What if enlightenment had a light switch?

6th

Not sure if this would be more suited to the Spirituality Forum but out of fear of causing offense over there maybe its bettter here?

What would you think if you were going about your business and then suddenly you saw flashes of white light in the sky? You hear a voice from beyond and instantly notice strange white figures floating towards you. You awake sometime later with no idea what happened but you have a strange new awareness of the world. What's your first explanation?

Angels?

Aliens?

How about a seizure?

Temporal Lobe Epilepsy is a brain phenomenon that some scientists say may be the explanation for all sorts of religious and paranormal phenomenon . . . from religious epiphanies to alien abductions. Read a good summary of it here.

Basically what happens is that during a seizure, certain parts of the brain get over stimulated. Seizures that happen in the temporal lobe seem to stimulate a part of the brain responsible for mystical visions and profound hallucinations.

The strange thing is, many famous artists and prophets describe symptoms of Temporal Lobe seizures when talking about visions they have had. What if Joan of Arc suffered from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy . . . or Moses?

Of course, having temporal lobe seizures isn't what makes a person religious, but what if you could indiscriminately trigger that area of the brain in anybody? Would it make them feel like a prophet? One scientist has been testing a device that would do just that. The Wired science blog has a good post on the implications of such a tool here.

I'm curious to know what others think about the idea of turning on enlightenment like a light switch. If you could trigger transcendence with a machine would it be a good thing or a bad thing?

GuanYin

I think this is better suited for ISS to be honest.

6th

psi wrote:

I think this is better suited for ISS to be honest.

I can see where you are coming from but a thread like this in ISS would get very different replies to the ones that we'd get here.

I choose here because I know I for one am open to having an explaination of my experiences, regardless of whether they back up my personal beliefs or not.

I saw this as a very fitting an appropriate topic especially after the recent thread about the makeup of the brain and its possible relevance to paranormal experiences. Is it not?

6th

Personally I have been tested for epilepsy in the past and would be interested in others who have had paranormal experiences have had any medical investigations done in the past. Similarily we had a discussion about Aspergers & paranormal phenomenon in the past.

monkeyfudge

I used to get these when I was younger and used to have a good few issues with my brain... but haven't had any in almost a decade.

Normally I'd black out and have no recollection of my actions... but one time I did genuinely feel like I had the entire universe compacted inside my skull for a brief instant... pretty much impossible to describe I'm afraid. Bewildering yet pleasant I guess.

My brain is doing pretty well these days though.

GuanYin

6th wrote:

I can see where you are coming from but a thread like this in ISS would get very different replies to the ones that we'd get here.

I choose here because I know I for one am open to having an explaination of my experiences, regardless of whether they back up my personal beliefs or not.

I saw this as a very fitting an appropriate topic especially after the recent thread about the makeup of the brain and its possible relevance to paranormal experiences. Is it not?

No that's grand. It just struck me as inviting trouble I'll keep an eye though.

6th

Ok so questions:

1) Would *you be open to accepting that you "experiences" where a product of a misfire in your brain?

2) Have *you ever had a condition (or test for a condition) that may cause hallucinations (visual or auditory) etc?


* by you I mean people who have had or may have had experiences.

Aisling&M

1) yes I am very open to the concept/fact that what I sense outside of the 5 realms accepted by science does indeed have a physical effect in my brain.
2) I've never been tested for such conditions. I only remember hallucinating once, when I was about 6, when I saw crocodiles around a window frame.....but there was a thunderstorm and my imagination was heightened.

mossieh

Excellent question 6th.

Aisling&M wrote:

1) yes I am very open to the concept/fact that what I sense outside of the 5 realms accepted by science does indeed have a physical effect in my brain.

I don't think that's quite what 6th meant Aisling, (correct me if I'm wrong) I think he means do you think there's a possibility that what you sensed was caused by a physical condition in your brain. i.e. the other way around.

I find this subject very interesting because it provides skeptics and believers in psychic phenomena a middle ground. Believers may be genuinely sensing or feeling something but it might not have the root cause that they expect. Those who dismiss (myself included) may be wrong in the sense that you are not imagining it, it is real to you, it's just not what you thought it was. Of course ultimately it's not a very romantic explanation, but it could well be a correct one.

Aisling&M

I think it works both ways simultaneously. I do not accept that I am controlled by my biology and physical make-up solely but that it plays an integral and majority role in allowing me do the things a do. I believe that at the time I am inspired to paint my brain is sending/receiving many signals......the same way when I get a psychic sense the same thing is happening, just in a different area. I look at my body as a lock/quay in a canal that is my consciousness.

With the above in mind I am perfectly comfortable to accept that my brain of course is involved in everything I do........but is not the sole original source.

monkeyfudge

Then you can look at other phenomenas like sleep paralysis and how it's linked to people believing in the succubus or alien abduction.

Aisling&M

If you will permit me to give an analogy that might explain a bit better.

A mother and a father are needed, at least genetically with the ovum and sperm to create a child.

