Truth about being fat

Transform

There was a good article in yesterdays Sunday Independent magazine titled

The truth about being fat - four brave souls talk honestly about being object of society's disapproval and distain.

I thought some were more honest than others and it really showed the hardship and sadness obese/overweight people suffer.

There are some excellent quotes to discuss-

D.D.
"I have grappled with my weight since a toddler...... The efforts to lose weight have been extremely dangerous too.... pils, crazy diets, couldn't sleep etc......you can't live without any pleasure....losing weight is easy keeping it down is damn near impossible"

A.S.
"I think i look ok but know that many people would consider me to be an aberration (she is a size 28 at 17stone age 38).....i tend to make healthy eating choices when eating in public......I don't think being thin is the key to happiness, if you achieve the perfect figure you move on to something else to be happy about.... If i was a size 12 tomorrow mu life would be exactly the same, because happiness comes from your head.

"(opening quote) The bigger someone gets the more invisable they become, we shrink because we are ashamed of ourselves (yet she closes with the above statement!)"

EF
"Size 30 plus aged 55.....i have a sister 3 years younger than me and weighs 7 stone. When she gets anxious she will zoom down to 6 and a half stone... i go up and up... Its really hard for me to lose weight...they put me on bovril (hospital) for 2 days and only lost a pound....when asked in hospital why i was here i replied - i want my life back!"

AS
"You become invisable and are treated like a second class citizen....I find it very hard to lose weight and have not bought clothes in over a year.. i have gotten my bmi down from 43 to 39....i think that overweight women who say that they can look in the mirror and claim to be happy with themselves are only codding themselves.....i think its worse than smoking and drinking. They are going about this sixe zero think but being obese is worse".

My thoughts
- i found the feature very sad and a little depressing and in the next 10-50 years they predict that obesity and overweight will become more of a proplem not less.

- I suggest we learn from the above a people need to stop talking about getting in shape and get up off their butt and do something about it. All of the above people put TONS of work into getting obese we only need to take small steps every day to feel and look better.

- Most people will not admit that the fundamental problem is that they eat too much and there is no pleasure in eating healthy. I had a wonderful time on Rome last weekend, walked my butt off, ate icecream, drank wine, ran in the park. Where is the pleasure in not being able to walk far without causing a chaffing in your rubbing thighs or sweating like a fitness bunnie in a spinning class?

- People who have weight issues must WANT to change and it is your duty to be healthy so you can maintain your independence as you get older. We all know people who are overweight what are we doing to help them or do they actually just want to keep talking about their knee, back, sleep, sweat problems?

Get busy living or get busy dying

Hanley

Transform wrote:

- I suggest we learn from the above a people need to stop talking about getting in shape and get up off their butt and do something about it. All of the above people put TONS of work into getting obese we only need to take small steps every day to feel and look better.

Quoted for truth.

They all seem to have tried quick fixes and crash diets and bemoan the fact the weight comes straight back on. Of course it does.. your body's used to being fat, it doesn't like you upsetting the status quo so it's gonna go right back to the way it was unless you make a lifestyle change and force it to do what you want.

People don't get fat over night, so why do they expect to get skinny over night??

It's amazing what a bit of common sense would do for a lot of people...

Diamondmaker

I saw this great B2 or C4 doc about an American comedian who came to the UK to promote helthy living in schools. He weighed 44st I think and was huge to look at.

He went into schools and explained to kids how many calories in a bar of choc by showing them how to read the label and then telling them if they did not want the bar to turn to fat they would have to do 400 laps of the sports hall or jump rope for an hour or whatever.
Naturally all the kids started skipping and running until they realised this was just not practical or possible.
He went on to say, you can have healthier choices and you should take them sometimes.
Its only this sort of practical display that can go any way to convincing a kid that they infact CANNOT eat this crap 24/7.

It was only this morning I saw a load of school kids in a leafy North Dublin suburb waiting for the bus; choc bars, wedges and coke for breakfast it would seem. Probably hurried out of the house no time for a supervised breakfast!

The parents are resposible and the schools really should be empowered to give some form of education on the matter. It has to be tackled from the 10 year old eating the above for breakfast or the mother wheeling the trolley around Aldi with nothing but frozen foods for the family.

As much as a problem as it is and our obvious realisation of it, there does not seem to be ( I have not seen it outside of UK media any way ) any attempt to tackle this. My folks made me eat well and my mom was a crap cook to boot, its only cos of this I learned to cook to "spite":) them. Cooking is something not taught any where and the skills are not being handed down by parents these days either as they dont have them.
I had a college mate who classically tried to shallow fry a deep frozen drumstick:D This is what we are up against, of course he is going for the bing bing micro meals.

rubadub

Transform wrote:

Its really hard for me to lose weight...they put me on bovril (hospital) for 2 days and only lost a pound....when asked in hospital why i was here i replied - i want my life back!"

I wonder how much she expected to lose. I wonder if the doctor told her that 1lb is a normal amount to be losing and that she probably has a normal metabolism and the average person on the street would lose the same weight in 2 days on a similar diet.

I am always surprised at the ignorance of people when it comes to weight loss. Even moreso at people who have serious weight problems so you presume they would have read up about it. Womens magazines are full of stuff about diets, calories etc. I know women like these who are overweight yet seem to be blind to what they are eating. I get girls and some guys asking me "whats the secret" referring to me losing weight, all of them want a quick fix, as though drinking bovril for 2 days will let you drop 3 stone or something. I see people convinced they are "dieting", horsing down 1000kcal in one sitting oblivious to the calories they are ingesting, convinced it is "good food" so the amounts don't seem to matter.

This should all be taught in school, unforunately "physical eduction" classes in this country are abbreviated to PE which means running around a field for 30mins, and is considered a "treat", in my school people were punished by not allowing them get any "physical education"

i found the feature very sad and a little depressing and in the next 10-50 years they predict that obesity and overweight will become more of a proplem not less

Far worse, too many labour saving devices. I have mates who refuse to walk anywhere, guys in shock that I would walk 10minutes to the pub, then wondering how they are fat and talk of joining gyms when they could easily get a few hours exercise in just walking to places. I see kids at the end of my road waiting for a bus to the school which is a 5min walk away, I recognised the uniform couldnt believe it when I copped it.

