Bertie's finances again

Akrasia

Come on mods, you can't lock all the topics on this issue.The last one was locked to consolidate all discussion onto the Matt Cooper thread, and now that one was just locked. Please be fair. It's important to a lot of people.

I listened to Matt Cooper's interview
It was useless,

As far as I'm concerned,the only interesting things Bertie could have said would have related to his financial dealings (mainly because every time he talks about them he puts his foot even further into his mouth)

We all know what his policies are for the next term if he gets elected (More of the same (and I dare anyone to prove me wrong on this)) What he ended up doing was making the same empty promises and the same scaremongering about how the 'alternative government' can't be trusted to manage the economy as well as FF have.
Bertie waffled on about how FF created a construction based economy and Cooper didn't pull him up on the pending economic crisis because of that same bubble.

The interview had the fingerprients of spinmasters and minders all over it.
I am normally pretty supportive of Matt Cooper (he's usually a hell of a lot better than his radio 1 counterparts), but this time, he was very dissappointing.
Change the thread title, edit the beginning of this post, but don't ban me or delete this post or you'll lose this contributor

stepbar

It was locked because Rock Climber didnt want to answer the question he was asked.

InFront

Why did Ahern choose Today FM for the interview? I realise Vincent Browne may not have been a popular choice (!) but I thought Pat Kenny or a special Brian Dobson interview again (since it went so well for him last time) would be more appropriate?

Is Today FM not basically the same as 2FM in terms of its demographic?

ateam

InFront wrote:

Why did Ahern choose Today FM for the interview? I realise Vincent Browne may not have been a popular choice (!) but I thought Pat Kenny or a special Brian Dobson interview again (since it went so well for him last time) would be more appropriate?

Is Today FM not basically the same as 2FM in terms of its demographic?

Today FM is a national radio station and the Last Word has been on for years. Bertie has the right to choose what programme he wants to go on.

InFront

Sure, I'm not criticising it, just asking. I'm not familiar the station, I would have thought it hasn't got a reputation for political/ current affairs radio, that's why I thought it was an unusual choice. I've always thought Today FM was a rival for 2FM, as opposed to RTE1.

Any new information come to light in the interview... anything clarified?

brianthebard

stepbar wrote:

It was locked because Rock Climber didnt want to answer the question he was asked.

It was locked cause people were acting the tit.

Villain

Couldn't be bothered going all over this again just to state my opinion:

Bertie has double standards and is more of a crook than Ivor Callely yet Ivor had to resign and Bertie is still Taoiseach. Time will show Bertie for the crook he is, a Minsiter for Finance with no bank account, signing blank cheques for his corrupt leader and then getting money from Businessmen but only appointed them to positions becasue they were his "friends"!!!

If no-one has a problem with that then fair enough they should sit down and a pint with Martin Cullen, I'm sure they will have loads in common.

Seth Brundle

Ivor resigned as Minister of State at the Department of Transport but didn't resign his TD seat. He is also standing again for FF so it shows that FF doesn't mind politicians like him.
Who was the last member of FF expelled for dodgy practices?

lost_soul

kbannon wrote:

Who was the last member of FF expelled for dodgy practices?

Beverly Cooper-Flynn??

Seth Brundle

D'oh - forgot about her!

stepbar

Ah, Beverly "A class act" Cooper-Flynn. She shouldnt be allowed next or near the Dail considering she's practically bankrupt. But guess what? She'll be always good for a FF vote.

JerkyBoy

The bottom line here is that we have been lied to by our Taoiseach.

And this is not my opinion...it is supported by Bertie's own words...to us, and to the Tribunal.

From the Dobson interview, to the Irish Public:
Ahern:
"I also had to pay off other bills, so the money I'd saved [£50,000] was gone. So my friends knew that. I had no house, the house was gone so they decided to try and help me."

From the Mahon Tribunal transcripts:
O'Neill:
"Well, we know that as of 27th of December, that is let's say the day upon which you recieved the 22,500 [dig-out from friends]. You were already in funds to the extend of 70,000 pounds, isn't that right?"

Ahern:
"That's correct"

He misled us into believing that he got the dig-out because he was having a hard time financially.
Yet at the time he recieved the money he admits that he actually had £70,000 to his name.

I don't appreciate being lied to by my elected representatives and least of all my national leader.

We cannot believe a word this man says.

