Sick Pay

jjbrien

I need some advise on sick pay. My employer whant me to repay them for time when I was cerfied sick. Do I need to repay them anything. My doctor told me that legally I dont have to repay them anything and they dont have a leg to stand on as he certifed me as been sick and my employer accepted that. Can anybody advise me please?

aidan_walsh

Were you paid during your sick leave?

jjbrien

Yes I was.

ambman

were you out of work because of the job???

jjbrien

I was out because of a medical contion. Not work related.

c4cat

First you should ask your employer to give a written reason for them to ask for this refund, then take that written reason to a citizens advice centre

ambman

in that case you should not be paid and if you were they have every right to dock your next wage packet. otherwise we could all go on the sick. if you spent it tell them you didnt know and ask can you pay it back a tenner a week or so

Stark

From what I understand, your employer isn't obliged to pay you for the time you're sick. You get money from social welfare when you're sick. An employer worth their salt will then pay you the difference.

You should probably clarify with them that they're not just asking for the portion you would have gotten from social welfare back. Some employers will pay you all the money upfront, then expect you to claim off social welfare and pay them back that money.

Nordie

You do not have to pay back sick pay unless you claimed and received social welfare benefit too, if you did the Social write to your employer advising them that they paid you and that your employer has the right to request repayment of the total amount paid to you by the Social.

Nordie

If you are unsure what to do and what your rights are just phone the Dept of Enterprise, Trade & Employment or check out their website www.entemp.ie

leeroybrown

This all comes down to your employers sick pay policy. There is no legal requirement for your employer to pay you for time that you were on sick leave but if they have a specific policy mentioned in or referenced by your terms of employment they will be obliged to keep to that.

Nordie wrote:

You do not have to pay back sick pay unless you claimed and received social welfare benefit too, if you did the Social write to your employer advising them that they paid you and that your employer has the right to request repayment of the total amount paid to you by the Social.

This is incorrect (see above). If the employer offers sick pay then they are entitled to ask the employee to claim 'Illness Benefit' and sign that over to them. If they do not offer sick pay then they may request all the pay back as the employees terms of employment do not include sick pay. In this case the employee may claim and keep their 'Illness Benefit'. The 'Illness Benefit' will typically only cover a portion of the lost pay.

ambman wrote:

in that case you should not be paid and if you were they have every right to dock your next wage packet. otherwise we could all go on the sick. if you spent it tell them you didnt know and ask can you pay it back a tenner a week or so

Strange that. Any employer I've ever worked for with a sick pay scheme had no issue with me getting sick pay while I was recovering from a non-work related illness. If I was out of work due to an illness/injury directly caused by my place of work I would contend that my minimum expectation was to be paid while I recovered regardless of a sick pay scheme.

jjbrien

My contact of employment states that I get full pay when I am sick minus any welfare entitlement. My empolyer already docked the welfare.

Katchit

If your employer offers 100% payment whilst you're out on certified sick leave, it makes sense that you refund any social welfare payment - otherwise you're getting paid twice

jjbrien

Katchit wrote:

If your employer offers 100% payment whilst you're out on certified sick leave, it makes sense that you refund any social welfare payment - otherwise you're getting paid twice

The welfare is not the issue here. Its that I was sick for 24 days which he thinks was too much and wants the money back for the sick pays not the welfare. My doctor said if I had a cert I spoke to her again yesterday that my employer has not right to seek a refund or not to pay me.

The_Conductor

jjbrien wrote:

My contact of employment states that I get full pay when I am sick minus any welfare entitlement. My empolyer already docked the welfare.

Ok- did you do anything that would give your employer reason to believe that you were not entitled to be on sick leave? Lots of GPs hand out sick notes like sweeties- many companies no longer put any faith in them. Normally in cases like this there may be a company recommended doctor who you could agree to attend to be examined (at the companies cost) in order to assure HR/Personnel that your ailments are genuine and that you are entitled to be on sickleave as claimed.

Check your contract carefully- and see what the grounds are that the company is seeking restitution of payments while on sickleave- and check how you can clarify matters satisfactorily for them.

Before I joined my current job any uncertified sick leave was not paid fullstop, and the company I was then working for reserved the right to have those on fully paid sickleave examined by one of a panel of GPs (this was clearly spelt out in my contract). Where I am at the moment requires a fully certified leave if absent on claimed sick leave on a Monday or Friday- and organises appointments with an officially recognised doctor for those on longterm sick leave.

ArthurDent

smccarrick wrote:

Ok- did you do anything that would give your employer reason to believe that you were not entitled to be on sick leave? Lots of GPs hand out sick notes like sweeties- many companies no longer put any faith in them. Normally in cases like this there may be a company recommended doctor who you could agree to attend to be examined (at the companies cost) in order to assure HR/Personnel that your ailments are genuine and that you are entitled to be on sickleave as claimed.

Check your contract carefully- and see what the grounds are that the company is seeking restitution of payments while on sickleave- and check how you can clarify matters satisfactorily for them.

Before I joined my current job any uncertified sick leave was not paid fullstop, and the company I was then working for reserved the right to have those on fully paid sickleave examined by one of a panel of GPs (this was clearly spelt out in my contract). Where I am at the moment requires a fully certified leave if absent on claimed sick leave on a Monday or Friday- and organises appointments with an officially recognised doctor for those on longterm sick leave.

Agree with smcarrick - read your contract, if they agree to pay you sick leave, if certified, then they can't ask for it back. If they have a get out clause - re seeing company doctor - make sure they make the request in writing to you. They must act in accordance with their policies and your contract.

jjbrien

ArthurDent wrote:

Agree with smcarrick - read your contract, if they agree to pay you sick leave, if certified, then they can't ask for it back. If they have a get out clause - re seeing company doctor - make sure they make the request in writing to you. They must act in accordance with their policies and your contract.

There not getting me to see a company doctor anyway he would not be as qualifed as the surgon who had to opperate on me so his word against a comapny doctor would not stand up. I got certifed by a conultant at hospital not to go to work so its not like he handed my a sick cert for no reason.

My new calander year at work came into effect on March 13 and it covers 20 sick days since then I was only sick 13 days so I feel I am covered. I checked it carefully.

Stark

In that case, get yourself a solicitor and get them to talk to your employer.

seamus

As has been said, provided that you complied fully with the terms in your contract of employment with regards to sick pay, then they can't ask for money back.

Not all companies align their business year and leave years. Some companies may reset leave entitlements every January, but turn to the next financial year in April or March.

Get all the documentation you can on the company's sick leave policy. If you have 100%, without a doubt complied with it, then tell them to shove it. If there's any ambiguity, don't assume that you're in the right. Talk to someone in your HR department about it.

Nordie

JJBrien, contact Dept of Enterprise Trade & Employment, regarding your rights which you have here. Their details are on www.entemp.ie you can email or phone them. They will advise you on your rights and also deal with it on your behalf, thats what they're there for and there are no costs.

jjbrien

Nordie wrote:

JJBrien, contact Dept of Enterprise Trade & Employment, regarding your rights which you have here. Their details are on www.entemp.ie you can email or phone them. They will advise you on your rights and also deal with it on your behalf, thats what they're there for and there are no costs.

Thanks for the info will do that.

Nordie

No probs, hope it works out for you:)