Linoge

AS
"i think that overweight women who say that they can look in the mirror and claim to be happy with themselves are only codding themselves.....i think its worse than smoking and drinking. They are going about this sixe zero think but being obese is worse".

The only person who spoke a bit of truth in the article...

What I find amazing is that people can spend 5, 10, 20 and more years overweight and obese, but when they find that it might take up to a year to get down to a normal weight its just too long to wait!

And really, anyone who does these crash diets, how much research have they really done into losing weight?? FFS, a 5 minute read of the stickies in here is all it takes to get you started. It just seems that its more convenient for some people to read the article right next to the "I Married my Husbands Murderer" story... For some its laziness that goes to the bone:mad:

Kinetic^

I agree that they are codding themselves and as the previous poster said, if they read the stickies they could learn a whole lot. It's certainly not easy.......not as easy as getting fat anyway.

The other factor which I think is big one, is the support from people around you. After recently getting back in the gym, I got a friend involved too. Brought him up and did weights, had him going up there with me for about 2 weeks solid. So champion league match on one of the nights, he goes to the pub with his old man and I got to the gym. I meet them afterwards and my friend was like "ah my arms are sore from the gym" so his father turns around and goes "What ya wanna be lifting weights for? sure that's a lifetime of maintenance!!" I bit my tongue, what chance has my friend got when his old man can't support you!! I felt like turning around and saying "well so is getting fat", reason I didn't is because I try not to force my ideals on other people.

Diamondmaker

Kenny 5 wrote:

"What ya wanna be lifting weights for? sure that's a lifetime of maintenance!!" I bit my tongue, what chance has my friend got when his old man can't support you!! I felt like turning around and saying "well so is getting fat", reason I didn't is because I try not to force my ideals on other people.

Ah getting fat is no "maintenance" its the easiest thing in the world to do in Ireland. The beer bellied irish man is the norm and we get so little good weather that guys can get away with being out of shape and looking ok clothed a lot easier than women IMO. Then once you have "gotten away with it" til 30 or so, you realise its stacking up and then you try at it, few weeks and then "bah" its too much hard work to undo all the years of not noticing that much.

I think its a lot down to climate, If we spent more time on a beach or able to wear less we would look after ourselves better, its that simple I think. We dont, so we dont have to.

nesf

Transform wrote:

i think that overweight women who say that they can look in the mirror and claim to be happy with themselves are only codding themselves.....i think its worse than smoking and drinking. They are going about this sixe zero think but being obese is worse".

I think comments like this are unhelpful.

Problems with this:

Overweight women can mean anything. We could be talking about extreme obesity here or someone who’s a few pounds over their “ideal” weight. It’s probably just someone who doesn’t speak precisely here though but it creates problems with the quote.

Happiness and your body’s shape are not (for everyone) completely interdependent. Again this is a hugely varied thing, from anorexics to people who aren’t overly concerned about how they look. I’d agree that most heavily obese people are (probably) not happy with the way they look but I’m really not sure that it would apply to people who are merely “overweight”.

Wanting to lose fat or bulk up doesn’t necessarily mean that you are unhappy with the way you presently look, you can be happy but would also like to change things a bit. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Happiness isn’t some binary state that’s either on or off.

If someone is happy being overweight, let them. The whole fitness thing shouldn’t be taken up as some form of moral crusade where you are out to try and convert people to the cause. If someone doesn’t happen to share the same views as you on happiness as connected to body image then that doesn’t mean that they are wrong and you are right.


Wanting to be a healthy weight is a good thing. There are a vast number of reasons for wanting it (personally I’d rank better overall health as the top one over and above “how I look” but to each their own) but that doesn’t mean that it’s somehow “bad” or “wrong” to not want this or to rank other things as being more important (again I’d rank a bunch of things as being a bigger priority for me but again each to their own).

I really have never understood the mentality that says it’s ok to berate/mock/look down on those who are over or underweight. Encourage people sure, but keep the criticism constructive.


/rant

Edit: I appreciate that the comments above are aimed at the lowest common denominator so I'm being a bit harsh here in my criticism but tbh it's an attitude that is (imho) unhelpful and unconstructive. Telling people that they should feel bad about their weight or calling them lazy because they are overweight is (again in my opinion) indefensible and potentially harmful. Eating disorders are a far more serious problem than people being overweight when you really get down to it.

hunnymonster

nesf wrote:

If someone is happy being overweight, let them. The whole fitness thing shouldn’t be taken up as some form of moral crusade where you are out to try and convert people to the cause. If someone doesn’t happen to share the same views as you on happiness as connected to body image then that doesn’t mean that they are wrong and you are right.

I really want to agree with you and adopt a live and let live attitude but my tax is going to pay for the medical treatment obese people are going to need (over and above those treatments required by the general population) so I have an interest in getting people active and healthy.

nesf wrote:

Edit: I appreciate that the comments above are aimed at the lowest common denominator so I'm being a bit harsh here in my criticism but tbh it's an attitude that is (imho) unhelpful and unconstructive. Telling people that they should feel bad about their weight or calling them lazy because they are overweight is (again in my opinion) indefensible and potentially harmful. Eating disorders are a far more serious problem than people being overweight when you really get down to it.

I agree we shouldn't go around telling people theya re lazy but I would always encourage giving people the information they need to improve themselves.

Eating disorders are rarely about weight. They're about confidence, control, achievement and a range of other characteristics manifest as eating restriction and control but the weight is just the manifestation of another problem.

nesf

hunnymonster wrote:

I really want to agree with you and adopt a live and let live attitude but my tax is going to pay for the medical treatment obese people are going to need (over and above those treatments required by the general population) so I have an interest in getting people active and healthy.

