Ticket for Tailgating

Aceform

Hi,

Was issued a ticket for tailgating while overtaking. I was told that I get a ticket and I had to pay €60. I thought that was very very harsh move. Was in no way dangerous.

He said that I don't get any penalty points for this, just the fine.

How is it possible to just get fine without being getting any penalty points? If I object this, what are my chances of winning this in court.

Any feedback is very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Ace

Raiser

Aceform wrote:

.........Was in no way dangerous.....

Tailgating is never in any shape or form dangerous - to a Tailgater..........

..........Thats cause they have the reaction time of Superman and magic brakes/tyres.

Can't comment on your case but am relieved that the Gardai are finally policing one of the most common and ridiculously dangerous practices seen every day on our roads.

P.S. Unless you're driving a 20CC moped or something it is not necessary to endanger other drivers by proximity before overtaking them - not to say you were or anything.

Marcus.Aurelius

A bad practice. If you were caught you must have been fairly obvious. Dangerous driving my friend, no matter how you look at it.

TwoShedsJackson

Great, delighted that people might finally start being fined or whatever for tailgating, which is totally stupid and un-nessecary.

Aceform

2 things,

I was not that close to be dangerous (to both of us) :-(

Why there are no penalty points and only fine.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Aceform wrote:

2 things,

I was not that close to be dangerous (to both of us) :-(

Why there are no penalty points and only fine.

Insist on those penalty points then!.

Marcus.Aurelius

Should be a penalty points offence. At least you didn't get done for dangerous driving!

Aceform

Ok, Thanks for the replies. I've learnt the lesson.

Aceform

maoleary wrote:

Should be a penalty points offence. At least you didn't get done for dangerous driving!

Where is it listed please?

Anan1

Out of interest, how did they catch you?

Aceform

Anan1 wrote:

Out of interest, how did they catch you?

They were following me from 3 miles out on an empty road in an unmarked car. I suppose they did not find any mistakes, so decided to pin me down to this stupid thing :-(

stewie01

just out of interest ace how do You overtake? Are you 1 of those people that sits on some1s bumper at 60 mph for 10 miles, then pulls out and struggles to accelerate passed or do you know the correct way how to overtake

edit - be nice!
Oh and stop the txt spk!

Marcus.Aurelius

Aceform wrote:

Where is it listed please?

When I said "should be" I meant I would prefer if it was. Not to indicate that it is or that the Garda made a mistake. A full list of penalty points is on http://www.penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php

I reiterate, tailgating doesn't carry penalty points as yet. I would like if it did.

Aceform

stewie01 wrote:

just out of interest ace how do You overtake? Are you 1 of those people that sits on some1s bumper at 60 mph for 10 miles, then pulls out and struggles to accelerate passed or do you know the correct way how to overtake

I've been driving for about 10 years now. I know the correct way thanks. And by the way I'm not one of those people.

edit - language removed

stewie01

thanks just wondering. so how do you personally overtake??

Raiser

Aceform wrote:

2 things,

I was not that close to be dangerous (to both of us) :-(

Why there are no penalty points and only fine.

To be honest most people on this forum would advocate a 10 minute beating with a tyre-iron aswell [for an actual tailgater]- so it sounds like you're doing ok there

- Not to suggest that you were tailgating.

yop

Ace in all fairness you must have been tailgating to get pulled in, obviously to you u weren;t but they must have seen something in it.
From today there is the ombudsman so maybe if u feel hard done by then argue ur case.

I hope they do clamp down on this, had the same issue on Sunday on narrow and wet roads from Ballyvaughan to Kinvarra, some guy, not young, prob in 30's or 40's in a Roscommon reg mini decides to spend the whole time within 4 or 5 ft of my bumper, when I passed a car this ass decided whether it be a hill or a corner he wud come straight after me, got flashed a few times but pee brain still contined to tail.

Time idiots like this were fined well.

seamus

You don't have to get penalty points to get a fine, and vice-versa. Sure when there were no points, all there was were fines.

