend the villians play?

TP and OESD on the flop
TP,OESD, and GSSFD on the turn

i've seen a hell of a lot worse!

RoadSweeper

tbh i thought you'd be swaying this way

would you have called?

bops

RoadSweeper wrote:

tbh i thought you'd be swaying this way

the cheek!!

RoadSweeper wrote:

would you have called?

your big reraise on the flop? nah - i would if the stacks were way way deeper - i suppose it's like 100 quid if you were playing 1/2 - i'd want 1200 behind at a guess

RoadSweeper

ah okay


/adds edl51 to buddy list

mewso

phantom_lord wrote:

raise pf.

Ste05 wrote:

I'd also raise Pre-Flop

Whats the plan in raising? How much? Bearing in mind this is micro stakes (what I'm at atm so I'm interested) and you are very unlikely to get a fold from the likes of this villian unless he has you pegged as a tight arse.

phantom_lord

we've a chance to steal blinds, build a pot for when we have a set, and create fe on the flop when we c-bet. plus limping is ghey.

raise to $1 would be standard i think.

The Sheriff 101

Ya open limping is bad raise that [censored] up ring any bells anyone .

Raising with a pp from any position as if you hit your set the pot is bloated so you have a better chance of stacking someone with TP
any their is also a good chance that you can take the pot down with a continuation bet.

Marq

RoadSweeper wrote:

Okay i feel this belongs in the BB sticky.....

that's funny, so do I.

Raise preflop.
At this level I would open-push the flop.

Ste05

musician wrote:

Whats the plan in raising? How much? Bearing in mind this is micro stakes (what I'm at atm so I'm interested) and you are very unlikely to get a fold from the likes of this villian unless he has you pegged as a tight arse.

I raise because it's unlikely we'll be raised and so can play a raised pot where we were the aggressor and with a hugely improved chance of stacking a guy if he hits something (when we hit trips etc.) as the pot will be larger to begin with making it much easier to get his stack in without having to over bet at any stage. It allows us to massage him into putting his whole stack in without worrying about trying to make larger than normal raises (that although unlikely to cause too much alarm to the TP = the nuts brigade down at this level, just might)

It also allows us to possibly steal the blinds and to possibly steal a pot with a continuation bet, if an A falls and he doesn't have one, if we are called after the flop we can just give up, it's just in general a much better action, you just need to keep playing solid poker and you'll fly up through the levels, without having to make too many adjustments to your game apart from just re-assigning ranges to our opponents as we move up.

And I'd probably always raise 4xBB + 1 per limper regardless of my hand, so if we have AA, 77, KQs or AQo we're raising the same if we're raising, it's not to mix up our game it's just to build the pots and at these levels a player like yourself Muso will have a huge edge on your opponents and so you want to be playing large pots when you have something decent and just trust yourself to be able to not bluff calling stations and value bet them to oblivion. But all the time playing bigger pots. Fold everything marginal as there's no need to play those hands for deception just play a tight solid game and honestly you'll rocket up.

Also don't worry about being pegged a tight arse, if they have something they like, they'll stick it in whether you have been playing tighter than a nuns arse or looser than Bops.. . If they don't they won't, and don't worry about them folding TP because they think you are tight, they quite simply won't fold it. Unless possibly if you have an absolute maniacal image in which case they'll call you down much lighter but generally that sort of game isn't really the best way to exploit the players down here.

The Sheriff 101

Ste05 wrote:

I raise because it's unlikely we'll be raised and so can play a raised pot where we were the aggressor and with a hugely improved chance of stacking a guy if he hits something (when we hit trips etc.) as the pot will be larger to begin with making it much easier to get his stack in without having to over bet at any stage. It allows us to massage him into putting his whole stack in without worrying about trying to make larger than normal raises (that although unlikely to cause too much alarm to the TP = the nuts brigade down at this level, just might)

It also allows us to possibly steal the blinds and to possibly steal a pot with a continuation bet, if an A falls and he doesn't have one, if we are called after the flop we can just give up, it's just in general a much better action, you just need to keep playing solid poker and you'll fly up through the levels, without having to make too many adjustments to your game apart from just re-assigning ranges to our opponents as we move up.