Should we ban alcohol, driving etc? It's a very tricky thing to tease out. The way tax is distributed is a very complicated thing to justify.

hunnymonster wrote:

Eating disorders are rarely about weight. They're about confidence, control, achievement and a range of other characteristics manifest as eating restriction and control but the weight is just the manifestation of another problem.

I was more referring to undermining people's happiness with their body image because it doesn't match some ideal set by society. If we tell people who are fat that they shouldn't be happy it will have an effect on this.

hunnymonster

I'd happily educate people on the dangers of excessive alcohol intake. I'm not advocating banning food jsut giving people the best possible help to prevent overeating becoming a medical problem that needs to be paid for.


I've already agreed with you on the second point.

nesf

hunnymonster wrote:

I'd happily educate people on the dangers of excessive alcohol intake. I'm not advocating banning food jsut giving people the best possible help to prevent overeating becoming a medical problem that needs to be paid for.

Sure, but the question is to what right are you allowed to "intervene" in someone's life to correct their weight. Educating people is easy to justify when it's voluntary.

hunnymonster wrote:

I've already agreed with you on the second point.

I know, I just wanted it to be clear that I wasn't trying to say anything different to you.

hunnymonster

sorted. I'll have to have a wee think about how much we're going to intervene when I rule the world:D Certainly tax breaks for gym membership and descent state sponsorship for things like the 10 km races around the place. Some of the PT's might be able to elaborate on research into the most successful ways of motivating people to spend less time on the couch or in abrakebra.

Reyman

I think this whole 'fatness' thing is a lot more serious than people think. There was a professor from one of the Irish Universities on the radio the other day and he was explaining that even if we sorted out the overeating and underexercise today we would still have a problem for the next 70 years.

He explained that young kids who get fat will have an ongoing problem with keeping their weight down. He used technical terms to describe the different cell structure that their body develops and he explained that it is incurable.

The problem will only be solved when these kids die in 70 years time ! If you allow your children to get fat the problem is permanent.

brianthebard

nesf wrote:

Should we ban alcohol, driving etc? It's a very tricky thing to tease out. The way tax is distributed is a very complicated thing to justify.

one in eight people in New York city have type two diabetes(once known as obesity related diabetes) , which is caused by bad diet and the worst traits of Western lifestyles. It is hard to ignore the fact that America, and many countries in Western Europe are facing an obesity epidemic in the very near future. The fact is obesity has become acceptable since people are capable of functioning in everyday life while still being much more than a bit overweight, and its now gotten to the stage where it is putting a strain on society. Bottom line, this is starting to go past a personal choice argument.

nesf

brianthebard wrote:

one in eight people in New York city have type two diabetes(once known as obesity related diabetes) , which is caused by bad diet and the worst traits of Western lifestyles. It is hard to ignore the fact that America, and many countries in Western Europe are facing an obesity epidemic in the very near future. The fact is obesity has become acceptable since people are capable of functioning in everyday life while still being much more than a bit overweight, and its now gotten to the stage where it is putting a strain on society. Bottom line, this is starting to go past a personal choice argument.

Firstly is it not a fact that obesity causes Type II diabetes. There is a strong correlation between the two but we don't know what the causal factor is. There is a lot of research going on in this area but we don't know whether it is obesity that causes diabetes or some other factor that causes both (or diabetes causes obesity...). This doesn't make "obesity ok" but it does mean that we might have to rethink our approach to all this and that making broad assumptions isn't something that's verifiable. If I remember correctly there was some study out recently that showed a genetic link in some cases of Type II diabetes and there was talk of needing to rethink the categories (it was in Scientific American a few months back I think, I could be wrong though).

I definitely agree that obesity is a problem but we need to keep fact, conjecture and opinion separate in all of this.



Secondly, where is this line defining what is and what is not covered by personal choice out of interest?

nesf

Reyman wrote:

I think this whole 'fatness' thing is a lot more serious than people think. There was a professor from one of the Irish Universities on the radio the other day and he was explaining that even if we sorted out the overeating and underexercise today we would still have a problem for the next 70 years.

He explained that young kids who get fat will have an ongoing problem with keeping their weight down. He used technical terms to describe the different cell structure that their body develops and he explained that it is incurable.

The problem will only be solved when these kids die in 70 years time ! If you allow your children to get fat the problem is permanent.

That is very interesting, I saw some research a while back that found that there was a very strong link between being obese as a kid and being obese as an adult. Encouraging exercise for kids and teens might be very affective in tackling the problem in the long-term.

davyjose

hunnymonster wrote:

Certainly tax breaks for gym membership and descent state sponsorship for things like the 10 km races around the place.

I would think that the way food is advertised and sold in this country should be the number 1 priority. Very few people are fat because they don't exercise - it's because they eat crap.
A few months ago I started a threadm complaining that Tesco had Eclairs labelled "Healthy Living". How can they be allowed to do this?
All the "fat-free" products on the market fooling people into thinking they're ok to eat!!!
We know better, but we only know better because we take a concerted interest in this - it isn't necessarily public ignorance, not when they're being told it's ok to gobble down half a packet of "Go-ahead" (even the name...) Chocolate biscuits*

As for nesf's point - I agree to an extent, however, if people are trying to lose weight then they simply ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THEIR WEIGHT, this doen't mean they are miserable people, in the same way that I'm not happy with how much my boss pays me, but I would consider myself a happy person - most of the time

*as part of a calorie controlled diet, or whatever.......

LegacyUser

Fat people who are fat due to their own over-indulgence piss me off and I have no sympathy for them...my heart bleeds for the people who can't control their weight issues though. That is a sad affair...

ali.c

i think its also important to point out that we are constantly being targetted with quick fix weight loss products. Being sold the idea that there is a quick fix solution i.e. a weightloss product which is inappropritate since obesity usually comes down lifestyle. Bearing in mind that long term these products dont work for most people it keeps them looking for that quick fix solution. For all the talk about healthy eating and slow sustained weightloss there is a lot of shouting about dropping a dress size in 2 weeks or equivalent.