Only a certain set of offences have points attached to them.

I've never really suffered from this, but my girlfriend's Mum came home pretty shaken up on Sunday. She was driving down the N81, and a trucker (presumably on his way to Roadstone depot), decided to drive a couple of feet behind her and sit on his horn until she pulled over and got out his way. There was nowhere to go, so in her panic she pulled onto the grass verge. She was doing 70km/h in a 100 zone, but that's still no excuse for his behaviour.
She wasn't able to get his reg because there were three of them in convoy, and her view was blocked by the two following trucks.

franksm

Ach... don't judge the lad until he at least describes how he overtook

Aceform wrote:

They were following me from 3 miles out on an empty road in an unmarked car. I suppose they did not find any mistakes, so decided to pin me down to this stupid thing :-(

Why would the Gardai be so vindictive though ? You can contest it if you feel strongly about it

lassykk

i really hope tailgating is clamped down upon. Anyone who's driven a 125 motorbike can probably relate to how terrifying it is to have a truck or even a car sitting on your back wheel when your goin the speed limit and there is no where to pull in.

I've seen someone pulled for it before though but I've no idea what the fine or points were. I was driving along the Waterford - Tramore road before the new ingenius 80kmph limit and a chap in front of me in a punto came up behind a scooter. There were cars coming the other way and it was a narrow stretch of the road (between superquinn and where the new roundabout is now). The scooter couldn't pull in far enough to let the car pass safely so this chap in the punto sat on the scooters back wheel. This continued for a couple of minutes until the road got wider and the scooter kept in as close to the verge as possible and the punto forced his way by.

It turned out there was an unmarked focus behind me wathcin what I was watchin and pulled the punto. It's great when dangerous drivers actually get their come uppance.

Glanza V

Sorry you got caught but its a pity more people were not caught. Each week (i drive 1k per week) all i come across is people up the arse of another car. why dont people just pull it back a bit and wait to overtake when its safe to do so.

Wossack

lassykk wrote:

This post has been deleted.

As a 125 rider myself I totally agree. And it doesnt seem to matter how fast you go, some people just dont want to be behind you. Ive had a couple of bad experiences, all volvos for some reason - guess they figure they paid more for their mode of transport so feel they have more rights to the road then I do, and shant be outdone by a mere motorcyclist. Dont do much out-of-city driving, so I just laugh to myself when I filter by them in city traffic. Its quite satisfying passing an aggressive driver thats stuck in rush-hour gridlock.

PoleStar

I have always wondered why people tailgate me, with a 1 millisecond stopping distance behind me.

I guess this poster illustrates why people do tailgate, and that is, they dont even realise they are doing it. As the poster says, he didnt think he was doing anything dangerous. I guess it is this lack of regard or experience that results in tailgating. And he says he has been driving for 10 years. I guess he has yet to drive into the back of another driver. Perhaps when he does that (and hopefully without injuring himself or another individual) he will realise that 5mm is not sufficient stopping distance.

Seth Brundle

I had a car tailgate me on the N4 last Sunday.
I just slowed right down in places where they could not overtake me.

drdre

Mairt wrote:

Insist on those penalty points then!.

BeardyGit

kbannon wrote:

I had a car tailgate me on the N4 last Sunday.
I just slowed right down in places where they could not overtake me.

I'm a big fan of lighting up the back of the car when some tit comes cruising up my hole, when I'm sitting on the speed limit.

That's not to say I throw out the anchors, I just hit the back fogs and usually just enough on the brakes to show the brake lights. And if they don't back off, I'll just drop down to say 80kph in a 100/130, while I call the local Garda station on the carphone....

I've been to court already with a couple of twats who were done for dangerous driving on the N11. And I'll keep doing it too. Bravo to the Gardaí for taking this whole tailgating thing seriously....

