Some zesty Poker Tracker questions!!

5002rpo

I see alot of people posting up info on players with stats from PT like VPIP, PFR etc over a 100hands..... wondering is this anywhere near enough to trust the information? if not how many hands would you need to trust the PT and pahud stats?

Also what percentage of players would you think are using PT and PAHUD at other poker sites at 1/2 and 2/4? Does it vary much amongst poker sites?

sock.rocker*

bump

good question.. wonderin the same thing?

pok3rplaya

I'll start basing decisions on VPIP and PFR after 100ish hands. Other stuff takes longer to converge like folds to continuation bet stats etc. Basically the less frequently an action occurs the more hands it takes to get an accurate representation of the truth.

However I will take notice after even 30 hands. For eg. someone who after 30 hands is 50/35/8 is more likely to be a maniac then the next guy but I'm not gonna bet my life on it.

I'd say it's about 60% are using it. No idea really though.

Brando_ie

As a relatively newcomer to PT (& GT+) I am trying to start at the beginning and get a good grasp firstly on the basic information available and to that end I have found a chart at [url][/url]CLICKIDY CLICK which indicates likely hand ranges (ranges can be found at the link) and is something I have had difficulty concentrating on and relying more on the 'oh look, he has a vp$ip of 11 so that A or K must have hit him right in the face.....d'oh!!'

A Player Plays Hands Up to Full Ring VP$IP 6-max VP$IP Classification
Group 1 4.11-7.11% 8.11-12.11% Very Tight
Group 2 6.37-9.37% 10.37%-14.37% Very Tight
Group 3 8.93-11.93% 12.93-16.93% Tight
Group 4 12.7-15.7% 16.7-20.7% Tight
Group 5 20.09-23.09% 24.09-28.09% Tight/Semi-Loose
Group 6 25.22-28.22% 29.22-33.22% Semi-Loose
Group 7 33.21-36.21% 37.21-41.21% Semi-Loose/Loose
Group 8 43.16-46.16% 47.16-51.16% Loose
Any Two Suited or Worse >47% >55% Extra Loose

My questions are as follows.

1- At what starting number of hands (30ish?) would you start to take serious notice of a justice challenged (villain) opponent? and when would you expect any vp$ip to stabilise and indicate a hand range (100-150?)?

2- A leak of mine is that I seem to be a tight group 4 at full ring and with the general consensus being a group 5 is a preferable vp$ip. How should I go about integrating those extra cards into my range?.... i.e should I be looking to play Q9s similar to how I would play KQ depending on position or is a more subtle approach required?

Primewise

Answering your questions:

1) I think 30+ hands and the VPIP is good enough to work with, though its not "reliable" until the # hands is 150+

2) Deciding what hands to incorporate, you should look at your hand analysis within pokertracker. Incorporate profitable hands more often if you want to loosen up. PT will tell you if Q9s is profitable enough to play it more often.


For postflop aggression factor, I still don’t understand this figure. I think the player needs to have played about 100+ hands before this becomes reliable since the player won’t have seen too many flops/turns until then.

I tend to re-raise people with a high post-flop aggression (higher than 3? ), thinking there is a good chance they are betting with air. However this has cost me a good bit of cash…

Does anyone know if the Pokertracker aggression factor is measured in the same way as the PokerOffice one?

pok3rplaya

Those 6 max numbers look ok. I don't know much about full ring though. I your exact preflop numbers mean much though, it's more to do with what you do with them that matters more then anything else.

sock.rocker*

wat stats do u guys put up in ur hud? one thing havin stats in pokertracker but not sure whats best for the hud...
didnt think even 100 hands wud have been good enuf for vpip but i'll take ur word for it

Primewise

Stats I put up on the hud are:

# hands/ VPIP / PFR / Post flop aggression factor/ went to showdown %

I use Pokeroffice for cash by the way... its good for displaying stats for multitabling. Although its terrible for tournaments because the stats cover the cards when 2 people go all-in.


What do people use for SnG's? Is pokertracker better for that?

sock.rocker*

dunno bout sngs but i know that wit pahud, u can jus edit where everythin goes.. i've 9 stats in for each person but dunno if that many is even needed?

dvdfan

I use for my HUD

V$PIP | PFR | Went To Showdown WSF | WON @ SD | HANDS |
FLOP-TRN% | PF Agg Flp | TRN-RVR% | RVR Agg PF| CONT |

I use this is Poker Office 2 rows of 5
Flop-trn% is the amount of times villain saw the turn when he saw the flop

sock.rocker*

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=63123197wy9.jpg

yellow = number of hands
blue = bb/100
pink = won at showdown
green=vpip
orange=pfr
red=total agression
3 white are aggression on each street

what r peoples thoughts on aggression frequency as opposed to just aggression? whats the difference?

phantom_lord

i remember i added a load of stats, but i realised i never bothered using them, or remembered which was which, so i just went back to the standard four. plus you need huge amounts of hands before some of the extra stats converge to an accurate figure. and by then you shouldn't really need stats to know how he plays.

sock.rocker*

i'm gonna have to see how these ones go, jus setup pahud like 2 days ago. they seem helpful but i'd say i'll end up back wit 4 or 5 aswell.

im lookin thru 2+2 for a thread showin how people adjust their play accordin to the stats but no luck so far..