Improving my Bench

Diamondmaker

Im making good headway on my benching.

Like to know what other excercises contribute to improving this other than of coutrse benching.

Currently I shoulder press, bicep curl, lat tricep pull down and shrugs.

what can I add?
cheers

Oh yeah also...For a target re benching........
What % of bodyweight ( as a rough guide ) is a good measure of average, good, better.

tribulus

Floor Presses are great.
Incline Presses
DB Presses.

I haven tried them but illegal wides are supposed to be great for strength off the chest.

For lat work, I would do plenty of rows , DB, BB, cable, just hammer your lats.

I think you'd want to be able to do bodyweight for 6-8 reps anyway, that would be okay-ish imo. 1.5x BW would be quite good for a single and 2x BW would be very impressive.

Hanley

tribulus wrote:

Floor Presses are great.
Incline Presses
DB Presses.

I haven tried them but illegal wides are supposed to be great for strength off the chest.

For lat work, I would do plenty of rows , DB, BB, cable, just hammer your lats.

I think you'd want to be able to do bodyweight for 6-8 reps anyway, that would be okay-ish imo. 1.5x BW would be quite good for a single and 2x BW would be very impressive.

'nuff said really.

LOTS of lat work will do wonders for your bench 1-2 exercises per day, 3x a week in the 3x8-15 rep range.

Degsy

Hanley wrote:

'nuff said really.

LOTS of lat work will do wonders for your bench 1-2 exercises per day, 3x a week in the 3x8-15 rep range.

Latwork three times a week?Would you not overtrain the hell out of yourself?

Hanley

Degsy wrote:

Latwork three times a week?Would you not overtrain the hell out of yourself?

Nah, not if you build uo to it. For example here's what I'd usually do for my lats and upper back;

Sunday: (top end bench day)
Pulls up 4x8
Face Pulls 3-5x15

Wednesday: (deadlift day)
Pull downs 3x15
Chest supported rows 3x12

Thursday: (low end bench)
Seated Cable Row 3x12
Dumbbell row 1x20-30 (with about a 40kg 'bell)

Obviously if you try to jump straight in that you'l over train the hell out of yourself but if you build up gradually it'll be no problem.

I'd do 2 exercises on your "back" day, which most people do already.

Then add in 1 exercise on your top end (tricep) bench day, and one of your bottom end day (chest). You don't want to push any of the sets to failure. Stop with a coupe of reps in the bag (except on he dumbbell rows and hte pull ups).

After maybe 2/3 weeks you can add in another exercise on both bench days, again not going to failure. Once you get used to this (after maybe another 2 weeks..) you can really start to push the amount of effort you put into it.

You might also want to note that I don't have anything there that's gonna put any stress on my lower back (eg bent over rows). I'm not saying you can't have them in, but when you're deadlifting, squatting, doing pull thrus and good mornings all in the one week I believe you need to manage the volume of work your lower back does.

Degsy

You might have something there.I do back once a week and thats it,deadlift,lat pulldowns,seated row,cable row and face pulls and i never seem to get as sore as i would on chest day,tbh i'm not sure if my lats are getting worked properly at all.

Hanley

The chest's alot easier to train, and alot more easily fatigued. That's probably why you "feel" it more. I never experience DOMs in my lats, but I know they're getting worked!!

High volume, multiple time per week training is the way to go if you're looking for strength gains. And it ain't half bad for adding muscle either.

davyjose

Degsy wrote:

You might have something there.I do back once a week and thats it,deadlift,lat pulldowns,seated row,cable row and face pulls and i never seem to get as sore as i would on chest day,tbh i'm not sure if my lats are getting worked properly at all.

I'm the same Degsy, that's very interesting what you say hanly - I might start working lats twice a week.

Degsy

The only thing i'd be concerned about would be the extra work your biceps would have to do if you were training your lats twice,three times a week as well as training your arms on seperate days.Lat pulldowns involve a lot of bicep work,would it not risk overtraining and/or injuring the arms?

Hanley

I don't wish to be rude, but how big are your arms?

I'd say the chances are they could do with some traning. I train lats 3x a week, and train biceps 2x a week too, compounded with deadlifts, RDLs and a whole host of other stuff you'd expect to lead to "overtraning", but guess what has happened.... my arms have exploded in the last 6 months.

Bottom line, most people are so afraid of "overtrainng" that they use it as an excuse not to push themselves to the limit in the gym and then they wonder why they're making no progress.

This wasn't specifically aimed at you Degsy, just part of a much larger problem I've begun to see recently. I wonder if anyone who contiunally goes on about overtraining has ever actually experienced it.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as over trainnig, just under conditioning.

Degsy

Hanley wrote:

I don't wish to be rude, but how big are your arms?

17.5 inches..up 1.5 from this time last year.

Hanley

Degsy wrote:

17.5 inches..up 1.5 from this time last year.

Hmmm.. well in that case quit listening to me cos whatever you're doing's working!

davyjose

Hanley wrote:

Bottom line, most people are so afraid of "overtrainng" that they use it as an excuse not to push themselves to the limit in the gym and then they wonder why they're making no progress.

This wasn't specifically aimed at you Degsy, just part of a much larger problem I've begun to see recently. I wonder if anyone who contiunally goes on about overtraining has ever actually experienced it.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as over trainnig, just under conditioning.

I read an article in t-nation recently saying pretty much EXACTLY what you've just said; I'd well believe it.