Voipjunkie

stepbar wrote:

Ah, Beverly "A class act" Cooper-Flynn. She shouldnt be allowed next or near the Dail considering she's practically bankrupt. But guess what? She'll be always good for a FF vote.

She is standing as an independent it is up to the people of Mayo to decide if she should or should not be in the Dail in fairness to Fianna Fail they expelled her from the party if she chooses to stand as an independent and the people of Mayo choose to elect her then that is a matter for them not FF just as Micheal Lowry is a matter for the people of Tipperary not FG .

stepbar

Micheal Lowry doesn't owe 2 mil to RTE......

Voipjunkie

JerkyBoy wrote:

The bottom line here is that we have been lied to by our Taoiseach.

And this is not my opinion...it is supported by Bertie's own words...to us, and to the Tribunal.

From the Dobson interview, to the Irish Public:
Ahern:
"I also had to pay off other bills, so the money I'd saved [£50,000] was gone. So my friends knew that. I had no house, the house was gone so they decided to try and help me."

From the Mahon Tribunal transcripts:
O'Neill:
"Well, we know that as of 27th of December, that is let's say the day upon which you recieved the 22,500 [dig-out from friends]. You were already in funds to the extend of 70,000 pounds, isn't that right?"

Ahern:
"That's correct"

He misled us into believing that he got the dig-out because he was having a hard time financially.
Yet at the time he recieved the money he admits that he actually had £70,000 to his name.

I don't appreciate being lied to by my elected representatives and least of all my national leader.

We cannot believe a word this man says.

In fairness part of the 70,000 was the money he had borrowed from the AIB to pay his legal fees and he did mention that at the time.

My personal opinion is that Bertie is hiding something I don't know what it is but it might be that he hid money from his wife during the separation and that is why he did not put the money he had into a bank account at that time.


He has explained the money from Micheal Wall and it is a reasonable explanation in that no one would pay for a conservatory to a house they were renting and the person who owns the house furnishing it for the tenant is hardly odd.


There is an issue though that the money Bertie claims is the 30,000 sterling that he received from Wall does not add up to the 28,000 + punts lodged by Ms Larkin the lodgement should have been 44,000+ so there is the issue of where was that 16,000 put or that the 28,000 was not the micheal Wall money in which case what money was it.
But perhaps Bertie will be able to explain that to the satisfaction of the tribunal.
On the Ivor Callelly issue the house painting issue was just the last straw it was not the only issue that forced him out and judging by the Fahy case etc if that was all that Ivor had done he would still be a junior minister.

My last point is that while I think that Bertie was/is hiding something I don't think that the allegation that he was a crook or that he has been lining his own pockets stands up the house in question is a very modest house in a housing estate. When you compare Bertie to those who we know to have been crooked like Lawlor ,Haughey ,Burke and Lowry there is no big mansion no stables no tracts of land.
I am sure he is no angel but there are no angels everyone has things in their past that if a tribunal went digging would be hard to explain.

Voipjunkie

stepbar wrote:

Micheal Lowry doesn't owe 2 mil to RTE......

So what that is a matter for RTE Lowry did owe a large sum to the taxman it is not FG fault that the people of tipperary voted for him as an independent nor could it be FFs fault if the people of Mayo vote for BCF as an independent we live in a democracy and FF or FG can nor should prevent people for standing for election if people are dumb enough to vote for them that is the peoples fault.

Heinrich

Let's assume that Joe Bloggs is undergoing a bitter separation from his wife, finishing up in proceedings in the high court. He does not want his estranged wife to know of his finances so he sets up a bank account in England or the Isle of Man or wherever and earns some nice interest on the money at the same time.

All he needs now is someone to withdraw the dosh from time to time and bring it in a suitable briefcaseto Dublin for the purchase of pillow cases and other sundry items. Any volunteers?

Joe Bloggs is a devious and cunning man - shame on him!:D

Senator

Let's just remember this when listening to Bertie's assurances about ANYTHING - this is the man who told us he had "been up every tree" in North County Dublin to look into Ray Burke's financial affairs.

Heinrich

Senator wrote:

Let's just remember this when listening to Bertie's assurances about ANYTHING - this is the man who told us he had "been up every tree" in North County Dublin to look into Ray Burke's financial affairs.

True but in the meantime more trees have grown so that would account for...


well you know what, ahem, like you know what I explained and that's a FACT.

jmayo

Voipjunkie wrote:

She is standing as an independent it is up to the people of Mayo to decide if she should or should not be in the Dail in fairness to Fianna Fail they expelled her from the party if she chooses to stand as an independent and the people of Mayo choose to elect her then that is a matter for them not FF just as Micheal Lowry is a matter for the people of Tipperary not FG .

