Irish Hosts - Why are they so expensive?

Sully

Hey all

Iv been researching some of Irelands hosts (Blacknight, Hosting365 and Digiweb) for dedicated and reseller accounts. We already have one in the states (access isnt required, so location didnt really affect my choice) but decided to bring some business home if the price was right.

From what I can gather, and iv had someone else look into it as well - Irish hosts are not only expensive but do not offer the same quality of hosting as other hosts do? The guy I seeked advise from has plenty of experience and always shops around for the best deals, and he was the one who secured our current dedicated (managed). He compared his current package to the company's listed above, and there was no matching them -- his was a lot better, and not as expensive.

Hes not Irish but was supprised at the cost of these hosts and expressed such shock at what he called a "complete rip-off". Obviously they are getting business, from Irish people who probably want to stick closer to home with a company they no - or just want the company someone told them to go to or even for just access to the serves (physicaly). Im just supprised at seeing these other packages, how can Irish company's not offer a competitive package?

Just curious, is it a case of rip-of-ireland or is there a genuine reason?

TheHost

Don't know the reason, but I want to move from the UK to Ireland and also find the hosting too dear to make it worth my while.

:mad:

Sully

TheHost wrote:

Don't know the reason, but I want to move from the UK to Ireland and also find the hosting too dear to make it worth my while.

:mad:

Well from what I can gather from looking at the offcers, Blacknight are the cheapest. But, I didnt do much deep looking.

Wouldnt you consider just having the server in the UK and moving over? Or do you need physical access?

Tom Dunne

Sully wrote:

Just curious, is it a case of rip-of-ireland or is there a genuine reason?

Personally, I believe it is the same old story - they charge what they like, because they can.

Sully

tom dunne wrote:

Personally, I believe it is the same old story - they charge what they like, because they can.

Would you use any of the Irish hosts?

jor el

I use Hosting365 and I'm on their Personal Linux plan at €40 a year for 1G storage, 10G monthly transfer, 2xMySQL DBs & 100 email addresses. I thought this wasn't too bad really.

I take it you guys are using much larger (business) solutions and as such there may be a bigger difference, but can I ask what UK & US based hosts you use and would there be much of a saving from what I currently pay?

I looked at both Hosting365 and Blacknight but they don't have the same options available so direct comparison is not possible but for 1G storage the Hosting365 plan was cheaper (though Blacknight give a larger transfer limit on their 1G package but is more than twice the price).

Sully

Thing is, if you move outside Ireland you can get a starter option with a LOT better service quality then your currently being offered. See:

http://www.ayksolutions.com/mod.php?mod=siteinfo&id=11

http://www.ayksolutions.com/mod.php?mod=siteinfo&id=12

Its an American company, but they seem a lot better to me.

dahamsta

Economics 101 guys. Sorry, I'm not trying to be smart, but it's as simple as that. Here's a practical example with genuine facts that might explain it: myself and a couple of colleagues are currently developing a data center in Cork, and we'll compete primarily on service and location. Not price, simply because we can't: backhaul to Cork costs three times what you'd pay in Dublin, for what should be obvious reasons.

I'm not sure how can you comment on quality if you haven't actually used the service. It's like saying Tesco is better than Dunnes, without actually going into Dunnes.

adam

Sully

Adam;

Well why pay more, for less? Even if irish providers gave excellent support and equipment - the other provider gives excellent packages. Used them before, and they have been good with support also..

dahamsta

Because it's not all about price Sully, and when it is about price it should be about value for money across the board, not just what disk and wire you get for the price. Generally speaking, the customer service you'll get from an Irish provider is better than most, not just because they want to, but because they have to: it's all they have to compete on. Of course there's also supporting indigenous business, although that's more important to some than others.

BTW, I'm not just coming at this from a service provider pov. I've been a hosting customer myself for nigh on a decade; still am for a few customers that need to spread their properties around. I've dealt with hosting companies from bottom-end to high-end, and I'll tell you the support I get from the majority of US and UK-based companies: I get read to from scripts. Say what you like about Irish companies, I've never once been read to from a script by one.

I am a service provider though, and here's the difference: if you're a customer of mine right now, you get my mobile number, and if your server needs a reboot at 3am, I'll be the one that gets out of bed and drives to the DC to do it. (Until the summer that is, then I'll have lackies in the DC to do it for me. Well, when they become economical. Which means that'll be me too. Arse! )

adam

Sully

Fair enough, thats how you provide your service. I obviously have not tested out the Irish side of support but I would not move to a service which offers a low-scale pacakge at a higher price - just for support.