Hanley

Really? Have you got a link to it handy?

It's something that I well believe, and I'm willing to put my ass on the line with a lttle experiment to prove it. It's called Sheiko training, and it's probably Mike Mentzer's worst nightmare.

Here's the first day of the 4 weeks cycle: (and keep in mind you're doing something similar to day 1 3times in the week plus one catch all day with chest, tricep and shoulder work)

WEDNESDAY:
Sumo deadlift - 95kg x4, 115kg x4, 132.5kg 2x3, 152.5kg 5x3

Bench - 65kg x5. 77.5kg x5, 90kg 2x4, 97.5kg 2x3, 105kg 2x2, 97.5kg 2x3, 90kg x4, 85kg x6, 65kg x10

Seated Dumbbell Press - 5x10

Sumo deadlift - 95kg x4, 115kg x4, 132.5kg 5x4

Good Mornings - 5x5

That's a pretty typical day. If I can manage 16 of those over 4 weeks without over training and still here people complain that they're over trained I'll be opening cans of whoop ass left, right and centre!!

I know it's gone a bit OT, but basically, volume's the key to improving any lift.

Degsy

You might be right about this overtraining malarkey.When i started out i'd do three full-body workouts per week,monday,wednesday and friday just to get the strength up.I do remember feeling crap a few times with that sort of workload but i certainly didnt shrink or anything.However,it was only when i started the two day split i noticed large size and strength gains and i've been afraid to sacrifice them as the wisdom of the day tells you to train each body part only once a week.I'm positive i could handle more training but would it maximise potential or harm it?

Hanley

Do as little work as you need to to see gains... If you can make 95% of the gains training 20 mintues 3x a week, then is there REALLY any need to spend 3 hours in the gym 5x a week to get the extra 5%?

The reason I'm doing what I'm doing now is because I've literally nothing on since I'm on summer holidays from college, so any time Im not in the gym i'll be eating or sleeping.

Neamhshuntasach

i'd been lifting weights for over a year working most muscle groups a few times a week and i was only seeing minimal gains. i was spending around 90 mins in the gym and it really took a lot outta me.

then i got talking to a bodybuilder who told me i was overtraining and that there was no need to hit one muscle more than once a week, or even more than once directly in a session.

my split is

monday - pull

deadlift 5x5
barbell row 5x5
hammer curl 5x5

wednesday - push

bench press 5x5
shoulder press 5x5
weighted tricep dips 5x5

friday

squat 5x5
sldl 5x5
calf raises 12x3
weighted hanging leg raises 12x3

i've been doing this, varying exercises, but keeping the compounds, every 20 weeks for the past year and have seem tremendous results. in the past year i've added 80 kgs to my bench, 120 kgs to my deadlift and 140 kgs to my squat.

i dont know if overtraining affects everyone but it certainly affected me. and once i corrected it i seen huge gains. and i'm in and outta the gym in 50 mins. i never believed that less time or less exercises would mean more gains. but i was definitly convinced. the same has happened for my training partner.

Roper

Well, I think you CAN overtrain, indeed I have overtrained in the past, but I also don't think that most people who are afraid of it are anywhere near doing it!

Now thats in general fitness terms, I'm no bodybuilder so for gaining size I wouldn't know whether overtraining could affect gains.

t-ha

My take on it is this - it's EASY to over-train, all you have to do is stay in the gym for 4 hours at a time without stopping or eating, and preferably do sessions like that every day or twice a day sometimes.

On the other hand, if your weight-lifting workouts are an hour or less, and you're doing about 4 of them a week, your recovery abilities would have to suck for you to over-train and you should be looking at how you eat/sleep etc. rather than at taming down workouts.

Summary - even half hearted workouts done too often and for too long can lead to overtraining. Much better to hit the gym hard, psyche up for EVERY set (no 'filler' sets) and make them count.

As for training bodyparts more than once a week? Sure, why not, but use your head. You can't do a 'leg-day' the way BBers would do them (with squats, lunges, extensions, leg-curls, drop-sets, post-fatigues, etc. etc., until your legs simply do.not.function anymore) and expect to do it again in 2 days*. However, squats on one day, cleans on another, romanian deadlifts a few days after that - no problem as long as you're not completely anhialating your legs each time you go in.

Same with any bodypart, and biceps are anecdotally alot better suited to multiple sessions per week than other bigger muscles anyway. Also, the lat-pulldown can be hard on the biceps or fairly easy on it depending on your emphasis. Emphasise your hands coming down and you'll feel it in your arms. Emphasise your elbows pulling back and you'll feel it much more in your back?


*I have no problem supplying a BBers 'leg-day' workout from one of Chris Thibeadeau's training books to anyone who thinks otherwise!

Hanley

I should probabaly clarify what I said earlier...

I think most people WILL overtrain when they're doing typical BB stuff (ie multi drop sets, lots of isolation work to failure...).

BUT I think it would be a hell of a lot harder overtraining with a volume approach. For instance multiple sets of 3 between 75-85% of your 1 rep max. I'm fairly confident this can be done 2-3x a week, and still be capable of doing the same lift twice per session (ie squat first, then do a bench movement and then come back and do something like front/box/paused/beltlesss squats).

The former is obviously better for competitive bodybuilders, whereas the latter is probably more suited to competitive powerlifters/weightlifters.

For the general population somewhere in the middle's probably optimal.

Transform

What is your body fat, height and weight?