New International Tournament Proposed

flsghujslkuo

There are suggestions the top two or top four placed teams in Six Nations and the Tri Nations might play each other as part of the proposed new international window.

The Southern Hemisphere unions could still veto the change in the international schedule but with the Sanzar officials having recently been in Dublin they would have been consulted in the planning process.

Downtime

I think the bottom 2 in the six nations should play the top 2 in the b competition and the winners in a round robin get to play in the six nations the folllowing year.

daveirl

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Diamondmaker

flsghujslkuo wrote:

There are suggestions the top two or top four placed teams in Six Nations and the Tri Nations might play each other as part of the proposed new international window.

The Southern Hemisphere unions could still veto the change in the international schedule but with the Sanzar officials having recently been in Dublin they would have been consulted in the planning process.

Could be used instead of the tour games to pair the top3 and the 3N teams in a mini tourny.

No extra games just 3 games in lieu of the tests with a bit of extra spice into it. Bottom 3 teams would lose out on playing 3N tests though

damnyanks

It's not really that different to the autumn internationals. Ok - it's slightly more structured, but same story just different spin.

I think these guys need a bigger break, there bodies will lose out in the long run.

Rugby calender is packed. Leave this out. If more international competition is wanted, include Argentina. The 6n and 3n teams will play eachother on a regular basis regardless.

flsghujslkuo

What about just expanding the current competitions:

Have a 2 tier Southern competition:

Tier 1
SA
NZ
Aus
Argentina


Tier 2
SA u/23 (or u/21)
NZ u/23 (or u/21)
Aus u/23 (or u/21)
Japan
Pacific Islanders

Northern hemisphere:
Tier 1
France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

Tier 2
France (u/23 or u/21)
England (u/23 or u/21)
Ireland (u/23 or u/21)
Portugal
Spain
Russia/Georgia combination team.

[Jackass]

I dont think any more international competitions make any sense, the calender is packed as it is.

However I do think the bottom placed 6N team should have a play-off with the winner of the Six-Nations B for a place in the 6N proper the next season.

A once off game in a neutral venue like a cup final, and this helps developing nations have something higher to aim for and the prospect of lots more money should they qualify and gives more meaning to the B tournament with a promotion/relegation scenario.

Also may make complacient unions or underproforming ones improve, all in the interest of the game.

(I also think 2 or 3 Italian teams should be broght in the Magners League. Would make the league more competitive and credible imo and would also help further improve the Italian game and help them keep home grown talent if they are playing at a higher level)

flsghujslkuo

Yea, I think the Italian teams should only have one team in the HC and the rest of them should play in the Bulmers League:

Anyway an expanded Tri-Nations and having a 2 Tier system in the leagues would probably work. While I don't agree with automatic relegation from the six nations, I think a playoff might work; e.g. Scotland vs Spain to stay in Sic Nations proper; although if scotland lost that play off it would probably be the end of rugby in Scotland.

daveirl

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Diamondmaker

Nick wrote:

(I also think 2 or 3 Italian teams should be broght in the Magners League. Would make the league more competitive and credible imo and would also help further improve the Italian game and help them keep home grown talent if they are playing at a higher level)

I would love to see the Italian teams in the ML, much more appealing destinations to go on boozy away games to!

Oh and plus it would be good for rugby and stuff:)

flsghujslkuo

daveirl wrote:

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"Magners" as they call it in the UK is Irish, and is called Bulmers in Ireland and as a result it will always be Bulmers to me.

Like the marathon bar is sometimes called snickers by some people!

Datsun = Nissan

etc.

:rolleyes:

As an aside, it was originally supposed to be called Magners, but some copyright issue prevented that, so it was called Bulmers in this territory afaik.

daveirl

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Sangre

Actually the opposite afaik, they couldn't call it Bulmers in UK.

damnyanks

flsghujslkuo wrote:

What about just expanding the current competitions:

Have a 2 tier Southern competition:

Tier 1
SA
NZ
Aus
Argentina


Tier 2
SA u/23 (or u/21)
NZ u/23 (or u/21)
Aus u/23 (or u/21)
Japan
Pacific Islanders

Northern hemisphere:
Tier 1
France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

Tier 2
France (u/23 or u/21)
England (u/23 or u/21)
Ireland (u/23 or u/21)
Portugal
Spain
Russia/Georgia combination team.

Really like the tier 2 idea.

Malmedicine

damnyanks wrote:

Really like the tier 2 idea.

There already are two. The 6 nations B championships and the pacific 5 nations. As far as upgrading the competions, i'd be in favour of that. But not along the lines already given.

