How to decide who to vote for

roar_ie

Sorry for the long post but I really want to make an informed decision on who to vote for. I feel that those who died so I can vote deserve that I take it seriously and I need some help and advice as a result.

First off a little about my political leanings:
I am what one would called a young (24 now) disenfranchised voter. I have no party loyality and I have yet to vote in a General Election (last one I wasn't registered correctly or in time) and with the next one only weeks away I haven't a clue who to vote for.

My current view of the Irish politcial structure is that it is currently 3 tiered:
Tier One: Fianna Fail & Fianna Gael
Tier Two: Labour & Progressive Democrates
Tier Three: Sinn Fein, Greens, Independants & Others.

Ideally Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael would like to make up the entire government themselves but realistically that is unlikely. After that the next ideal for them is a coalalition between their party and a tier two party. This is our current government. If the new government doesn't have enough seats after this a tier 3 party will be invited to form the government. As far as I have been made aware this is the likely arrangement for the next government.

With this in mind I have to decide whom to vote for.

Tier One: The Devil I know or the Devil I don't. This is the impression I get of my choices here. Do I vote in the party that has squandered for the most part the wealth of the last 10 years. Though it has helped to generate that wealth. Plus the party does come across as being quiet corrupt with scandals of the last few years. Or do I vote in Edna Kenny and Fianna Gael who seem to be more interested in dirty campaigning rather the discussing the issues and their agenda. The recent accusations of the PD leader & leaks on the day of their manifesto launch being a prime example. Policies for these parties are quiet centralist and similiar. Naturally there are differences but I need to do more research.

Tier Two: I really don't like Michael McDowell and would be glad the PDs don't get back into power. This is a personal dislike rather then policies in general. Labour I feel have spent too much time in opposition moaning about what the government has done rather then proposing better solutions. However I do think Pat Rabitte is probably one of the smartest leaders out there at the moment.

Tier Three: Sinn Fein will never get my vote because of their previous support of terrorism. It is that simple. Greens would be ecomically disasterous to the country but I agree with their drives on public transport improvement. I will probably give the Independant in my area a vote but it in general they more then likely won't get into government.

Ultimately I don't think I know enough about the policies of the parties in general, however I sincerely doubt their abilities to full fill on their promises anyway. Will we used end up with more of the same regardless of who gets into power or can real change be achieved by the parties?

So how do I decide who to vote for? Is spoiling my vote just a cop out on my part if that is what I decide?

Thanks
roar_ie

PH01

In my book there's two ways to vote - the fun and the serious.

The serious way is how most of us vote.
You picture yourself and society at some point in the future. Then figure out which party or individual policies match your dreams and aspirations. The one that comes closest go for them.

The other way is the fun way.
This is a game my brother and I use to play (we're now a bit more serious so we don't play it anymore). On your polling card, vote No. 1 for the candidate you reckon is going to be eleminated first from the count. Your No. 2 goes to the second most likely to be eleminated, and so on.
Then on count day you can watch where you preferences go. Try it, it's fun!
The winner is who's vote goes the furthest.

Money Shot

You can vote for the current regime and Blagger Bertie, and by doing so give them a huge pat on the back for doing such a good job over the last decade and also fuel their arrogance.

You can vote for change i.e there is only one real alternative - Fine Gael. I don't like the whole concept of one alternative - therefore if you don't vote FF you have to vote for us, but I suppose it is the way it is sadly.

You can issue a protest vote against all major parties and not vote for any of them, and instead vote green, indpendant, socialist etc thus sending out a message that they have to try a lot harder to win our affections than cheesy smiles and stupid one liners.

You can also declare yourself insane and vote for the Christian solidarity party or the PD's - god love us if any of them get in.

On the off chance that there is a politician who actually does something constructive at a local level -surely they might deserve your number one.

Chardee MacDennis

roar_ie wrote:

Tier One: The Devil I know or the Devil I don't. This is the impression I get of my choices here. Do I vote in the party that has squandered for the most part the wealth of the last 10 years. Though it has helped to generate that wealth. Plus the party does come across as being quiet corrupt with scandals of the last few years. Or do I vote in Edna Kenny and Fianna Gael who seem to be more interested in dirty campaigning rather the discussing the issues and their agenda. The recent accusations of the PD leader & leaks on the day of their manifesto launch being a prime example. Policies for these parties are quiet centralist and similiar. Naturally there are differences but I need to do more research.

