Should Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth

Dub13

With various people today calling for Ireland to rejoin the Commonwealth what are peoples views on this contentious issue....?I have to be honest I am not sure what benefit's are to be had by any country been in the Commonwealth but maybe thats my lack of knowledge on what been in the Commonwealth is all about.It would of course be a huge gesture to the Unionist people up north and show that we have moved on and matured as a nation.Sometimes things need to been done and maybe their may not be anything in it for us as such.

Also what are the main political party's views on this...?Obviously Sinn Féin and maybe FF would be opposed but I don't recall seen anything about this from other party's.The Unionist community have moved alot over the last few years maybe its time our Government gave a little.

I have to admit I don't have an opinion either way on this as its not something I have given much taught to.

mike65

FF are not all against it you know. Ask Eamon O'Cuiv

Its a club these days but being a member of a club is not necessarily a bad thing. Mozambique joined for that reason.

Mike.

RalphCifaretto

This has to be a pisstake:eek:

InFront

Yes it's been a club for quite a while. people come and go as they choose. I find it hard to believe that the traditional historical impediment to joining outweighs the benefits of joining this kind of international community.

While much of the commonwealth remains severely underdeveloped, the advantage of developing stronger diplomatic and economic links with countries like Australia, N.Z., Canada, Pakistan, India, and Singapore (and obviously the UK) sounds like an opportunity asking to be taken - especially since developing exports is something that this country really needs to work on.

Ireland must be the only European country with eligibility to join who does not exercise this right, surely there is some advantage the Government could garner from that? Would it really be that bad?

Flex

No. I think its great that Ireland and Britain have such great relations today, but Im not revisionist enough to think we should rejoin the Commonwealth. Wouldnt be of much benefit considering how few countries in the Commonwealth are in the EU (Malta and the UK, isnt it?).

I think the real problem is down to the lingering post-colonial mentality in this country (and a little fickleness too tbh), 'Ireland and Britain have good relations today, so hell, lets forget everything that happened in the past and act like we were always the best of friends like good little Paddies', type of thing. Im sure they probably had that attitude in the US for a while too after independence though.

OS119

it does no harm - its pretty cheap - and it would make a million people in the north much happier about RoI involvement in the governance of NI.

it also gives RoI another stage on which to promote its agenda of human rights, good governance, debt relief and anti-poverty action to a more receptive audience than can often be found at the UN. it requires no change to domestic law, political process or anything else.

WRT to history i don't see the issue - or more correctly i see the issue, i just can't understand why you'd let it get in the way - Germany and Poland are both in the EU and NATO - much closer 'clubs' than the commonwealth, yet only 60 years ago Germany murdered 5 million Poles in 5 years, Japan and the US share defence and economic treaties far outstripping the Commonwealth in depth and breadth, yet 60 years ago the US vapourised 100,000 Japanese civilians in 0.2 seconds. short version, get over it.

RalphCifaretto

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. The British Commonwealth is rapidly losing all relevance. It is the manifestation of Britain's desperate refusal to let go of its crumbling empire. This is the Empire that occupied, raped and pillaged this Island. The empire that's bloody legacy is still on display for all to see.

It's absolutely despicable to think that Irish society has gotten to the point where people are happy to give anything away for a few quid(the economic benefits of joining the commonwealth are questionable at best), including their dignity, pride and the memory of all those who gave everything to resist british imperialism.

dragonkin

No major problem with it really anything that brings better relations between north and south at almost no cost or trouble is a good thing. We could compete in the Commonwealth games too.

Fratton Fred

It would be a good symbolic gesture, as already said, but other than a really good mini olympics every few years, I'm not sure what the Commonwealth does these days.

That said, there are countries who do not have automatic right to join, trying to join:rolleyes:

if it did ever happen (and I can't see it mself) it would be the hatchet well and truly buried between our two countries.

Filan

How long will the Common Wealth survive? The trend in recent years has been for countries seeking to leave or am I mistaken? Australia for example? The Queen is the head of state of Australia...a woman at the other end of the planet!..I love the U.K...think it has better politicans than we do!..and a great place in other ways too..but well how would it benefit us in practical terms besides Queen being our Head of State?.