Actually at last election Bertie was almost higging and kissing Beverly and Padraig, on streets of Castlebar, even though I think she was no longer a member.
She is another one of these quasi FF people. Some day she may be officially back in the fold.
But of course the muppets around Castlebar and what used to be Mayo West constituency vote for her since her ould man looked after them well. Pity he didn't do 1/100 as much for the rest of the county.
That family makes my skin crawl.

In any other democracy I doubt Lowry or Flynn would be allowed stand never mind be elected.
Reasonally I know there was huge amount of cra** flying in Australia over some corrupt Western Australia Labour party minister actually "just meeting" the Labour leader. Imagine if we had standards like that here, 99% of FF and 90% of others would be gone.
It is this old Irish thing of loving the cute hoor. And then they wonder why their poor ma can't get an operation because there is no money in the kitty for the health service aka 1980s.

Voipjunkie

jmayo wrote:

Actually at last election Bertie was almost higging and kissing Beverly and Padraig, on streets of Castlebar, even though I think she was no longer a member.
She is another one of these quasi FF people. Some day she may be officially back in the fold.
But of course the muppets around Castlebar and what used to be Mayo West constituency vote for her since her ould man looked after them well. Pity he didn't do 1/100 as much for the rest of the county.
That family makes my skin crawl.

In any other democracy I doubt Lowry or Flynn would be allowed stand never mind be elected.
Reasonally I know there was huge amount of cra** flying in Australia over some corrupt Western Australia Labour party minister actually "just meeting" the Labour leader. Imagine if we had standards like that here, 99% of FF and 90% of others would be gone.
It is this old Irish thing of loving the cute hoor. And then they wonder why their poor ma can't get an operation because there is no money in the kitty for the health service aka 1980s.

I'm not defending Flynn or Lowry the point is that it is up to the people not to FF or FG
The people are the ones who get out and vote for these people fully aware of what they have done.
As for your point on any other democracy if that is the case then perhaps we have a better democracy as ultimately the people should decide not anyone else on behalf of the people.
You and I can disagree vehemently with the choice but ultimately that is democracy people get what they deserve.

Rock Climber

stepbar wrote:

It was locked because Rock Climber didnt want to answer the question he was asked.

As per the warning in the other thread,you are banned for a week.

brianthebard wrote:

It was locked cause people were acting the tit.

Thank you Brian.

This thread lives as long as there is no more acting the tit.

Cosack

Bertie has a history of financial "oddities"
Remembering that he's a certified accountant, he would have us believe the following:

1, He signed blank cheques for C.J.

2, For a period of 5 years or so, he had absolutely no bank account !!!

3, Landlords are willing to invest 33% of a properties worth in renovations.

But, we live in a country where this seems to be ok. After the revelations regarding his "friends" baling him out, his popularity actually went up. And these are just the things that have come to light, how many other skeletons does he have in his closet?

gandalf

I honestly expect Bertie to "stand down" soon after the election no matter what. I am of the opinion that Mahon will be damning towards his finances and that this may be too much to bear for either the FF faithful or god forbid they do make it into another Government their partners.

I must check what odds Biffo is getting to be FF leader in 6 months

Rock Climber

Yeah Biffo would be an ideal leader for them in opposition-at least he's coherent.
That said my aunt used to say he's the ugliest man on earth,I'd be inclined to agree:D

Akrasia

Rock Climber wrote:

Yeah Biffo would be an ideal leader for them in opposition-at least he's coherent.
That said my aunt used to say he's the ugliest man on earth,I'd be inclined to agree:D

I see your Brian Cowen and raise you Eamon Dunphy, And who wouldn't vote for him to be the next Taoiseach?

Voipjunkie

gandalf wrote:

I honestly expect Bertie to "stand down" soon after the election no matter what. I am of the opinion that Mahon will be damning towards his finances and that this may be too much to bear for either the FF faithful or god forbid they do make it into another Government their partners.

I must check what odds Biffo is getting to be FF leader in 6 months

Even earlier than that if FF go into opposition then there is no point in Bertie leading them there as he has said he will go before the next election.

And if it is to be a FF/Lab Government it would be hard for Lab to go in with Bertie so the price of that maybe Berties head.