Even where the right information is available how many of the people who need the information truely understand the nature of it ? and have the capacity to go about applying it to their life? Bearing in mind that changing your lifestyle is hardwork what about if those around you are not supportive of your efforts?

Just my 2cents on it anyway...

nesf

davyjose wrote:

As for nesf's point - I agree to an extent, however, if people are trying to lose weight then they simply ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THEIR WEIGHT, this doen't mean they are miserable people, in the same way that I'm not happy with how much my boss pays me, but I would consider myself a happy person - most of the time [/SIZE]

That wasn't really my point. It was more that I objected to the assertion that an overweight person being happy is "only codding themselves" and were somehow lying to themselves which implies that you can only be happy about how you look if you fit into some arbitrary definition of being a "healthy weight". Or even worse that you should only be happy if you fit into this definition which is even more judgemental and unhelpful. It's like telling someone that they aren't allowed to be happy at achieving a middle grade in something academic and that they should only be happy if they managed to excel at it. Judgemental crap tbh.

What you say on the other hand is totally reasonable. Though it mightn't be how you look that bothers you as much as the health consequences of being a certain weight.

Boru.

There will always be fat people in the world. It's too profitable a business. Heaven forfend that someone points out it actually takes less than 5 and a half days out of 365 to get to and maintain great physical shape and excellent health. :rolleyes:

Sleepy

How do you tackle obesity?

1. Forbid children from bringing junk-food to school as part of their diets.
2. Close school 'tuck-shops'.
3. Educate children about diet and nutrition in secondary school.
4. Make it illegal for the likes of Cosmo to print articles on fad diets.
5. Make feeding your children crap all the time a criminal charge of child abuse.
6. Better labeling of food and a removal of VAT from fruit, veg, wholemeal foods etc.

It seems pretty straight-forward to me tbh.

rubadub

hunnymonster wrote:

Certainly tax breaks for gym membership

I am still surprised there are no state run gyms, yet politicians talk of "tackling obesity". As I said earlier "PE" in schools is seen as a treat and involves no actual education about diet etc. There might be a bit in home economics but only about 50% of the population are even offered that subject.

They could easily have even open air facitilities in parks, in the early morning I have used climbing frames in a public playground near me for chinning, pull ups & dips. Can't do it when people are around or they would probably call the cops! but seriously how much would it cost to stick a chinning bar in public areas known for runners etc.

Tesco had Eclairs labelled "Healthy Living". How can they be allowed to do this?
All the "fat-free" products on the market fooling people into thinking they're ok to eat!!!
We know better, but we only know better because we take a concerted interest in this - it isn't necessarily public ignorance, not when they're being told it's ok to gobble down half a packet of "Go-ahead" (even the name...) Chocolate biscuits*

That stuff drives me mad, but I do put it down to ignorance, everybody knows marketers are lying scum, but I know very few people who know how to read ingredients/nutritional info, I have mates comment when I do "do you know what that stuff means!?!" as though it is another language.

Many "healthy living" and weight watcher stuff has the same or even more calories than "normal" stuff, they just quote or give smaller portions.

I looked at HB "light" icecream yesterday, think it was 80kcal per 100ml compared to 89kcal per 100ml for "normal" stuff. I only looked at it since I know a guy who wolfs it down convinced it is "diet" icecream, and so can eat tonnes of it.

g'em

ali.c wrote:

i think its also important to point out that we are constantly being targetted with quick fix weight loss products. Being sold the idea that there is a quick fix solution i.e. a weightloss product which is inappropritate since obesity usually comes down lifestyle. Bearing in mind that long term these products dont work for most people it keeps them looking for that quick fix solution. For all the talk about healthy eating and slow sustained weightloss there is a lot of shouting about dropping a dress size in 2 weeks or equivalent.

For me, this is the crux of it.

I've often wondered what it's like to wander into the Fitness forum as someone who's looking to lose a few pounds or isn't happy with their shape or wants to improve their ability to run up and down a football pitch. The thing is, I'm quite sure this is actually a relatively scary place to post. I'm not for a second saying that the regular posters are mean, nasty horrible people but think of it from an outsiders pov:

Like ali said, the prevailing and predominant message that popular media feeds us (women particulalry) is that to lose weight there's a whole range of quick fixes available. Open up a gossip or fashion magazine and I guarantee you that it will contain reports of the newest weight-loss craze. "Lose 5lb in 5 days!!" "Eat like Angelina/ Jennifer/ Courtney/ Beyonce!!" "Slim down for summer sexiness!!". Of course, elsewhere in the same magazine you find articles and advertisements telling us that X chocolate bar will help you wind down after a long day or Ice Cream Y is the perfet accompaniment to a DVD. When you don't know any better, it's hard not to let those mixed messages make your own dieting decisions that bit harder.

The weight loss articles will rarely, if ever, go into detail about WHY certain foods are being eaten i.e. they don't actually educate people. I often read through the different meal plans advocated out of sheer curiosity and sure enough, by and large the meals are structured in the same way:
* slow-release carbs and fruit/ yoghurt for breakfast or an omelette
* nuts and/ or fruit for snacking
* salad and lean meat/ fish for lunch
* vegetables + meat for dinner, possibly some low GI carbs...

Well hell, that's what we say in the stickies right? Yeah, but the stickies aren't quite as user friendly as a glossy two-page magazine with pictures of slim actresses who've all tried and tested the diet (and who have full-time personalchefs and nutritionists to do the hard work for them!!). When you read the stickies here you have to... *gasp* ... do the hard work yourself. And even though we advocate the same basic foodstuffs as the magazines do, we don't advocate quick weight loss, in fact quite the opposite.

It's all very well for us to say "Read the Stickies. Eat less and move more. Calories in < calories out = weight-loss" BUT the simple fact is that we take this knowledge for granted. We've been reading about it and implementing it for so long that it's become second nature to us. We tend to forget that actually, our way of lving is more abnormal than most "regular" people.