Tier Two: I really don't like Michael McDowell and would be glad the PDs don't get back into power. This is a personal dislike rather then policies in general. Labour I feel have spent too much time in opposition moaning about what the government has done rather then proposing better solutions. However I do think Pat Rabitte is probably one of the smartest leaders out there at the moment.

Tier Three: Sinn Fein will never get my vote because of their previous support of terrorism. It is that simple. Greens would be ecomically disasterous to the country but I agree with their drives on public transport improvement. I will probably give the Independant in my area a vote but it in general they more then likely won't get into government.

Exactly how i feel, except for Sinn Fein, although i doubt i will vote for them. There is no independent in my area but Costello from SWP is at least a man of his word, although SWP isnt capitalist enough for me!!

I am thinking Greens, then SWP and thats it coz there's no one better to vote for party wise but even candidate wise is crazy.

Sully

roar_ie wrote:

My current view of the Irish politcial structure is that it is currently 3 tiered:
Tier One: Fianna Fail & Fianna Gael
Tier Two: Labour & Progressive Democrates
Tier Three: Sinn Fein, Greens, Independants & Others.

Id agree with that view myself.

Ideally Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael would like to make up the entire government themselves but realistically that is unlikely. After that the next ideal for them is a coalalition between their party and a tier two party. This is our current government. If the new government doesn't have enough seats after this a tier 3 party will be invited to form the government. As far as I have been made aware this is the likely arrangement for the next government.

I think it will either be FG & Labour, or FF and two others.

Tier One: The Devil I know or the Devil I don't. This is the impression I get of my choices here. Do I vote in the party that has squandered for the most part the wealth of the last 10 years. Though it has helped to generate that wealth. Plus the party does come across as being quiet corrupt with scandals of the last few years.

Yes our economy has improved a lot with the help of FF, but if you look back at the last general election and compare all their empty promises:- by voting for them you are (as said earlier) patting them on the back and saying "Thank You" for all their work, and are showing that you are happy with how they have governed Ireland over the last few years.

Or do I vote in Edna Kenny and Fianna Gael who seem to be more interested in dirty campaigning rather the discussing the issues and their agenda. The recent accusations of the PD leader & leaks on the day of their manifesto launch being a prime example. Policies for these parties are quiet centralist and similiar. Naturally there are differences but I need to do more research.

Bear in mind now that this has not been proven. Nobody knows who is leaking the information. Some people even in FF thinks it from a senior member of their party. Some believe McDowell is invovled somehow. Others believe its FG. All FG have ever said is that it wasnt them and that its probably McDowell - a fair assumption by the way he went about the whole thing.

But, dont judge any party right know on leaking - we do not know who leaked what. The blame game is pointed, sure, but thats common in general life anyway.

Tier Two: I really don't like Michael McDowell and would be glad the PDs don't get back into power. This is a personal dislike rather then policies in general.

Never knew much of them (apart from McDowell, who became a lapdog when joining Berties team) myself until they joined forces. Didnt hear much from them throught the time in term.

Labour I feel have spent too much time in opposition moaning about what the government has done rather then proposing better solutions. However I do think Pat Rabitte is probably one of the smartest leaders out there at the moment.

Yes id have to agree with you. Hes a good leader Pat is, and id agree he would be listened and respected more then Enda. But, I still think Enda would make a good leader - despite his personality traits.

Tier Three: Sinn Fein will never get my vote because of their previous support of terrorism. It is that simple.

I do believe their is suspicion FF will go in collation with them, despite many people not wanting that. Im not aware of any other party considering this, but id love someone to inform me otherwise.

Greens would be ecomically disasterous to the country but I agree with their drives on public transport improvement. I will probably give the Independant in my area a vote but it in general they more then likely won't get into government.

Greens have some interesting policys but shouldnt play a major role in government. Independents also.

Ultimately I don't think I know enough about the policies of the parties in general, however I sincerely doubt their abilities to full fill on their promises anyway. Will we used end up with more of the same regardless of who gets into power or can real change be achieved by the parties?

