radios, listening in and smoke....

Fallschirmjager

anyone know of a good value radio to use?

as an aside, maybe a standard could be identified, one with a number of channels to encourage that type of participation regardless of teams? just a thought....

also i was searching but if a team is using radios can u act all CIAish and try and listen in on the opposing team or is that considered 'ungentleman like behaviour'?


finally anyone know the rules (in ireland) regarding the use of smoke nades? the scottish airsoft site has a large selection of them. i know a lot wont ship but i imagine it is only a matter of time before they do appear. i just want to make sure its legal.

i am assuming the stun grenade firecrackers things are illegal as they would fall under the firecracker laws...i wonder also does the bb nades also fall into that category??

thanks

kdouglas

made a smoke grenade last week myself, basically it's a metal tube with a couple of fins inside which hold those smoke bombs/pellets you can buy in the joke shop, works ok, but you wanna put about 4/5 of the small ones into it to get any decent amount of smoke.

was talking a bit to paul about it, stun grenades and bb grenades i think he said would be illegal, but he's not sure about smoke grenades, think he was going to look into possibly getting some.

the radios: good idea, not sure what way most radios work, but i'd imagine most radios are compatible with eachother, there is a limited frequency range for public use, so i'd imagine most are capable of using most channels in that range, hopefully someone with better knowledge of radios can clarify this..

and listening in... not sure, kinda provides an unfair advantage i guess, but just like in real life, if the channel isnt encrypted, then anyone can listen in

Fallschirmjager

kdouglas wrote:

made a smoke grenade last week myself, basically it's a metal tube with a couple of fins inside which hold those smoke bombs/pellets you can buy in the joke shop, works ok, but you wanna put about 4/5 of the small ones into it to get any decent amount of smoke.

was talking a bit to paul about it, stun grenades and bb grenades i think he said would be illegal, but he's not sure about smoke grenades, think he was going to look into possibly getting some.

the radios: good idea, not sure what way most radios work, but i'd imagine most radios are compatible with eachother, there is a limited frequency range for public use, so i'd imagine most are capable of using most channels in that range, hopefully someone with better knowledge of radios can clarify this..

and listening in... not sure, kinda provides an unfair advantage i guess, but just like in real life, if the channel isnt encrypted, then anyone can listen in

cool thanks, the smoke would be a nice cheap addition ...ahem, yes i just assumed they, the radios, would ahem, not work together but with hindsight, that is probably a bit of a thicko comment by me... :rolleyes:

Fiach Dubh

If you're looking for radios that don't cost too much you can get two Motorola's Talkabout's with battery and charger in Maplin for 89.99. They work fine with the radios Paul uses, I had mine up there a few weeks ago and I could hear everything he was saying

Rew

In Europe the 99% of the radios you can buy are PMR446 PMR = Personal Mobile Radio and 446 is 446Mhz. All euro countries opened that bit of the spectrum for unlicenced radios for general use. Theres 8 channels but the better ones use digital codes to spit those channels in to 38 sub channels giving 8 x 38 virtual channels. The better ones can scan channels but most cannt so you could get an unfair advantage on the other team. One or 2 models have an inveter that can invert the sound and "encrypt" the conversation but its not exactly secure.

Some indfo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMR446
Loads of other good sites online.

The motorolas are by fair the best quality all round and it does make a diff when your trying to understand someone screaming in to it

IV 2 differnat types of motorola and some Biatones, motorola are the dogs B. Ear pices can be got on ebay, havent tried them. Down side of the standard mororolas is they dont tkae the 2 pins headsets.

If your tempted by the US ones, their on a differant frequency and are illeagle over here without a licence for that frequency.

I wonder does the decent smoke grenades come under fireworks laws? Military smoke is great stuff but fairly toxic (and the canister is red hot during and after the smoke discharge), iv seen it sold surplus in the UK. You would want to be well away form a public road for that and indoors it would just be mental.

Spitfire666

i got cheap radios in aldi for about 5quid and they work with other more expensive radios like pauls aswell as other cheap ones like jonnys and nigels.