Raiser

I usually indicate ASAP & pull in when I can to hard shoulder etc. - beep the horn with vigour, enthusiasm and perseverance as soon as they have started to overtake me as can be expected of any driver whos just been forced off the road despite paying €600 road tax a year to drive on same.

- I am absolutely convinced that tailgaters are usually unaware of the serious danger the are posing for you and your family - they usually look shocked if you let them know you disapprove. I believe that aggressive tailgating, ie. to force you to speed up or indicate left is not that common in Ireland - its usually inexperience, ignorance and stupidity.

P.S. How can Traffic Watch be used to report Tailgaters ? Do the Gardai just officailly warn them - do you need to go fully on record with your own details? Is it any good/effective? Would love to find out - let us know if you call. - Nearly did once when a 'gater tried to undertake me after I tapped the brake [mildly] once or twice :eek: :eek: :eek:

Marcus.Aurelius

Raiser wrote:

I usually indicate ASAP & pull in when I can to hard shoulder etc. - beep the horn with vigour, enthusiasm and perseverance as soon as they have started to overtake me as can be expected of any driver whos just been forced off the road despite paying €600 road tax a year to drive on same.

- I am absolutely convinced that tailgaters are usually unaware of the serious danger the are posing for you and your family - they usually look shocked if you let them know you disapprove. I believe that aggressive tailgating, ie. to force you to speed up or indicate left is not that common in Ireland - its usually inexperience, ignorance and stupidity.

P.S. How can Traffic Watch be used to report Tailgaters ? Do the Gardai just officailly warn them - do you need to go fully on record with your own details? Is it any good/effective? Would love to find out - let us know if you call. - Nearly did once when a 'gater tried to undertake me after I tapped the brake [mildly] once or twice :eek: :eek: :eek:

While I agree with your stance on these tailgaters, paying road tax is not a license to drive anyway you like. We still have a duty of care and courtesy to each other. Tailgaters, I will agree, are horrifically dangerous.

BeardyGit

Call directory enquiries, and ask for the Garda station close by. When your call is answered, give your name/registration/phone number, ask the guard to take thme, and a description of what your car is - White toyota corolla for example. Then ask the guard for their name too. Tell them you're currently driving on XX road, in such and such a direction. Tell them you're being harassed by another road user who is driving incredibly close behind you, and that you are seriously worried about your safety and that of other road users. Tell them you're afraid they're going to cause a serious accident etc...

The gardai will respond, if you're clear and express your real concerns to them. They're not going to take a chance that this guy will run you off the road or cause a crash, while they sit there in the station making tea, especially when you've given all your details and asked for the garda's name. They'll usually task a vehicle to come and intercept the dangerous driver, and you'll usually get a call from that vehicle, to confirm your present location and so forth.

Now it must be stressed, there's no point in calling just because some tit cuts you up a bit in traffic, or beeps at you/flashes you to move over on the motorway etc. But if you genuinely believe there's trouble brewing with someone driving dangerously close to you on a B or national road, call the Gardai and let them make the decision on how to handle it.

I've actually had a Garda helicopter locate my car for a reference point to locate someone driving dangerously behind me. In this case the guy was gradually working his way towards my location through wreckless overtaking of traffic while heading south towards Blessington on the N81. He overtook leading into blind bends, crossing solid lines etc....And I could see him coming. What else could I do but call the Gardaí, and they took it very seriously. There's a prosecution pending, and I'll go to court if asked, but video footage from the helicopter kind of takes care of it anyway :-)

Credit where it's due, the Gardaí did a great job in both cases....

Raiser

maoleary wrote:

While I agree with your stance on these tailgaters, paying road tax is not a license to drive anyway you like. We still have a duty of care and courtesy to each other. Tailgaters, I will agree, are horrifically dangerous.

I indicate, pull in [when safe to do so] and beep the horn - the beeping is to alert or warn drivers/pedestrians in the area of danger, thats why the car manufacturers fit these devices isn't it ?

rockbeer

seamus wrote:

She was doing 70km/h in a 100 zone, but that's still no excuse for his behaviour.

