'Oxyvent' Cremin tank optimised plumbing system _comments?

bro'

Hi
Has anyone seen or have one of these units in use in their heating systems?

http://www.oxyvent.com/underfloor.htm

From the website and information it would seem that we should all be using one but I'm not sure if its as good as it says with quoted high cost savings on underfloor heating , DHW and traditional radiator heating setups!

would be interested in comments from any plumber's or people in the know as i have UFH in my new build and wonder on any benefits for DHW/UFH.

thanks

bro'

Bump-up to my original post!

any comments on this equipment which removes oxygen from the heating system and improves effeciency? i have contacted them and it reportedly will make a marked difference to the heating setup.

Just want to hear what other people's views are on it?

muffler

Dont know anything about the system but then again Im no expert on these things. Give it time and you will get a few replies but please refrain from bumping

squire1

I've asked around about this system but I haven't been able to find anyone in the trade that has used it.

Everyone seems to have heard of it (thanks Eddie Hobbs :rolleyes: ) but as of yet no one I've talked to has seen one in operation.

The only thing I've heard is that Oxivent charge €750 for the unit but €1000 for installation. I can't see why the installation cost is so high as it looks like a very simple unit but I'm no plumber...

Based on these costs, if it does "what it says on the tin" there would be a five year return on investment in an average house with standard radiator/oil heating system. The return on UFH, they say, would be shorter.

I'd also really like to hear from someone that has used/installed the system.

bro'

Hi Squire1

i think the high installation is because they want you to install it [i.e your own plumber] as I dont believe it is that big an outfit and all accounts its meant to be easy to install?

Although Duncan Stewart and Eddie Hobbs have both reviewed it I am sceptical as to why it is not more popular i.e like you people have heard of it and appreciate it benefits but no one i know of personally has it installed.

Do-more

I met this guy at a show in the RDS 3 or 4 years ago and wasn't impressed with him when I asked how it works, he was very evasive, now call me a skeptic but if someone isn't able or prepared to offer you an explaination of how their product works then I am very dubious of their claims. If you look on his website there is no explaination there either. Perhaps it does work and we are all losing out by not having one, but I would like some independant tests to back up his claims. The TUV cert on his website is just for the pressure vessel itself not for the function of the unit. There are multitudes of organisations around Europe which could test and certify his claims, why if he has spent so much money on developing this product has he not gone and spent the €20K or €30K required to have it's abilities certified?

[Edit] In his FAQ's he states:

Q.Has The Cremin Tank been tested and proven?
A. Yes. The Cremin Tank has been tested by Independent companies. It is installed in homes throughout the country for the last six years with amazing results. It has been tested in laboratory conditions, but more importantly it has been tested and proven in real life situations.

Why doesn't he publish the test results?

muffler

Does he have an Agreement cert or similar for the product?

davidoco

My understanding is that it works by removing all the oxygen/air in the circulating water, which leads to improved flow and heat transfer.

He used to have a description on the site but took it down as when you read what the basic little white box does you wouldn’t pay €700 for it.

For technical information see here

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1264146.html

tonyowens_uk

I came across Mr <SNIP> and his product at the RDS Energy Show today and was interested in it as one of my current clients projects is in the same general area.
The device is what the plumbing trade calls a 'neutraliser' and the engineering community calls a settling tank! <SNIP> also make similar things. They make it easier to interface multiple heat sources in a heating system and provide an alternative to the use of motorised valves when implementing zoned systems. There is a basis for the claims about superior air elimination in unsealed and badly-designed heating systems. There is no basis for any of the other claims made other than in comparison with a defective system.
The European patent is for a tank with a air elimination valve on top. I dont see any physical basis whatever for enjoying "up to 50% fuel saving and superior heating benefits". There is nothing in the patent or any corroborative testing by an independent technically literate authority which reassures me.
I make the following invitation to Mr.<SNIP>. I would be happy to review his device and report on the inventive principles used and organise objective performance testing - at cost!


Mod edit: We dont allow individuals to be named here and while your user name is dodgy we will tolerate it but please dont post anything that will promote your business. Take a minute and read the forum charter.

GoneShootin

Just came across this. Any other real-world testimonials? We all know that online testimonials can be "modified" to say the least...

copper12

it seems to be manly aimed at open systems' having looked at the patent online website
Just had a look at there website; they seem to be stretching the truth a bit
I can see some benefit in adding one of these to an open system; I cannot see any reel benefit adding one of these to a sealed system

sinnerboy

If you comply with b regs you must have a min 86% efficient boiler . What room , realistically can you expect to improve beyond that . How quickly will the €1k repay ?

Call them up and ask

1. how does their product affect a BER assessment i.e how is it entered into DEAP

2. Ask for a ( legible ) copy of the RWTUV cert they feature on their site

3. When they expect have have BBA or IAB cert

Lets know what you find ......

RKQ

I spoke to them about my geo-thermal system. He was very approachable and was honest enough to advise me not to purchase his system as the payback would be x amount of time.

It seems to work well with standard radiator systems, they are still in business so they must be doing something right. I've never heard any complaint or bad press.

I'd advise the OP to contact them directly, maybe visit afew installations and talk to afew happy customers. I believe They do have a patent.

smallcog

Hello,

I'm looking at the oxyvent tank for a client and can't understand the claims about less fuel.
Lets say you have a boiler which runs at 80% efficiency. That means that of the energy in your heating oil, 80% of it is transformed into heat that is dissipated in the radiators. If, with the same boiler, yo are now burning 30% less fuel, then surely there is 30% less heat being dissipated in the house.

I accept that venting the air is a good idea and that the oxyvent tank will heat your house up faster, due to faster flow rate and no air buildup in radiators. I don't however see an explanation for where the "extra" heat comes from, if there is less oil being burnt.

Here's a quote from the trinity testing
"What is most important here is that, over time, the average power output, that being the thermal energy dissipated by Rad #6 into the room, is about the same with a small 8.8 % measured drop. However, this 8.8% is within the experimental uncertainty of the measurement system and is likely not significant. In reality, the tighter power control of the Oxyvent system would provide exceptionally improved comfort since it would maintain the temperature of a room at a much more steady temperature compared with the balanced system."
To me this says there is an 8.8% drop in heat dissipated in the room but this is poo-pooed immediately by a "within the experimental uncertainty" statement. This is a bit convenient. I agree with the statement that the sense of comfort will improve due to less temperature fluctuations but I find the wording "exceptionally improved comfort" surprising for an academic paper, comfort being a rather subjetive matter.

One problem with hearing from people that have installed the system is that there are never figures available to back up claims of decreased fuel usage. No-one keeps track of the average outside temperature/wind and average incisde temperature over a few years to be able to do real-life comparisons. I worry that, similar to solar-water heating, the fact that you shell out the money puts you in the position of wanting to believe that you're really saving money afterwards.

Anyone have any ideas on the energy side of things ?

I'd also like to see Oxyvent put up the names of the people in TCD who did the testing and explain if it was part of independent reaearch or if it was commissioned testing.

Maybe the explanation is that if you have better heat distribution, less trapped air and less temperature fluctuations you feel better with a lower average temperature. Then again, if you dropped your thermostat from 21°C to 20°C would you really notice the difference.
A question to dnamy, do you have any idea of how much electricity the oxyvent tank uses. Theres a couple of pumps in there, if I understand correctly, and it would be interesting to know how much they use, I couldn't find that info on the website anyplace.

/ Colm