ED E

Got a cheap pair of Challenge radios in argos (€21 for the pair) and they work fine. Should be PMR. The problem is they are 1 pin like my throatmikes but the pinn is split into more sections. Can anyone post a pic of pin that is Talkabout Compatable?

EDIT:

Would this work with a Talkabout?

Rew

From the page:

Applicable radios

Compatible models (Yaesu 1-pin): Yaesu / Vertex FT-10R, FT-40R, FT-50R, FT-60R, VX-10, VX-110, VX-130, VX-131, VX-132, VX-150, VX-160, VX-180, VX-210, VX-210A, VX-300, VX-400, VX-410, VX-420, VXF-1, VXF-10, VXF-20, VX-1R, VX-2R and VX-5R.

So no. If you search there are talkabout ones on EBay like:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Acoustic-Earpiece-PTT-Mic-for-Motorola-Talkabout-Series_W0QQitemZ160113072673QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48705QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And this

http://cgi.ebay.ie/VOX-PTT-Throat-Vibration-Microphone-Motorola-Talkabout_W0QQitemZ130106753278QQihZ003QQcategoryZ48705QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

16airassualt

dont ask me how ive got them but,ive a load of proper radio equipment,motorola gp900(same as gardai),gp300(2),talkabout,gm340 and ht800.will be happy to share once my rifle arrives and i go down to htra,should be about 2 weeks

ED E

Got mine of Radio Gear Pro aswell but wrong type. F***!
More money out of my back pocket.

BTW, used those cheap radios I mentioned above yesterday. Great Range through dense forest and very clear.

Fallschirmjager

Lethal_Bullet wrote:

Got mine of Radio Gear Pro aswell but wrong type. F***!
More money out of my back pocket.

BTW, used those cheap radios I mentioned above yesterday. Great Range through dense forest and very clear.

well looks like i am playing catch up here....ye all have them!!!. probably blows the concept of a standard out the arse end!! to be honest i am none to bothered about it being super clear..in fact it may well add the the fun if its a bit crackly...unless its a team taking it serious i suppose...but i guess i will have a looksee at the argos and moto ones...

rex thanks for the detail...to be honest i was looking at the US ones cos they were cheaper but i kept seeing fcc license requiredments, and i was wondering why they were so touchy -- it looks like its a real radio (ala police, fire brigade etc) and way beyond what an airsofter would require.

as for the smoke, toxic and hot...not a good mix...i guess they are outside the bounds, for me at least ...dont want to wind up at 60 with lung cancer...and doing a video with a face mask, wheezing..airsoft is bad..pity tho..it would be a bit of a blast indoors, i guess i will wait for the strawberry flavoured good for you version.

Rew

Dont under estimate the clarity issue. Poor quality ear pieces make the issue allot worse to the point where its unuseable, which is the opposite to what you might expect.

Iv orderd a talkabout throat mike/ear piece from Ebay, ill let you know what i think when it arrives.

Fallschirmjager

Rew wrote:

Dont under estimate the clarity issue. Poor quality ear pieces make the issue allot worse to the point where its unuseable, which is the opposite to what you might expect.

Iv orderd a talkabout throat mike/ear piece from Ebay, ill let you know what i think when it arrives.

i have just be skiving...and checking around...seems to be a lot of cheap talkabouts on ebay and headsets etc.....

Rew

Check the models and see what the features are. Go for the Euro models as opposed to the US ones.

US will work but only with other US models and if you interfere with somone because you using the frequency illeagly you could get a nasty fine. Its unlikely but if your in the one site like HRTA alot they could track you down.

There are more expensive semi-pro units that take more expensive headsets that are the Dogs B but how much cash you gonna splash on a radio when everyone else is only buying the regular ones.

ED E

I wonder will Radiogerpro take them back...in exchange for the other moedel which is compatible.

Rew

Always worth asking question

Fallschirmjager

Rew wrote:

Check the models and see what the features are. Go for the Euro models as opposed to the US ones.

US will work but only with other US models and if you interfere with somone because you using the frequency illeagly you could get a nasty fine. Its unlikely but if your in the one site like HRTA alot they could track you down.