If you stopped someone on the street, what do you think are the chances they'd know what a calorie *actually* was? Or what foods have a lot of protein in them? Or why oily fish or walnuts or broccoli are important additions to a healthy balanced diet? So of course they're going to think of "Diet" foods like Tesco's healthy living range as normal food - they don't know any better.

Let's face it, some people genuinely are downright lazy. They don't want to know what healthy living is all about, nor do they care to abide by it. And that's fine. But for many people, it's a case of ignorance. They don't know HOW to go about losing weight healthily, and they don't know the benefits of it. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people wishing to lose weight are doing it out of vanity, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But how many would know that losing weight reduces your risk of heart disease ans stroke, reduces your risk of certain cancers, reduces your risk of developing Type II diabetes, reduces osteoarthritis, improves your sex-life, improves your sleeping patterns, improves your mood, lengthens your life expectancy etc.?

I'm pretty certain that if I took the diet info in the stickies, played around a little with the words, added some recipes and some glossy 3 x 5 photos of slim celebs and topped it off with a catchy name I could fairly succesfully market it as a revolutionary diet plan. But my one drawback is that I'm not offering a quickie (fix that is, get your minds out of the gutter ) and as opposed to simply telling people what to eat I'd rather educate them to make their own choices. I've been on both sides, I know *exactly* how confusing and daunting and overwhelming the whole issue of weight loss can be - three years ago a typical 'dieting' day consisted of corn flakes for breakfast, a green salad and a small plate of chips for lunch and a croissant for dinner. In my mind less food = less fat, and I'd imagine it's the same for most.

Berating people and telling them how lazy they are is not going to do any good. But frankly, neither is sitting back and letting them kill themselves. Their lazines is ust a symptom of their ignorance. Improve the information available and if they still want to be lazy, well leave them to it, but when someone genuinely doesn't realise the harm of being overweight/ obese it's a little different.

Educate the parents, they pass it to their kids. Educate the teenagers, they pass it amongst their friends. Educate the masses, they'll learn to turn a blind eye to what the media dictates we should be and decide for themselves what they feel is a happy lifestyle.

Supercell

Thats a great post G'em.

Maybe I can add a little to it as currently i'm definitely in the obese camp again.

Last year I did Lipotrim, and lost a huge amount of weight and got back my figure of my teenage years again
I was over the moon and was convinced i'd learned my fatty lessons and that was it, eat healthy from now on and I was sorted.
In fairness, that did last for a couple of months, then the odd extra night out, the ice cream, the chocolate bar etc etc etc crept in and by now am back eating the exact same way I was before loosing all that weight and surprise surprise I weigh the same again truthfully a little more..the curve was trending up and is continuing)

One of the hardest things I think for a fatty like myself is just the sheer lack of energy it leaves you with.
As an overweight fatty it leaves me out of breath just walking up a couple of flights of stairs in work. In fact doing anything leaves me a little out of breath, its just nice and easy to sit at the computer and munch away ..that doesnt take much effort.
When I was a few stones lighter I found it quite hard to sit still, I was running around doing stuff all the time, and going up a couple of flights of stairs??..race it!!..I'll be out of breath for a few seconds not like when I'd be in recovery for 10 minutes or more before

Bottom line, while its very easy from a fit perspective to call fat people lazy, there is a bit more to it and I hugely admire the people here that are just just doing their best to propose sensible safe ways to loose the weight such as just walking a little bit every day and building up, rather than go out get a treadmill/exercise bike and "just do it" (which thankfully seems to not be common advice here but is on many other forums i've read ).

I quit smoking a few years ago and loosing weight kind of reminds me of that -
You either diet and think you are "giving them up" or you just eat right and quit fatty/smoker lifestyle.
For a while i used to tell people i was off (dieting) the fags xyz months.
Now I'd like to say I quit (started to eat right) a few years ago and haven't looked back.

Its a long journey but if nothing else Lipotrim did show me - I can, if I try hard enough, get the old slim me back, just it needs committing to myself to change my eating habits permanently for the better, not a quick fix this time.

Linoge

Longfield wrote:

its very easy from a fit perspective to call fat people lazy.

I know that this and nesf's comment are in reference to the comment that I made above, but that was not the point I was trying to make. I didn't call fat people lazy, I was saying that the way the majority of fat people go about losing weight is lazy.

Most people who do a crash or fashionable diet do so after reading an article during some recreational reading. At most they will go out and buy an Atkins book etc. after reading said article. You could read and have a decent understanding of all the stickies in here in about 30 mins. This info is much more valuable than anything you could read in a glossy magazine.

Losing weight also takes planning and preperation. A food diary is too much trouble for some people. Some can't be bothered reading or even understanding food labels. Thinking about your day/week ahead as to what you can eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Shopping on a full stomach. Going to the shop with exact change (so you only have enough to buy the paper or whatever).

The reason why diets like the Lipotrim are popular is not only do they offer a quick fix to a long term problem (which of course we all know is a load of bollox), but it also takes the science and thinking out of losing weight eg. shake for breakfast, shake for lunch, proper dinner or Special K for breakfast, Special K for lunch and proper dinner. Why not proper breakfast, lunch and dinner or do people not know/care what these are?

Hanley

Longfield wrote:

Bottom line, while its very easy from a fit perspective to call fat people lazy, there is a bit more to it

Could you clarify what more there is to it?

You lost the weight on Lipotrim. You kept it off for a couple of months. You took your eye off the ball and went back to eating how you used to and now you're in the exact same place again correct?

nesf

Linoge wrote:

I know that this and nesf's comment are in reference to the comment that I made above, but that was not the point I was trying to make. I didn't call fat people lazy, I was saying that the way the majority of fat people go about losing weight is lazy.

I was only commenting to say that it's an unhelpful way to put it and not constructive. It's not that I disagree with you or think that you are wrong. In essence I agree with what you are saying but I don't think it's good way to phrase things and to me it seems overly negative. If that makes sense.