When I experience a psychic moment that is the 'child'. My body is the 'father' and my soul is the 'mother'. Both are VERY different but equally required.

monkeyfudge

I was reading an article not too long ago about the possibilities of quantum computers and what they might be like.

A quantum computer will be significantly more capable than our standard computers as because of being just a 1 or a 0 it can be both at the same time.

But... beyond that again are quantum gravity computers... it's all very theoretical but quantum gravity wouldn't act within the same laws of space and time so a quantum gravity computer would be able to give output before it has received the input.

What if the human brain was a quantum gravity computer? And that everything we think of as imagination and creativity is it processing information that we have yet to receive.

mossieh

Aisling&M wrote:

If you will permit me to give an analogy that might explain a bit better.

A mother and a father are needed, at least genetically with the ovum and sperm to create a child.

When I experience a psychic moment that is the 'child'. My body is the 'father' and my soul is the 'mother'. Both are VERY different but equally required.

To borrow that analogy, I think this research suggests that in at least some cases, the 'father' of a 'psychic moment' is the chemical/physical abnormality in the brain and the 'mother' is the mis-interpretation of the manifestation of that abnormality.

6th

Temporal Lobe Epilepsy is a brain phenomenon that some scientists say may be the explanation for all sorts of religious and paranormal phenomenon

Ok so it may be a cause that could explain cases of experiencing some paranormal phenomenon.

Some people who have had experiences will ignore this and not see it as having anything to do with their experiences. (this may very well be true)

If some are caused by a bit of a mis-fire in teh brain and some are "genuine" paranormal phenomenon - how do we tell the difference?

Is the only difference between the 2 how we interperate them? Is faith the deciding factor?

As I said I have had many many experience (even some today), I've also said that I have been tested for the likes of epilepsy etc (using EEGs and the like) and nothing out of the ordinary was found. So, are my paranormal experiences "real"?

Personally I dont really buy into the uber spiritual side of things of what I have experienced and don't believe that science has all the answers ... i dont even think they are (in general) asking the right questions.

Aisling&M

Didn't we touch on a similar subject a while ago, where it was mentioned that if certain areas of the brain are stimulated by electrical impulse, a ghost feeling or a feeling of being watched was reported. I think in that thread I mentioned that it is also possible to stimulate the brain and the person is aware of other sensations such as taste or smell......ie they may for example taste something sweet when there is nothing in their mouth. BUT they can also have the same sensation when they go and buy an ice-cream......
ie effects can be triggered within the brain synthetically, but these do not de-value the actual experiences.

I know too little about the brain to say what happens with temporal lobe epilepsy but I can only suggest that perhaps this event triggers a part of the brain or fires certain signals only a few people use ordinarily that give psychic awareness.

Can psychic awareness not be a naturally occurring thing, just not understood as yet.
I do have a strong faith in a world and existence beyond this but I do truly believe that psychic ability/mediumship/telekenesis etc etc do belong in the realm of explainable (even if not just yet) as well as faith.

I think there is a science beyond the physical. I do believe their will be a spiritual science that helps us understand the laws of consciousness but it wont be for a long time yet. And rightly so. I don't think I could even trust myself with that knowledge, let alone some of the characters that are around nowadays!

Aisling&M

ooh, one more thought on the matter.........

my decision as to the validity of the experience whether caused mysteriously or occuring as the result or in conjunction with temporal lobe epilepsy is the content of the information received.

ie if the subject / psychic experiencer found information was given to her/him that was correct and specific and something meaningful it could be considered a valid event.
If the content of the vision/message is gobbledygook.......then I'd think a little more on the subject.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone familiar with the chemical/biological make-up of the brain or with information on this form of epilepsy to let us know if it is ONLY psychic phenomenon that occur simultaneously with the seizures or if there are other occurences of much more mundane reactions. ie feeling pain in the leg, taste, emotion etc.

kshiel

I would have to say that some experience would have to be put down to an over active imagination, well as we all have an imagination.

I have never been tested for a illness in relation to the brain but I do remember once been put on medication for a pain in my side and these caused me to hallunicate, but it was more along the lines of someone is sawing the bed in half.

For me I would think because we have a pyschical body, and that we are dealing with an intelligent energy that they would use this to communciate eg impressions placed on the mind.

Also if I can take that we are a spirit with a pyschical body and we use our own minds etc to obtain astral travel and bring back information that is correct or better yet someone else sees that person, can we assume (?) that its a reaction of the brain that has been casued by some chemical or other reaction.

Very interesting topic.

Tchocky

Son Goku

monkeyfudge wrote:

I was reading an article......
What if the human brain was a quantum gravity computer? And that everything we think of as imagination and creativity is it processing information that we have yet to receive.

Yeah, QG computers are a cool concept. The human brain is too cold to function as one though, because you need bastard high energies before Quantum Gravity starts working.

As for being a regular quantum computer, the brain is probably too hot and wet to be able to use Quantum Mechanics.