As a side point how long do readers believe that the Common Wealth is likely to survive?

brianthebard

Flex wrote:

No. I think its great that Ireland and Britain have such great relations today, but Im not revisionist enough to think we should rejoin the Commonwealth.

Define revisionist please??

Jesus Wept

RalphCifaretto wrote:

This has to be a pisstake:eek:

Agreed.

I'd rather die than assosiate myself with the Lizard Queen Of England.

sceptre

Filan wrote:

How long will the Common Wealth survive? The trend in recent years has been for countries seeking to leave or am I mistaken? Australia for example? The Queen is the head of state of Australia...a woman at the other end of the planet!

The trend has been for countries to join or rejoin. Meanwhile if Australia became a republic (if that happens, opinion polls now show the lowest level of support for it in years) it wouldn't mean it had to leave the commonwealth - out of 47 members, only 16 have QEII as head of state.

RalphCifaretto

The trend has been for countries to join or rejoin.

Which is entirely irrelevant. It is widely accepted fact that the British Commonwealth is rapidly becoming less important, both politically and economically.

A Dub in Glasgo

Apart from the Commonwealth Games, can somebody explain the benefits of joining a club that contains plenty of despots?

Maybe the US (or some of the states) should consider joining as well?

darkman2

I think we still have enough issues with the UK tbh without this nonsense. I dont think we should join the commonwealth.

magick

No absolutely not!

brianthebard

Actually OP who are these various people you mentioned calling for Ireland to rejoin?

SarahSassy

OS119 wrote:

it would make a million people in the north much happier about RoI involvement in the governance of NI.

WTF???? who cares??????

I would emigrate!

SeanW

RalphCifaretto wrote:

This has to be a pisstake:eek:

My thoughts exactly. Why the hell would we want to go back into any kind of Union with the U.K? Wasn't that the whole point of the 1916 rising and the War of Independence? To be fully separate nation?

I really don't see what good it would do to print the Queen's mug on our money, integrate a mini-UK flag into the tricolour, have the British monarch as the head of state or any of the other Anglophilia that goes with being a "Home Rule"ing part of the British Empire.

Thing is, I have absolutely nothing against the UK, England, the Queen or anyone else. It's just a different country, and I would object point blank to rejoining the Empire in any shape or form.

Some idiot will come out with this nonsense from time-to-time but I'm reasonably sure the Irish people and government would make short work of it if it were to become an actual proposal.

Dub13

brianthebard wrote:

Actually OP who are these various people you mentioned calling for Ireland to rejoin?

Dr William Shija,Secretary General of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.

DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson.

Alliance Party’s Sean Neeson.

Eamon O Cuiv (de Valera’s grandson) Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

wes

Very simply no. It would bring little or no benefit to the country. The British empire is dead and I see no reason to join the last crumbling vestige of it.

darkman2

Dub13 wrote:

Dr William Shija,Secretary General of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.

DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson.

Alliance Party’s Sean Neeson.



WTF! Their not even from the Republic! As Thatcher said 'out, out, out' to the Irish - I say no, no, no.

speaktofrank

Not a chance in hell, unless it was part of a deal that would see Ireland reunified. Nobody in their right mind would approve of it anyway. I can't see Fianna Fail going for it either. De Valera would be rolling in his grave, it was after all his government which withdrew from the Commonwealth and declared the 26 counties a republic in 1949.

InFront

No, it wasn't his Government who did either of those things.

SeanW wrote:

I really don't see what good it would do to print the Queen's mug on our money, integrate a mini-UK flag into the tricolour, have the British monarch as the head of state or any of the other Anglophilia that goes with being a "Home Rule"ing part of the British Empire.

That has nothing to do with this issue. Britain does not own the commonwealth, it is an international community, not a British one; there is no British money, stamps, flag or any other related nationalist insignia. The commonwealth is not the 'British empire', nor has it been for a very long time.
The only modern link to Britain is that the head of the commonwealth happens to be the British monarch, however this role is independent of that office. There is no inter-state subordination in the organisation, i.e. no country rules it.