Diamondmaker

Sleepy wrote:

How do you tackle obesity?

1. Forbid children from bringing junk-food to school as part of their diets.
2. Close school 'tuck-shops'.
3. Educate children about diet and nutrition in secondary school.
4. Make it illegal for the likes of Cosmo to print articles on fad diets.
5. Make feeding your children crap all the time a criminal charge of child abuse.
6. Better labeling of food and a removal of VAT from fruit, veg, wholemeal foods etc.

It seems pretty straight-forward to me tbh.

1.yes
2.yes
3.yes
4.never gonna happen
5.never gonna happen
6.There is no VAT on fresh veg, fruit and breads anyway

But points 1-3 are easily addressed with education. It may be too late to educate many parents but at least their kids should be growing up knowing better than their folks because they were being taught by school from day 1.
Then when the decisions are theirs to be made they are armed with the knowledge to choose.

t-ha

I, for one, would not have eaten the way I did if I had the info I do now. Even where parents DO know how to eat healthy it's easy for kids to dismiss their opinions - so number 3 is a winner with me.

Transform

The majority of overweight/fat people i know are not lazy.

They have lots of energy to do their work, raise their kids, drive everywhere and generally get on with their day, its just that taking care of their health is not a priority and they have not experienced enough hurt and pain to WANT to change.

By the time they come to me they are 90% of the way there i just have to act as a catalyst. If they have no interest then thats up to them and they can live a life or what if's instead...

nesf

Transform wrote:

The majority of overweight/fat people i know are not lazy.

They have lots of energy to do their work, raise their kids, drive everywhere and generally get on with their day, its just that taking care of their health is not a priority and they have not experienced enough hurt and pain to WANT to change.

By the time they come to me they are 90% of the way there i just have to act as a catalyst. If they have no interest then thats up to them and they can live a life or what if's instead...

I don't know, being honest about it the majority of really overweight people I know are very lazy about trying to change things. I'd agree with you about your average "a few pounds overweight with a belly" type of person where it might just be a matter of priorities but with the people I know who are obese it's an attitude problem that stops them losing weight and an unwillingness to change basic habits because it'd be too hard or too much effort.

Supercell

Hanley wrote:

Could you clarify what more there is to it?

You lost the weight on Lipotrim. You kept it off for a couple of months. You took your eye off the ball and went back to eating how you used to and now you're in the exact same place again correct?

I suppose unless you have experienced both its hard to appreciate how lethargic being overweight makes you. It takes far far more effort to get up and go out for a walk compared to someone who's fit and bristling with energy thats wanting burning off.
I'm not making any excuses for people being fat because for most they have become that way slowly but surely, especially after school/uni and getting an office based job in particular. I'm just saying its not fair to just brush stroke all very overweight/obese people as being lazy, it honestly takes a huge will and determination to permanently change your life for the better especially if you just dont have any energy at all.

Calling someone overweight lazy really doesnt do anything to help their self esteem and motivate them to loose the weight they gained.
The meathead argument that all fatties are lazy so and so's is a little annoying, maybe some are, maybe even many, but if thats your idea of how to help, well I think you really don't understand what its like in fatsville and how hard it is to leave it.

Thankfully the likes of Transform, G'em, Dagon etc and others here do seem to appreciate this and do motivate many many readers here (myself included) to get off my ass and change this time the right way rather than a faddy diet (hate the word diet..it implys a loss of something worthwhile).

estar

isnt the point that everyones different

you talk about overweight people as if they were a different species

they are lazy, energetic, stressed and not stressed just like everyone else.

i know plenty of happy fat people and also unhappy fat people

i also know people who thought that losing weight would change their lives and make them really happy, and found, they were still themselves afterwards just thinner. still unhappy.

its how you think of yourself that matters - how much you value yourself.

if you value yourself you will put the time aside to keep healthy. that doesnt mean thin or super fit. it just means average and healthy

im thirteen stone and size 14 and am perfectly healthy. i have good blood
pressure, good cholesterol and eat a healthy diet.

in fact im far healthier than when i was a size ten.

and far happier, i have more friends now, have more energy and
just take the odd bit of exercise.

go figure..............

i think that unless you are into competitive sport, then the gym is
not the big answer everyone thinks it is, moderation is the key.

otherwise you are just replacing one emotional blocker with another.

moderation moderation moderation, and being in touch with your emotions
so that you acknowledge them rather than eat, drink smoke or go to the gym too much......................

nesf

Longfield wrote:

It takes far far more effort to get up and go out for a walk compared to someone who's fit and bristling with energy thats wanting burning off.

Yeah but the flipside of that is that the overweight person will (generally) get more out of a walk than a very fit person. As you get fitter losing fat gets "harder". The mistake a lot of very heavy people make I think is to imagine that they should be doing what very fit people are doing when all they really need to do is bump up their activity level and keep increasing it as they get fitter. In my (uneducated) opinion anyway.

Edit: That and taking a long hard look at your diet is probably going to be more fruitful when you're starting from a position of being overweight anyway. I took g'em's and other's advice on my diet and just introduced changes here and there and have lost 10lbs over the last month without cutting back hugely on food or changing my activity level much. It'll plateau soon and I'll have to start working harder to keep losing weight but the initial losses are the easy ones to achieve and can give you some encouragement as to continue with it and keep going. Small sustained change will always be better than large but short lived changes in lifestyle in this matter. Once you've got some weight lost and you're feeling a bit more energetic start looking at introducing harder exercise but you'll do fine at the very start to just walk instead of drive the odd time and cutting the junk out of your diet.

rubadub

Diamondmaker wrote:

5. Make feeding your children crap all the time a criminal charge of child abuse.

5.never gonna happen
6.There is no VAT on fresh veg, fruit and breads anyway

Some Vegan of veggie couple were prosecuted recently after their baby died from a poor diet. Obviously that is extreme and rare, I do agree it is not going to happen (a law).