And I'd probably always raise 4xBB + 1 per limper regardless of my hand, so if we have AA, 77, KQs or AQo we're raising the same if we're raising, it's not to mix up our game it's just to build the pots and at these levels a player like yourself Muso will have a huge edge on your opponents and so you want to be playing large pots when you have something decent and just trust yourself to be able to not bluff calling stations and value bet them to oblivion. But all the time playing bigger pots. Fold everything marginal as there's no need to play those hands for deception just play a tight solid game and honestly you'll rocket up.

Also don't worry about being pegged a tight arse, if they have something they like, they'll stick it in whether you have been playing tighter than a nuns arse or looser than Bops.. . If they don't they won't, and don't worry about them folding TP because they think you are tight, they quite simply won't fold it. Unless possibly if you have an absolute maniacal image in which case they'll call you down much lighter but generally that sort of game isn't really the best way to exploit the players down here.

nh

mewso

Ste05 wrote:

I raise because it's unlikely we'll be raised and so can play a raised pot where we were the aggressor and with a hugely improved chance of stacking a guy if he hits something (when we hit trips etc.) as the pot will be larger to begin with making it much easier to get his stack in without having to over bet at any stage. It allows us to massage him into putting his whole stack in without worrying about trying to make larger than normal raises (that although unlikely to cause too much alarm to the TP = the nuts brigade down at this level, just might)

It also allows us to possibly steal the blinds and to possibly steal a pot with a continuation bet, if an A falls and he doesn't have one, if we are called after the flop we can just give up, it's just in general a much better action, you just need to keep playing solid poker and you'll fly up through the levels, without having to make too many adjustments to your game apart from just re-assigning ranges to our opponents as we move up.

And I'd probably always raise 4xBB + 1 per limper regardless of my hand, so if we have AA, 77, KQs or AQo we're raising the same if we're raising, it's not to mix up our game it's just to build the pots and at these levels a player like yourself Muso will have a huge edge on your opponents and so you want to be playing large pots when you have something decent and just trust yourself to be able to not bluff calling stations and value bet them to oblivion. But all the time playing bigger pots. Fold everything marginal as there's no need to play those hands for deception just play a tight solid game and honestly you'll rocket up.

Also don't worry about being pegged a tight arse, if they have something they like, they'll stick it in whether you have been playing tighter than a nuns arse or looser than Bops.. . If they don't they won't, and don't worry about them folding TP because they think you are tight, they quite simply won't fold it. Unless possibly if you have an absolute maniacal image in which case they'll call you down much lighter but generally that sort of game isn't really the best way to exploit the players down here.

Cheers Ste and others. So in general you win in the long run

i.e.(amount of times you raise and give up at some point) < (the amount of times you hit your 2 outer and stack player) + (take pot with cbet on flop)

Iago

musician wrote:

Cheers Ste and others. So in general you win in the long run

i.e.(amount of times you raise and give up at some point) < (the amount of times you hit your 2 outer and stack player) + (take pot with cbet on flop)

I'm not convinced that is completely true.

I'm not a believer in open limping either, but I think if you're open raising 4*bb with 77-55(assuming you fold 44-22) from utg at this level then you're building pots out of position against players who generally don't have a fold button. They don't know you've only played 1 hand in the last 20, and they don't remember that the last time you bet big on the flop or turn you were holding the nuts. What they do know is that their hand is shiny, and sure if a diamond lands they'll have 5 of them. If it doesn't then maybe an A will land instead or that 4 they need for their gutshot straight draw.

We also have to lay down the hand to a re-raise quite a lot preflop.

We miss our set at least 8 times out of 10, and probably lose a continuation bet 2-3 times(say around 50% of times we continuation bet on a bad board). Even if we just check/fold on a bad flop we're down 4bbs for each of these hands.

So 2 out of 10 times we'll hit our set on the flop, but at least some of the time when that happens we're behind our outdrawn when the majority of money goes in or quite often our opponent folds to our flop bet.

Whereas if you open limp 88-55 from utg you risk the minimum in those hands, while disguising the times you have hit a big hand and get your opponent to do the betting for you.

Obviously as you move towards co and button you open raise a lot more, but I think UTG you should open limp low pps.