The old 'British commonwealth' is vastly different to what exists today. It's just another international community that Ireland is eligible to join.

Dub13

darkman2 wrote:

WTF! Their not even from the Republic! As Thatcher said 'out, out, out' to the Irish - I say no, no, no.

Eamon O Cuiv (de Valera’s grandson) Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

darkman2

Dub13 wrote:

Eamon O Cuiv (de Valera’s grandson) Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

I meant Donaldson and that other guy from Alliance. As far as im concerned they can keep their nose out of our affairs and we can interfere in theirs (not the other way around):D

brianthebard

speaktofrank wrote:

Not a chance in hell, unless it was part of a deal that would see Ireland reunified. Nobody in their right mind would approve of it anyway. I can't see Fianna Fail going for it either. De Valera would be rolling in his grave, it was after all his government which withdrew from the Commonwealth and declared the 26 counties a republic in 1949.

Roffles that's hilarious. DeValera can roll in his grave all he wants though imo.

odonnell

RalphCifaretto wrote:

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. The British Commonwealth is rapidly losing all relevance. It is the manifestation of Britain's desperate refusal to let go of its crumbling empire. This is the Empire that occupied, raped and pillaged this Island. The empire that's bloody legacy is still on display for all to see.

It's absolutely despicable to think that Irish society has gotten to the point where people are happy to give anything away for a few quid(the economic benefits of joining the commonwealth are questionable at best), including their dignity, pride and the memory of all those who gave everything to resist british imperialism.

for goodness sake - which desperate refusal would that be then? Im not aware of ANY such desperation in the UK, and since you quite clearly dont know how a Briton thinks - i can safely say that we rarely lie in bed at night wishing for the good old days of shooting Zulus whilst trying to construct bridges in South Africa, or reminiscing about rape and pilage just like the good old vikings did it although, with better facial hair!

Yes thats the life we yearn for!! Yeah! Rape and pillage, hundreds of thousands dead, revolution galore, invasion, conscription, starvation YES!! Bring it all back.....and hell while we are at it lets start sending 8 year olds down the pits again, that was funny, and we can even ban abortion, make christianity compulsory (depending on who is on the throne), and take that vote BACK from our women so they can go back to the kitchen where they belong.

for christ sake get a grip and move on - everyone else has. And as for your 'legacy' statement - sure...the bloody Romans left a legacy which is STILL clear to see.... go complain about the entirety of human history on this planet because im afraid to say - the British are not the only ones on this planet to have done despicable things - high horses all round!

RuggieBear

might win some medals for once tho...

Erin Go Brath

I'd be totally against joining the Commonwealth. Like another poster the only possible way I'd see it ever happening would be as part of a deal with unionists if unificaiton was taking place. The 26 Counties as a single entity could never go for this. There would be outrage amongst the masses!

Zambia

Hmm I think it would be a weak gesture ... Nothing more cant even see Unionists cheering for it. Unionists ring in to complain BBC Radio Ulster if they even discuss the south...

Always open to ideas though

Next ...

FTA69

speaktofrank wrote:

Not a chance in hell, unless it was part of a deal that would see Ireland reunified. Nobody in their right mind would approve of it anyway. I can't see Fianna Fail going for it either. De Valera would be rolling in his grave, it was after all his government which withdrew from the Commonwealth and declared the 26 counties a republic in 1949.

Ironically it was Fine Gael who declared the south a republic! Neither wouldn't be extolling the Republican virtues of a man who hired an English hangman to execute IRA Volunteers.

To be honest I think its a redundant question, why should any part of this country be associated with the last vestiges of the British Empire? The whole sense of a commonwealth confers some sort of legitimacy onto that entity and its something all Irish people should reject.

The Corinthian

RalphCifaretto wrote:

The British Commonwealth is rapidly losing all relevance. It is the manifestation of Britain's desperate refusal to let go of its crumbling empire.