When I was in school milk was subsidised so kids got their carton per day, about 80% of the class got it. Maybe other healthy foods should be subsidised in schools. There might be no VAT on veg fruit etc, but maybe it also should be subsidised a bit. I mentioned government run gyms before, the costs of these and subsidised foods could pay for themselves with the benefits (less hospital time, less people sick from work for the economy on the whole)

estar

i have to say i do agree with that ruling

no child should be forced to do without nutrients just
because of a belief system

i also think that the price of good food should be reduced
and the price of crappy food increased

i spend a fortune on healthy food, when if i lived on mars
bars and chips i could exist on about 3 euro a day

chocolate should be taxed and organic fruit and veg
should be really cheap - and also decent meat

tesco et al should be prosecuted for selling stringy gross
intervention style meat

they should be forced to support local farmers and butchers
rather than shipping it in from outer mongolia

when i was growing up we could always locate who are meat
was from - which farm - through the butcher.

it wasnt even that expensive.

if people who are a little overweight realised that they are just a
giant equation - what goes in has to come off and it really is that
simple - and also if they focused on the food pyramid

and had their five f n veg a day, three diary, three carb, one meat

by the time you've all that eaten there really is very little room
for anything else !!!

nesf

rubadub wrote:

Some Vegan of veggie couple were prosecuted recently after their baby died from a poor diet. Obviously that is extreme and rare, I do agree it is not going to happen (a law).

I know a few committed vegans whose opinion is that no child should be put on a vegan diet. There point of view is that veganism is a moral viewpoint and that the parents shouldn't make that decision on their behalf considering that it isn't the healthiest thing for kids to be on. As one of them said to me, apart from moral reasons there isn't really a great reason not to eat fish (in general).

ali.c

I also dont agree that the labelling of overweight/obese people as lazy is constructive. just thinking out loud here but to the undertrained eye there at times does not appear to be a huge difference in how over-weight/skiny people eat/ It was only when i starting observing my own habits that i started to notice other peoples habits and how they were different from relatively in shape people. Equally there are a large number of people around who look in shape but in reality there eating habits are far from desirable. If one wanted to lose weight there is a temptation to follow by example but without knowing the full in and outs of someone's lifestyle its easy to miss things that are important relative to keeping that person thin. Just some observations. Similarly its like when people say initally you have to completely change ur lifestlye and eating habits and they take on too much and then fail. nothing less than 100% but some people myself including work best on measured moderation and building it up from there. Just some thoughts

@nesf congrats on the weightloss!!

Supercell

ali.c wrote:

Similarly its like when people say initally you have to completely change ur lifestlye and eating habits and they take on too much and then fail. nothing less than 100% but some people myself including work best on measured moderation and building it up from there. Just some thoughts

@nesf congrats on the weightloss!!

Great post ali, thanks!
I think you are hitting the nail on the head there - "measured moderation and building from there", that's a winning formula I reckon.

Drastic changes probably will lead to drastic fall backs as I can attest to. Changing at a sensible pace is probably going to result in a more sensible long term eating and fitness regime that results in overweight people stabilising on a healthy weight without the mentality that they are on a permanent "diet".

Nb also congrats nesf, fair play on loosing your weight.

Hanley

Longfield wrote:

I suppose unless you have experienced both its hard to appreciate how lethargic being overweight makes you. It takes far far more effort to get up and go out for a walk compared to someone who's fit and bristling with energy thats wanting burning off.

I guess I can sort of relate here. About 8-10 months ago I went thru some VERY hard training cycles and my nutrition and sleep were crap. It was really effecting my quality of life, so much so that I didn't want to do anything after traning than sit on my arse. I took a step back, worked some things out and I rapidly improved. Now I train harder and still have more energy. It took a commited and consistant effort but it payed off

I'm not making any excuses for people being fat because for most they have become that way slowly but surely, especially after school/uni and getting an office based job in particular. I'm just saying its not fair to just brush stroke all very overweight/obese people as being lazy, it honestly takes a huge will and determination to permanently change your life for the better especially if you just dont have any energy at all.

Ok well maybe "un-motivated" would be a more fitting term...? Intrinsicly I still believe there's a laziness aspect to it tho. But allow me to explain, it takes alot of effort to make the changes needed. And oftentimes it's alot easier to say "ohhh there's so much to do, it's all so overwhelming, where do I start? Why should I even bother?". In this case I feel someone's too lazy to identify what they need to do or to make the neccessary changes and stick with them. Of course it's hard, and of course it takes a tremendous amount of willpower. And blieve me, I've the upmost respect for people who actually follow thru with it and make radical changes (for the better too for the most part), but for every "success" there's multiple failures. What seperates them? In my opinion it's a lack of motivation and the laziness to not seek out or stick to proven weight loss methods.

Calling someone overweight lazy really doesnt do anything to help their self esteem and motivate them to loose the weight they gained.
The meathead argument that all fatties are lazy so and so's is a little annoying, maybe some are, maybe even many, but if thats your idea of how to help, well I think you really don't understand what its like in fatsville and how hard it is to leave it.

Meathead...? Nice, good to see the sterotypes go both ways. I wonder how I'm evre gonna finish the final year of my accounting degree now since the muscle must be sapping my brain power

If someone ever asks me for help, and is genuine about it and I beleive they'll put the neccessary work in then I'll go out of my way to help. I'll literally make it a priority. But when people come out with a "woah is me.. I've tried everything and nothing works" attitude then I think that before they can implement lifestyle changes they need to take a serious look at the mental side of things and accept that it's going to take CONSISTENT hardwork.

That really is what it all boils down to, consistency. Anyone can put the effort in for a month or 2 (new years resolutions?) but what seperates those who make it, from those who don't (in all aspects of life really) is that those who succeed put the work and effort in consistenly for sustained periods of time.