If im paying a high price, I want all things considered. Lack of support would make me move company, but I always found it relativley easy to deal with US companys (not on a personal level much) so there is no need.

Therefore, the packages being offered in Ireland are not anywhere near as good those offered in the US and other countries. Sure we might get a more personalised experience, but its not worth the price they are asking for the service your getting it at.

CoNfOuNd

Completely agree with Adam.

It's better to buy from an Irish company. You get better support and faster servers.

I'm in the same situation with providing 24 hour support. I'll give friendly advice and professional support to all customers. Irish companies normally go the extra mile that others won't.

With the price differences you mention, if you look at any country you will find huge differences in the market, but the Irish market is very competitive.

Sully

The Irish hosting providers (which I looked at) offering nothing in comparcement to the US ones. Limited space and bandwidth for a huge price.

In the Irish market, they offer small scale services which im sure is competitve amongst each other. Looking outside Ireland, you get a much better deal.

layke

I'd like to add after working for a well known Irish Hosting provider (back in the day) there are certain economical differences.

Bandwidth costs lots in Ireland, it's getting cheaper but comparing to the rest of Europe and the US it's a rip-off this is probably due to the fact that Eircom are still a monopoly. Staff wages are usually higher here then in the EU/US for this sort of work.

You have a few thousand customers who rent dedicated servers off you in the US where you only have a few hundred here (and that used to be a lot back when I was in the game). Therefore more customers = better deals as there's more money to play with and you can afford to cut your margin a bit.

There's all sorts of factors which come into play.

That said i've been out of the hosting game since 2000 so things may have changed a bit but that's what I gather from talking to my friend who owns the company.

dahamsta

Sully wrote:

The Irish hosting providers (which I looked at) offering nothing in comparcement to the US ones. Limited space and bandwidth for a huge price.

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. Irish hosting companies certainly can't - and shouldn't - compete against US and UK hosting companies, but they most certainly don't offer "nothing" for "huge prices". They're generally in about the same league as mid- to high-range providers in those countries, at a slightly higher price. Of course you can compare against budget operators in the US and the UK, but you get what you pay for with those companies. And there are no budget operators in Ireland; or rather there appear to be, until you do a traceroute on their servers. Again, Irish companies have to provide a quality service, they have no choice in the matter.

adam

Sully

I just cant understand why in the US or UK they can offer more space, bandwith etc at the same/lower cost and Ireland has to offer less and charge more?

Iv picked the US company because I get more for my money. Id like to have picked an Irish company but im not getting my moneys worth (maybe in the Irish market I could, but in general - if I can get it cheaper and better elsewhere -- I will).

dahamsta

Asked and answered.

Sully

No you just said I was comparing apples with oranges and that they shouldnt and cant.

I dont see why they cant, or shouldnt. They should offer somewat similar service to what other providers are offering. Maybe thats how Irish Hosts operate for now - low scale, high price. I see US hosts and others offering higher scale at a low or only slightly higher price.

Peteee

I have hosting with hosting365 (40 euro a year, linux package) and they've been great.

Also, 4 hops to hosting365, 8 hops to dreamhost.com

rogue-entity

I blame bandwidth costs pure and simple. Backhaul from companies like Level3, Qwest, Sprint, BT or Eircom, costs an outrageous amount here, and tack on the 21%VAT on top of that again, and you have, at a guess, the biggest expense borne by most datacentres in the country, and in turn, a cost passed onto their customers, the hosting companies.

Eircom's monopoly could be to blame too I guess, do hosts buy their physical connections from Eircom, or directly from companies like Level3.

Sully

Bandwidth - Blame Eircom. I can understand that.

Space issue - why offer such a small amount of space for such a high price?

dahamsta

How much space do you need exactly? Most hosting operators in Ireland offer space in the gigabytes, if you're actually transferring that in any quantity it's actually bandwidth you should be worrying about, not space. If you're not transferring it, wtf would you want it for?

You know most hosts oversell, right? They might say you can have eight hard disks worth of space, but just you try using it.

adam

layke

Been away for the last few days but to add that hosting in Ireland will help your Google listing because its an Irish and not US IP.
People have already told you why you pay less in the US.

Quality, not quantity. Anyway if your happy with what you got nuff said but don't blame Irish companies for it. Can you make shoes cheaper then some chinese kid? I don't think so.

PeteJones

Try www.webhost.ie - I use them and they have great customer service and good price packages.

monkey junkie

I would have to say I find the customer service from Irish hosting companies very poor. I've used both US and Irish companies, and the US ones are extremely polite and have a "the customer is always right" attitude, whereas the Irish ones have the usual level of Irish customer service (i.e. poor.)