Well, yes, it is a bit of a silly organisation with rather limited benefits – at least nowadays and given we’re already an EU member. My main objection to joining is actually that I’m not certain it’s even worth joining rather than all this man in an armchair behind the man behind the man behind the man behind the wire nonsense.

This is the Empire that occupied, raped and pillaged this Island. The empire that's bloody legacy is still on display for all to see.

Yes indeed. The railroads and roads they built are atrocious.

Seriously, what did the Romans ever do for us?

RalphCifaretto

which desperate refusal would that be then?

When it became clear that the considerable discontent within the commonwealth would ultimately lead to its break up, the British government decided that in order to preserve what was left of the empire, the nature of the commonwealth would have to change. The concessions made at subsequent imperial conferences were desperate attempts to maintain the last institutions of the empire.

Im not aware of ANY such desperation in the UK, and since you quite clearly dont know how a Briton thinks -

I agree. The opinion of the British public doesn't seem to carry much weight with government when it comes to the formation of foreign policy.

Yes thats the life we yearn for!! Yeah! Rape and pillage, hundreds of thousands dead, revolution galore, invasion, conscription, starvation YES!! Bring it all back.....and hell while we are at it lets start sending 8 year olds down the pits again, that was funny, and we can even ban abortion, make christianity compulsory (depending on who is on the throne), and take that vote BACK from our women so they can go back to the kitchen where they belong.

I've no problem discussing this with you, please try to avoid ranting incoherently and misrepresenting my points. It's quite clear the British people do not want to return to the barbarity of the empire.

The point remains however, the commonwealth is essentially an imperial entity and association with it means association with past deeds of the british empire.

And as for your 'legacy' statement - sure...the bloody Romans left a legacy which is STILL clear to see

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

the British are not the only ones on this planet to have done despicable things - high horses all round!

No they are not.

The Corinthian

RalphCifaretto wrote:

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

*COUGH*Treaty of Rome*COUGH*

RuggieBear

RalphCifaretto wrote:

No one is proposing membership of an organisation of former roman colonies.

erm...the EU is basically an organisation of former roman colonies.:D


edit. damn the corinthian...

RalphCifaretto

The Corinthian wrote:

*COUGH*Treaty of Rome*COUGH*

sceptre

RalphCifaretto wrote:

Which is entirely irrelevant.

May be irrelevant to the issue but it can't be irrelevant to the thread as I'm merely answering a question that someone else asked. Piddle.

odonnell

RalphCifaretto wrote:

I've no problem discussing this with you, please try to avoid ranting incoherently and misrepresenting my pointsQUOTE]

....then please try to avoid coming off as a very smug anti-Brit, and then neither of us will have any problem.

Lots of people can claim a heritage of attrocity and in far more modern times too... time has passed, lets not drag it all up again for kicks, because now its about as relevant as the commonwealth.

Back on topic though - in terms of sheer principal, I dont feel Ireland should be looking to join the commonwealth. You have an indipendant nation here, you have the liberty and good fortune to now make your own path in the EU - why look for further allignment with the UK? If it were up to me my homeland would be on the very same path (Scotland).

RalphCifaretto

then please try to avoid coming off as a very smug anti-Brit, and then neither of us will have any problem.

Obviously nobody intends to come across as smug. I don't exactly know what you mean by anti-brit. I oppose British imperialism, as I do all Imperialism. The fact that British Imperialism has had such a profound effect upon my country means the issue is quite close to the bone.

Lots of people can claim a heritage of attrocity and in far more modern times too... time has passed, lets not drag it all up again for kicks, because now its about as relevant as the commonwealth.

I personally find it very relevant to the whole notion of the commonwealth, for reasons I have outlined above.

Back on topic though - in terms of sheer principal, I dont feel Ireland should be looking to join the commonwealth. You have an indipendant nation here, you have the liberty and good fortune to now make your own path in the EU - why look for further allignment with the UK? If it were up to me my homeland would be on the very same path (Scotland).

I'm glad to see we are fundementally in agreement.

Fratton Fred

RuggieBear wrote:

might win some medals for once tho...