Well the reason im not voting for FF is because they have failed (not everything) a considerable amount while in government, and I think its time we introduced a fresh new government with a different approach which id hope might at least partly fix many of our problems. It will take some time, but I think we could see a start to improvements with a new government. Obviously the Health is a major issue, and will be a big job for any government. If FF get back in, they need to change their approach - its clearly not working.

cavedave

one way is to figure out what views you have. Whether they are left/right which generally means the amount of power business vs the civil service should have. Whether you are authoritarian/libertarian which generally means do you think the government should control your actions or not.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire
Once you know this you can see which party agrees closest to you
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland

Personality/trustworthiness and local issues will come into play but this will give you some idea of what your options are.

roar_ie

I agree with the point that voting Fianna Fail in the next general election is essentially patting them on the back and saying well done for the last 10 years, which I don't agree with. However I don't really like or trust Fine Gael either. There isn't really a viable alternative at the moment. Ultimately I think I need to look at the party I would like to make up the government with one of these parties, e.g. PDs or Labour. I would hope that these parties may be able to provide a balancing force in the next government. However I really don't believe the PDs can do this as seen over the last 10 years. I am probably going to vote Labour and then Greens/Independent and leave both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail out and hope for the best

P.s. my political compass is:
Economic Left/Right: -5.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.67

Khannie

cavedave wrote:

Once you know this you can see which party agrees closest to you
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland

Cool site. I got:

Economic Left/Right: -1.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

which puts me closest to the greens (who are probably a natural fit for me)....BUT....

cavedave wrote:

Personality/trustworthiness and local issues will come into play

This is the clincher.....Trevor Sargeant is my local TD and he has been VERY poor on local issues (as such, I will NOT be voting Green). Unfortunately the local issues have caused me and others in the locality to get in touch with him several times. The last time I spoke to him in person and he gave me a laughable round of politicians bullsh*t rhetoric so....I'm not really sure who to vote for.

edit:

The more I think about it, the more I'll probably go with labour for first preference.

roar_ie wrote:

P.s. my political compass is:
Economic Left/Right: -5.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.67

This puts you firmly in the socialist camp. Is there a reason you wouldn't consider voting socialist?

The Rooster

Sully wrote:

.

I do believe their is suspicion FF will go in collation with them (Sinn Fein), despite many people not wanting that. Im not aware of any other party considering this, but id love someone to inform me otherwise.

The Greens are the only party who have not ruled out going into a government coalition with Sinn Fein. No surprise given their similar loony left economic policies.

Noel Dempsey said yesterday that Fianna Fail would go into opposition rather than go into a coalition with Sinn Fein.

Anyone who votes Green puts the economy down low in their priorities. Personally I think the Greens have completed their objective of putting environmental issues on everyone's agenda. They should be congratulated for that but there's no need for them at a government table.

Anyone who votes PDs puts the economy at the top of their priority list.

One of the main stumbling blocks to reform in health, education and transport is the power of the unions. Its almost impossible to get anything done. Will Labour's relationship with the unions mean they get more co-operation if they get in? Or will they simply hand over even more power to the unions?

tHE vAGGABOND

TBH the PD's have circa 2% support in every opinion poll over a number of years, where Green and Shinners have circa 8% support..

The PD's have 8 TD's atm after a good election last time around and everyone on the island knows they will loose several of them at this election!

Shinners have 5 TD's and the Green's have 6 - both are expected to make gains - and I expect both to be bigger than the PD's after the election..

I would put them both on the the same level as the PD's tbh..

The Greens are the only party who have not ruled out going into a government coalition with Sinn Fein. No surprise given their similar loony left economic policies

What the greens have said is that they will not rule *anyone* in or out. They are plain not talking about the issue until after the election, we dont need this and berties finances to become a bigger issue than the real issues. Which is totally fair enough IMHO tbh

cavedave

The funny thing I found about http://www.politicalcompass.org/questionnaire and http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland is how no one seems to share the views of Fianna Fail or Fianna Gael.
I have yet to find anyone I know who is closest to the authouritarian right viewpoint. I am not saying this is a wrong view but I would like people you support these parties to at least believe in this viewpoint.

Khannie

cavedave wrote:

I have yet to find anyone I know who is closest to the authouritarian right viewpoint.

I found this also, with a reasonable sample size (around 10). I then tried to fill it in like a nazi, and found that I scored like a nazi (I did this to test if the test was biased. It clearly is not.). Interesting that.

Mizu_Ger

roar_ie wrote:

Tier One: The Devil I know or the Devil I don't.

This is exactly how I am thinking. FF have made some right arse ups, but have also done a lot right. FG have the right policies, but if they were to come into power I can't see them getting through the next 5yrs without making a complete mess out of a few things also. Its hard to tell.

Also, Kenny has been silent about a resolution to the nurses dispute, which tells me that neither he nor Berite know how to end it.