Agreed that it's no excuse... but why was she only doing 70 in a 100 zone? Were visibility or road conditions dangerous? Was she driving a tractor? If not, then she should be driving at or close to the limit, or making every effort to allow faster vehicles behind her to pass.

I was always taught that to drive significantly under the speed limit is as bad as exceeding it. You would fail your test in the UK for driving like that, unless there were good reasons for going so slowly. Being scared of or unable to handle speed isn't a good reason...

While there's no excuse for the sort of aggression you describe, wilfully slow drivers must understand that they contribute to their own problems and make the roads more dangerous for the rest of us.

seamus

rockbeer wrote:

Agreed that it's no excuse... but why was she only doing 70 in a 100 zone? Were visibility or road conditions dangerous? Was she driving a tractor? If not, then she should be driving at or close to the limit, or making every effort to allow faster vehicles behind her to pass.

She thought it was a 60 zone as she didn't feel that the conditions would allow otherwise - she increased her speed to 70 when the guy came up behind her. I know the road very well, and would personally drive at 100km/h for all of the section she was in, but for someone who'd never driven it before it can be daunting. That particular section becomes narrower and has no hard shoulder and a solid white line, but the limit remains at 100km/h. If someone wasn't used to driving on country roads, then 100 or even 80km/h may seem excessive on that stretch.

While I would agree that people should make an effort to drive with the rest of the traffic flow, I would prefer that someone drove at the speed they were comfortable with instead of 10km/h above it, even if it was slowing me down. I regularly encounter (Dublin) people doing 70-80km/h at the section she describes. Technically though she the mother-in-law, so I wasn't going to launch into a critique of her actions!

is_that_so

Tailgating would be an executable offence in an ideal world.
Top of my all time driving hates.
I think what tailgaters fail to register or don't care about, is the effect on the person being tailgated. My sister in law got quite distressed driving along the N4 at the weekend, when someone tailgated her at the speed limit for the best part of two miles, despite there being a dual carriageway. I had to remind her to slow down to encourage them to pass,which they eventually did. When distressed people can panic and any thing can happen then.

BrianD3

Have I missed something here or has a vital part of the original post been overlooked in the responses
"tailgating while overtaking"

If you mean tailgating another vehicles while both of you are overtaking on a single carriageway road that is one of the most dangerous things you can do while driving. This is far worse than "normal" tailgating.

If you mean closing up to the target vehicle before overtaking then that is a different matter. IIRC the IAM recommends that drivers should close up to 1 second behind the target immediately before overtaking

MrPudding

BrianD3 wrote:

If you mean closing up to the target vehicle before overtaking then that is a different matter. IIRC the IAM recommends that drivers should close up to 1 second behind the target immediately before overtaking

But not to actually start accelerating for overtaking until you are in the offside and are sure the overtake is on. As soon as it is on acceleration should be as hard as your machine can give, up to the speed limit of course.

MrP

Marcus.Aurelius

Wait a sec, I made a mistake. You didnt get penalty points?

Failure to leave appropriate distance between you and the vehicle in front 2 pts on ticket €80
€120 in next 28 day period and 4 pts on conviction

bbbbb

Big fan of the "two second rule" myself.

Was explaining it to my passenger on the way back from cork yesterday. Half an hour later we get near abbeyleix when all of a sudden the traffic somes to a sudden halt. Looked behind me, the merc that had been following me at a safe distance stopped ok, but a nissan primera behind him had to use the hard shoulder as an escape.

Agree with other posters, most tailgaters don't seem to realise the dangers.

DJ_Spider

We have one of those parking sensors fitted. When something is 1mtr from the sensor it bleeps slowly, 1/5mtr it bleeps faster. It's amazing how many times it bleep when we are on the roads, waiting at traffic lights, or waiting to get onto/off the motorway.

