Lateral thinking applied to road design

Membrane

Two articles on a method that challenges conventional thinking about
road design:

http://www.fastandsafe.org.nz/Pages/Media/EndofTrafficLights.htm

http://www.fastandsafe.org.nz/Pages/Media/Monderman.htm

flatface

very interesting! I find it a wierd experience to drive a car on a freshly made road with no markings etc. - shows how much I rely on the same to sleep-drive around the place. I'm sure plenty of folk would give the old "wouldn't work in Ireland" stance to it but, hey, maybe it would...

theo4130

"We want small accidents, in order to prevent serious ones in which people get hurt," he said yesterday.
this is wrong, just because you fall and cut your knee today doesnt mean you wont fall and break your neck tomorrow.
the system may work but what he said above is ridiculous,

theo4130

theo4130 wrote:

"We want small accidents, in order to prevent serious ones in which people get hurt," he said yesterday.
this is wrong, just because you fall and cut your knee today doesnt mean you wont fall and break your neck tomorrow.
the system may work but what he said above is ridiculous,

On the contrary, I'd say it is exactly right.

If you run across a road and a car clips you, just touches you, you're not gonna try to run across the road the next time.

If you're cycling through town at 35kph, and some idiot steps in front of you and you smash into them, they're gonna be more observant next time, and you're going to take it easier.

It's a very interesting idea, I'd love to see it happen somewhere closer to home, but to be honest, could not see it working in a busy metropolitan area.

markpb

I like the thinking behind this (it's not the first time I've heard of it) but in practice, I'm not sure.

Last summer the lights near my house (junction Swords road / Santry avenue) were out. It worked better for cars, everyone approached the junction more cautiously and there was more courtesy between drivers.

The downside came when there was a flow of traffic in any one direction. People from other directions just cut out and couldn't go anywhere. Cyclists and motorcyclists were extremely disadvantaged because, while drivers might stop to let another driver out, they never once stopped to let a cyclist out. While a low impact two car collision isn't worth worrying about, having someone drive into the side of a bike in the middle of a junction is frightening.

Civilian_Target

This is definitely a good idea in certain circumstances, and there are many places where such circumstances exist. I'd like to see it implemented on South Ealing Main St. for one.

Itsfixed

In Celbridge, where I moved to recently, an example of the removal of traffic lights has sort of happened. Lights had been installed to manage what are very awkward two and three-way junctions on both sides of a small arterial bridge crossing the river liffey but apparently (this is before I moved there) after a week or two of being used, a number of business owners in the main street created a bit of a ruckus and somehow got Kildare council to turn them off.

I think their logic was that traffic flowed more freely than without the lights (personally I'm not convinced yet) but it occurs to me that some of the principles in the NZ report are probably being inadvertently being applied here as motorists have to look out for each other. I've never seen an accident at either junction.

The lights are still there, with the council covers on them, but still switched off. Celbridge, despite itsrapidly growing size, doesn't even have a town council, so I'm amazed anyone managed to do this.

RainyDay

Could be very difficult for those with limited or no vision! I understand the designers of Adamstown are implementing some 'shared space' areas.

Capt'n Midnight

One concept is to keep the conflict area busy, so people entering the area can see how it works. Also means less time wondering what to do. Making junctions LOOK dangerous makes them safer because people take more care.

Compare this to the junctions with 4 stop signs.

DirkVoodoo

It's an interesting theory, but so far only applied to a town of 50,000 people. Could such a scheme be implemented successfully in an urban sprawl like New York where drivers already ignore pedestrian lights? Also, like he says, it only works where an organised highway system is in place...guess that rules us out.

EDIT: on the point of collisions im inclined to agree. i remember someone a few years ago saying all learner drivers should be involved in a small, non-fatal (duh) crash at some point. It reminds people not to be casual and that YES, accidents do happen to them to. A feeling of vulnerability is a healthy thing in traffic management.

milod

Here's another apparent success story from London...

http://womans-world.co.uk/streets-ahead.html see the section 'London Lessons'

I worked in the area in 2001 and experienced this setup - it's probably more pedestrian than bike friendly as it slows down all 'wheeled' transport - I used to avoid the area entirely if I was in a rush!

theo4130

Deleted User wrote:

On the contrary, I'd say it is exactly right.

If you run across a road and a car clips you (you are just being plain stupid), just touches you, you're not gonna try to run across the road the next time.

If you're cycling through town at 35kph, and some idiot steps in front of you and you smash into them (thats their fault, they are not going to go around telling the whole town what happened to stop it happening again), they're gonna be more observant next time, and you're going to take it easier.

It's a very interesting idea, I'd love to see it happen somewhere closer to home, but to be honest, could not see it working in a busy metropolitan area.

its not just one person they are talking about, one person may get a small knock from a car, possibly a totally different person might die the next day from a bad collision,
personally seeing the way some people behave on the roads where i live it would not work.