I'm kinda worried that this is going to come across TOO preachy/blunt but it's just how I feel and I really don't intend to cause offence to anyone and if anyone does have a problem with it then pm me with the relevant parts and I'll try make it a bit more PC.

nesf

Hanley wrote:

That really is what it all boils down to, consistency. Anyone can put the effort in for a month or 2 (new years resolutions?) but what seperates those who make it, from those who don't (in all aspects of life really) is that those who succeed put the work and effort in consistenly for sustained periods of time.

I couldn't agree more. Your natural advantages will only ever take you so far, to get the rest of the way you need to put in the work and keep at it. From academics to athletics this holds true. Everyone "plateaus" at some point and needs to up their effort.

Sleepy

Robbing g'em's sig from Team Test:

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle

t-ha

Hanley wrote:

If someone ever asks me for help, and is genuine about it and I beleive they'll put the neccessary work in then I'll go out of my way to help. I'll literally make it a priority. But when people come out with a "woah is me.. I've tried everything and nothing works" attitude then I think that before they can implement lifestyle changes they need to take a serious look at the mental side of things and accept that it's going to take CONSISTENT hardwork.

That really is what it all boils down to, consistency. Anyone can put the effort in for a month or 2 (new years resolutions?) but what seperates those who make it, from those who don't (in all aspects of life really) is that those who succeed put the work and effort in consistenly for sustained periods of time.

Good post Hanley, especially the bit about prioritising and consistency. Some fat people are just generally lacking in motivation, but alot of overweight people aren't that lazy & are very successful in other areas of their lives, but just fall down on the weight issue - so this obviously comes down to a matter of priorities.

Look at someone like Mary Harney - whatever about the health service you can't accuse her of being a lazy person, yet she carries alot of extra weight. I've no doubt (saving some medical reason I'm unaware of) she could get in shape if she actually prioritised it, especially in the first period of the healthier lifestyle, before she'ld have developed good habits and found her groove, so to speak.

Another thing about losing weight is that you've got to put the work in yourself & there's really no way around it. Alot of successful, motivated people I know are very good at maximising their time using delegation, outsourcing and so on to get things done quickly. The problem is that when it comes to health/fitness you've got to put the time in down at the front line - you can't delegate it to someone else, you can't buy it, there are no loopholes to exploit. Mere gym attendance garauntees nothing.

lizzyvera

Overweight people lose weight if they just eat normally and do normal amount of walking etc.
People in work are amazed that I walk 5 miles there and back but I'm amazed that they don't (esp in this weather in Malahide by the sea!) but they DO go to the gym and walk, maybe jog a little, on the treadmills.
I'm not into fitness but I have a body that works, might as well use it and save some money, the environment and a few kcal.

I was a chubby child but once I got into my teens I got obsessive about my weight. I've seen it happen to a few people.

ali.c

lizzyvera wrote:

Overweight people lose weight if they just eat normally and do normal amount of walking etc.

Actually i have to disagree with that to some extent. Just an example but my bf is naturally lean (you can see abs all the time and has been that way since well forever) now i have eaten the same diet as him (only smaller portions, at my heaviest i would of a stone and a half heavier than him btw) and had a similar lifestyle to him only i was overweight he stayed lean. The problem with just doing what "normal" people do is that sometimes even though they are lean/slim they dont always eat all that well or excercise loads.

Though i do agree on the making excercise part of your daily routine by walking to work etc.

Hanley

Yeah the argument could be made that your boyfriend is eating and exercising at a maintenace level for himself and by copying him that's all you're doing too... Plus you have to account for metabolic differences.

And to the other poster, what exactly is "normal" anyway?

Gator

This is something that really pisses me, people complaining about being overweight and then hoarding food into their mouths.

In my canteen I see people who can bearly walk, thighs are chaffing off each other, plate stacked up to the ceiling with chips, burgers topped off with artery clogging sauces and then they go over and pick up a can of f*ck*ing diet coke!!

Ask me arse, you either go in full steam or do nothing and live life unhealthy.

You will have my support if you put genuwine effort in but otherwise head off.

rubadub

Hanley wrote:

And to the other poster, what exactly is "normal" anyway?

My idea of normal would be "textbook normal/ideal" a man doing 2500-3000kcal of work per day and ingesting the same amount to equal that. The average person on the street is certainly not "ideal", thats why people should distinguish between "ideal" and average. I am sure I am far below the average weight for an irishman of my age, yet I am still not at my "textbook ideal" weight. I think the average consumption is 4000kcal in Ireland per day, which is massive since I doubt the average calorie expenditure is close to that.

Just an example but my bf is naturally lean (you can see abs all the time and has been that way since well forever) now i have eaten the same diet as him (only smaller portions, at my heaviest i would of a stone and a half heavier than him btw) and had a similar lifestyle to him only i was overweight he stayed lean.

Have you ever tried calculating your calorie intake & expenditure? I have seen a few programs and read that differences in metabolism are hugely overrated. If you 2 twins go for a walk and one weighs more than the other then their calorie expenditure is more, many "calculators" do not take age, weight, height, sex BF% etc into account.
I know 2 girls who reckon they eat the same amounts, but when I see them sit down to "the same meal" (which they do, sit down to that is) I would estimate one ingests ~40% more than the other.
I know 2 guys who are "naturally skinny", but it is only since I got properly into calorie counting that I see they have a normal metabolism and really just ingest feck all calories.

t-ha

rubadub wrote:

I know 2 guys who are "naturally skinny", but it is only since I got properly into calorie counting that I see they have a normal metabolism and really just ingest feck all calories.

Good point - I don't know anyone who genuinely eats ALOT and still stays skinny. I know plenty of people who eat ALL THEY WANT and stay skinny - but that's a different matter entirely. There are even people in that last group who eat massive amounts of food in one go and still stay skinny, but the thing is that if you hang around with them long enough you start to see that they go through extended periods of not eating much/anything that more than make up for the times when they eat big & alot of the time if you point this out to them it'll be news to them too. Another factor is how active they might be.

Like I say I don't know anyone who eats far more calories than they could possibly be using up that isn't putting on weight through some magical lightening-quick metabolism.