PoleStar

rockbeer wrote:

Agreed that it's no excuse... but why was she only doing 70 in a 100 zone? Were visibility or road conditions dangerous? Was she driving a tractor? If not, then she should be driving at or close to the limit, or making every effort to allow faster vehicles behind her to pass.

I was always taught that to drive significantly under the speed limit is as bad as exceeding it. You would fail your test in the UK for driving like that, unless there were good reasons for going so slowly. Being scared of or unable to handle speed isn't a good reason...

These types of statements always make me laugh.

Speed signs are LIMITS, not targets. On many roads while the limit may be 100kph, this may not be the advisable safe speed, which is the speed which will enable you to stop safely within the distance visible in front of you. This is the law. Many people seem to ignore this fact.

Some might reply, well why not have the speed limit reflect this? Well I guess that would mean having about 1 billion speed limit signs around the country for every variation in speed that should be taken encountering a narrow bend etc.

I guess some people never learn.

BostonB

Just get outta the way will ye

Dilbert75

Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule.

Stark

PoleStar wrote:

Well I guess that would mean having about 1 billion speed limit signs around the country for every variation in speed that should be taken encountering a narrow bend etc.

Many countries seem to manage.

New Zealand have "advisory speed limits" before every bend. No more impractical than the ">>", ">>>>", "slow", "very slow", "dead slow" and the like signs that we have over here. I also noticed in Spain that they seem to have them before most bends on country roads.

rockbeer

PoleStar wrote:

These types of statements always make me laugh.

Speed signs are LIMITS, not targets. On many roads while the limit may be 100kph, this may not be the advisable safe speed, which is the speed which will enable you to stop safely within the distance visible in front of you. This is the law. Many people seem to ignore this fact.

Some might reply, well why not have the speed limit reflect this? Well I guess that would mean having about 1 billion speed limit signs around the country for every variation in speed that should be taken encountering a narrow bend etc.

I guess some people never learn.

So what are you saying - that people who trundle along at 70 in a 100 zone when there's no good reason for driving so slowly are driving well?

Did you actually read my post? I said quite clearly *unless road conditions dictate otherwise* - in other words, the speed limit should be regarded as a target unless there are road/weather conditions etc. that dictate otherwise. Experience allows a driver to judge what is a safe speed, and of course it would be ridiculous to say everyone should always be driving at the limit come what may under all conditions. But hey, that wasn't what I said was it?

Not really sure why you take such exception to my comments as I don't really think I'm saying anything different to you.

I don't know how it is here, but in the UK you WILL fail your test for driving too slowly. And you might not like this either, but the standard of driving is way higher over there than it is here.

Glad I gave you a laugh, anyway

Stark

rockbeer wrote:

I don't know how it is here, but in the UK you WILL fail your test for driving too slowly. And you might not like this either, but the standard of driving is way higher over there than it is here.

It's the same situation over here, although people don't really get tested on 100km/hr roads.

J_R

Stark wrote:

It's the same situation over here, although people don't really get tested on 100km/hr roads.

Correct. If the test route does encompass a 100 km/h section you will be marked if you do not drive at the speed limit.

cavanmaniac

Tailgaters I agree are one of my all-time top peeves on the road.

Two years ago I had a guy in an Astra pull right, right, right up to my back bumper when leaving Ashbourne. I mean this guy could not have been any closer without bumping me, unbelieveable. I was observing the speed limit exiting the town but he forced me to speed up, and he duly filled the space again.

I then dabbed the breaks, mildly though as he was so very close, he backed off and then came back again.

I switched on my rear fogs. He turned on his headlights. And stayed in position.

He overtook me before coming to the main roundabout where you turn left for Swords. I came over the hill in his wake to find him buried in the backend of some poor young girl in a Micra and her in floods of tears.

What an absolute idiot.

Guys who come up close behind you with high dips and the fogs blazing get my goat as well. Only once has a turn on of the rear fogs got one of these guys to switch them off, usually they just blaze the headlights even though they know they're in the wrong and that the driver in front wouldn't be doing this unless they were getting dazzled or felt uncomfortable.