Might be worth waiting for those pesky Aussies to leave first, they're a bit good.:D

joecoote

Can anybody really take this thread seriously? Ireland is a 21st century democracy. It is a Republic. It is a member of the European Union. Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

A great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

RalphCifaretto

Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

Apparently so.:rolleyes:

Dub13

joecoote wrote:

Can anybody really take this thread seriously? Ireland is a 21st century democracy. It is a Republic. It is a member of the European Union. Is anyone seriously advocating a retrograde return to an outdated colonial structure whose titular head is a remnant of medieval priviliedge?

A great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

I think the fact that we can talk about this is a great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

darkman2

From my point of view I dont think we should have anything politically to do with Britain. Be good freinds and all that through
the EU and United Nations but the fact is the country next door devided our country and oppressed the country for a very long time. I know someone here will say 'get over it' or something like that but that oppression will always have consequences and Ireland not joining the commonwealth is part of its legacy. Our country remains devided - thats the reality. The crime inflicted on this country that is Northern Ireland is not easy to forget. Until its sorted out the commonwealth will have a sour taste to most Irish people despite the fact it is no longer Empire and little more then a talking shop.

SeanW

Dub13 wrote:

I think the fact that we can talk about this is a great advertisement for a progressive Ireland.

The fact that we can talk about it - good.

The possibility of it actually happening - BAD!

Ireland is a 100% independent republic (EU membership excepted) and in my view, and the view of any right-thinking Irish person, is that it should stay that way.

blorg

There are 53 Commonwealth states. The Queen is head of state of only 15 of these (Canada, Australia, etc.) In fact the _majority_ of Commonwealth states are republics (31.) You have heard of India I presume.

Ireland actually shares many many _more_ actual constitutional ties with Britain than any actual Commonwealth state does (voting and citizenship rights, our own mini-Schengen area, etc.)

End of the day the Commonwealth is a symbolic cultural and trade organisation of free association and people get far too worked up about it here. It is hardly an institution wielded by Her Majesty to exercise a continuing power over her former dominons.

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

odonnell

blorg wrote:

There are 53 Commonwealth states. The Queen is head of state of only 15 of these (Canada, Australia, etc.) In fact the _majority_ of Commonwealth states are republics (31.) You have heard of India I presume.

Ireland actually shares many many _more_ actual constitutional ties with Britain than any actual Commonwealth state does (voting and citizenship rights, our own mini-Schengen area, etc.)

End of the day the Commonwealth is a symbolic cultural and trade organisation of free association and people get far too worked up about it here. It is hardly an institution wielded by Her Majesty to exercise a continuing power over her former dominons.

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

Thik yourself lucky you arent one of those 'tossers' then, because they have to pay £120 a year for the privelage of the BBC.

Zambia

blorg wrote:

Personally I am more than happy that we are no longer locked into a state with those shower of tossers over the water but perhaps we could also develop a somewhat realistic picture of what the Commonwealth actually means.

At a minimum we might just get free-to-air BBC.

Charming well considering your opinion is living back in the 1920's i think the bbc was free then so I will excuse you oversight.

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

No. I think its great that Ireland and Britain have such great relations today, but Im not revisionist enough to think we should rejoin the Commonwealth. Wouldnt be of much benefit considering how few countries in the Commonwealth are in the EU (Malta and the UK, isnt it?).

I think the real problem is down to the lingering post-colonial mentality in this country (and a little fickleness too tbh), 'Ireland and Britain have good relations today, so hell, lets forget everything that happened in the past and act like we were always the best of friends like good little Paddies', type of thing. Im sure they probably had that attitude in the US for a while too after independence though.

Thats if you agree with the 'Colonial' thing in the first place ~ (I dont) ~ but personally speaking, I think re-joining the Commonwealth would be a good & healthy gesture towards the North & Britain, & could in theory go a long, long way to "actually securing a United island" not to mention the many Political & Cultural benefits we would get out of being a member of such a diverse club/community.

"Lets woo the Unionists for once" instead of keeping them at arms length!