6 Nations ( as is expect with bottom team playing against top team from

6 Nations B (but must be played in 1 year not 2 as is present)

Georgia
Russia
Romania (can't believe it was left out up above)
Portugal
Argentina (have to start somewhere)
A.N Other (not under 21 / 23 , men against boys)

The rest don't have any ideas its kinda new so lets see how it plays out next few years.

damnyanks

I like the idea of the poorer teams playing the stronger teams U23's. It's good both for developing nations and younger players who just arent up to full international standard yet

daveirl

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Malmedicine

daveirl wrote:

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The gulf in standard IS MASSIVE i agree but should'nt somebody try to do something about it. I agree however the relegated country finacially would be ruined so this is a non runnner. What about including the some of the lesser national teams into the Euro shield or the Euro Challenge cup,

daveirl

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flsghujslkuo

Surley it was called Bulmers first and they had copyright issues in the UK not Ireland.

I pose the question: if you go down to the pub on a hot summers day and you wanted cider, do you ask for Bulmers or Magners?

I think it shows bulmers don't give a faik about Irish marketing and forgot where they came from. It's an insult to Irish people in my opinion, therefore I call it the Bulmers League.

So we're agreed then It's the Bulmers League!

We do have a Six Nations B championship at the moment but don't only three or foour sides compete?

Anyway what good is it in it's current format. Give Spain Russia a game and put them up against the U23's.

As regards it being a disater if a tier 2 side came up: my aren't you an elitist bunch! you portray an arrogance that I only thought was possible from the english or americans. Italy got their chance and took it. Let's face it the current system is not helping the likes of JApan and co. Japan have probably the best League outside of the Top 7 nations.

There is a marvelous turn and trick to British arrogance; its apparent unconsciousness makes it twice as effectual.-Catherine Drinker Bowen

daveirl

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flsghujslkuo

The cream should be able to rise to the top.

Hense the play off idea.

Italy got spanked by Ireland and France, give spain and co a shot!

daveirl

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flsghujslkuo

Wow you now sound like the kiwis did about Ireland 10-15 years ago; remember when Italy first join the 5 nations, they targeted Ireland.

Have you ever played any sport?

When you played at an OK level for a while against OK opposition then you get stuck at that level: you get away with mistakes an poor timing, and you keep doing them because you get away with it. but as soon as you step up in level then you get royally fopped in the rectum. As time goes by you learn and you get better. FACT: in order to improve you have to compete against people better than you. What would Ireland learn from putting 50-60 points on an Iberian team... nothing, what would an Iberian team learn.... A LOT!!!
it make take 5 or even ten years put with out it 50-60.

Screw the babas going over there have you seen the team; it looks like my grandmothers bingo group. with a couple of artificaial hips thrown in too.

In summary don't be arrogant or elitist.

daveirl

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flsghujslkuo

How would it be the end of rugby in scotland?

In the two tier system, they would be in a playoff against the winners of the second tier, and if they lose that playoff then they deserve to spend a season in the second tier and the winners deserve their chance in tier 1 (even if they go straight back down).

As regards individaual players playing out of their dept in a team, fine agreed. but a whole team (like a combined Iberia team) would learn a lot.

On a final rant, Scotish rugby was its own worst enemy, they built a stadium when they couldn't afford it, and as a result the rugby funding was not there for rugby development in the country. Ireland did the complete opposite; the IRFU waited and waited to build a stadium but after money was put into rugby development in Ireland.

Diamondmaker

damnyanks wrote:

I like the idea of the poorer teams playing the stronger teams U23's. It's good both for developing nations and younger players who just arent up to full international standard yet

Yeah it would be good physical conditioning to to be comng up against big front rowers and generally more physical older players.

Diamondmaker

flsghujslkuo wrote:

How would it be the end of rugby in scotland?

.

Thats easy, Scottish gates are pretty low for the ML and HC and to go any further down the rankings would see the 6N lose home support, the Borders cannot make a living and is disbanded and if Scotland got demoted to a division B, then that would be a financial disaster, many fans would desert tham in disgust and not much interest in Scotland V Portugal clashes from any one of any persuasion would be generated.

Rugby is never going to compete with soccer in Portugal say so to destroy it in Scotland ( for example ) to give the Portugese a season of thrashings only ot be relegated the next season is pointless.

The class difference between Italy and the division B teams is huge. Rugby wil always be a 2nd div team in many countries. It is not an easy sport to just play and it will never compete with soccer in any division 2 country.

flsghujslkuo

Diamondmaker wrote:

Thats easy, Scottish gates are pretty low for the ML and HC and to go any further down the rankings would see the 6N lose home support, the Borders cannot make a living and is disbanded and if Scotland got demoted to a division B, then that would be a financial disaster, many fans would desert tham in disgust and not much interest in Scotland V Portugal clashes from any one of any persuasion would be generated.

Rugby is never going to compete with soccer in Portugal say so to destroy it in Scotland ( for example ) to give the Portugese a season of thrashings only ot be relegated the next season is pointless.

The class difference between Italy and the division B teams is huge. Rugby wil always be a 2nd div team in many countries. It is not an easy sport to just play and it will never compete with soccer in any division 2 country.

Well then is it time for a culling. Darwin-ism etc. let them be a big fish in a small pond. Nah seriously though I think Italy had a fantastic year this year but normal order should be restored next year. Throughout the scotland italy game I think scotland should have won that even after giving away the tries at the start. Give Iberia a chance