Stark

cavanmaniac wrote:

He overtook me before coming to the main roundabout where you turn left for Swords. I came over the hill in his wake to find him buried in the backend of some poor young girl in a Micra and her in floods of tears.

Hope she was okay. (Hope he wasn't).

embraer170

Stark wrote:

New Zealand have "advisory speed limits" before every bend. No more impractical than the ">>", ">>>>", "slow", "very slow", "dead slow" and the like signs that we have over here. I also noticed in Spain that they seem to have them before most bends on country roads.

They have that on some roads in France too. I remember driving the Cote d'Azur Bis route (Grenoble to Sisteron) and they had limits before most bends... I remember 30/40 km/h limits on bends most people people (and I'm not excluding myself) would fly around at 80/90km/h on many Irish roads.

BostonB

J_R wrote:

Correct. If the test route does encompass a 100 km/h section you will be marked if you do not drive at the speed limit.

I always thought that the speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. I also thought that making progress meant. as a general rule, drive at the same speed as traffic around you without going over the speed limit. Do you have links to any official legal info text that says you have to drive at the speed limit.

rockbeer

BostonB wrote:

I always thought that the speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions.

What you say here is true. It would be impossible to put up a speed limit sign that took allowance of transitory factors such as fog and ice, mud on the road, restricted visibility, one-off bends etc. Otherwise limits would have to be set ridiculously low.

Experience allows a driver to judge what is a safe speed. However, the assumption is that an experienced driver should be able to drive safely at or near the limit in good conditions when no such temporary factors are in place to cause them to slow down. Obviously a good driver will make allowance for such factors and adjust their speed accordingly.

A good driver won't drive significantly below the limit in otherwise favourable and safe conditions simply because they don't feel comfortable with speed in general or think that driving significantly below the limit is safer.

BostonB wrote:

I also thought that making progress meant. as a general rule, drive at the same speed as traffic around you without going over the speed limit.

Well obviously you have to adjust your speed according to the speed of the vehicles around you. If you're behind a lorry in your car and it's not safe to pass, you need to slow down, drop back and wait. Some vehicles are limited in speed by their design and you have to take account of that. But that's quite a different thing to deliberately driving well below the limit when conditions don't require it.

BostonB wrote:

Do you have links to any official legal info text that says you have to drive at the speed limit.

You'll quite rightly never find anything official telling you that the limit is anything other than a maximum speed, not a required one. However, from the Rules of the Road:

"you should not drive so slowly that your vehicle unnecessarily blocks other road users. If you drive too slowly, you risk frustrating other drivers, which could lead to dangerous overtaking."

BostonB

rockbeer wrote:

....However, the assumption is that an experienced driver should be able to drive safely at or near the limit in good conditions...

What about inexperienced drivers? They are legal on the road too. I suspect you meant competent driver. But then incompetent learners are legal while they learn.

rockbeer wrote:

...A good driver won't drive significantly below the limit in otherwise favourable and safe conditions simply because they don't feel comfortable with speed in general or think that driving significantly below the limit is safer....

Some drivers are comfortable driving beyond safe limits. Everyone's limits are different. Also you might have any sort of passenger or cargo in the car where it might not be suitable to drive at the speed limit. What then? Many roads the limits are set too high just some are set too low. In one of our cars I could easily maintain a much higher than legal speed most of the time even on small roads. In our other city car its simply not stable at the speed limit on small roads and is geared to cruise at 90-100km/h not 120km/h. Both cars are much more economical at 100km/h not 120km/h.

rockbeer wrote:

You'll quite rightly never find anything official telling you that the limit is anything other than a maximum speed, not a required one. However, from the Rules of the Road:
....

...its not official or a legal requirement, then...

I'm frustrated with generally too low limits. But I don't really have a problem with people who want to drive slower than the limit unless they are driving erratically.