There are more expensive semi-pro units that take more expensive headsets that are the Dogs B but how much cash you gonna splash on a radio when everyone else is only buying the regular ones.

yep euro models only...thanks for the heads up.

the only thing that would draw me to a higher model is that uncompany are selling the devgru and nato headsets for 70 dollars and up...but the connector is a 2 pin type...childish i know but there u have it..

Rew

I reckon you would be talking €200+ per radio for the pro m odel 446's that take 2 pins.

There also a 1->2 pin adpater that can be got:

http://walkie-talkies.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_44&products_id=54

Fallschirmjager

Rew wrote:

I reckon you would be talking €200+ per radio for the pro m odel 446's that take 2 pins.

There also a 1->2 pin adpater that can be got:

http://walkie-talkies.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_44&products_id=54

yikes i guess that puts paid to that idea....LOL..but the adaptor is a cool idea...

Fallschirmjager

anyone ever hear of these its cirtic acid and baking soda..


http://www.airsofthandgrenades.com/


if i read it right some of the parts are reusable...

http://www.airsofthandgrenades.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=45

not too expensive and i cant imagine it would be against the law as their is no real explosive components..also if it goes off in your hand, its also safe (or so they say)...i dont think the bb's travel far, 12 feet or so...they are also working on a land mine using the same concept...

kdouglas

well, i just requested a quote for the pack of 6, it's €24 without shipping, seem to be based in spain, so cant imagine shipping would be much.

16airassault: surely the draincleaner stuff would be irritant to skin? might try that later though

Fallschirmjager

well funny u should mention youtune cos there is a helluva lot on home made smoke...and i am not talking cigar levels here....all home made...unfortunately as with all youtube...the mandatory number of complete muppets...but it is possible...i do recall tho that saltpeter (?Sp) is banned here so this might not be a good idea...

Rew

Caustic Soda is a very nasty chemical, used to clear drains as it disolves things including skin.

A serious Caustic Soda chemical burn:


So playing with it isn't exactly big or clever...

kdouglas

yup, there's plenty of instructions online for making smoke bombs

the joke shop sells smoke bombs/pellets which give off a semi-decent amount of smoke, but they're not exactly throwable, was working on a metal container for them, tested a prototype at hrta, but i was using the smaller smoke pellets, the bigger ones give off alot more smoke

kdouglas

Rew wrote:

Caustic Soda is a very nasty chemical, used to clear drains as it disolves things including skin.

A serious Caustic Soda chemical burn:


So playing with it isn't exactly big or clever...

ouch, that looks nasty, does citric acid/bicorbonate soda have any bad effects on skin, according to the airsofthandgrenade website "the AG-01 is completely inoffensive and ideal to be used in any game field."


(hmmm... probably shouldnt be doing searches online for grenades/bombs and such given that im on a college pc!)

16airassualt

oops my mistake...try it out your back garden anyway,after seeing that picture id recomend wearing gloves though...although iv never experienced chemical burns from it,better to be safe than burnt

Fallschirmjager

rew...sorry if i said caustic...i meant citric...


its citric acid in the nades...

Rew

kdouglas wrote:

ouch, that looks nasty, does citric acid/bicorbonate soda have any bad effects on skin, according to the airsofthandgrenade website "the AG-01 is completely inoffensive and ideal to be used in any game field."

Thats stuff is harmless enough but you wouldn't want it in your eyes thats all (think and orange or lemon squeezed in to your eyses :eek: )

When I was a wee one, Cornflakes used to give away little boats that your put bakeing soda or bicorbonate soda in to and put them in the bath they would fly off. They were cool

Off the top of my head citric acid/bicorbonate soda neautralise each other and release water and CO2 in the process. The CO2 expands so if its trapped in somthing it can cause an explosion like, busting a baloon.

Fallschirmjager

Rew wrote:

Thats stuff is harmless enough but you wouldn't want it in your eyes thats all (think and orange or lemon squeezed in to your eyses :eek: )

When I was a wee one, Cornflakes used to give away little boats that your put bakeing soda or bicorbonate soda in to and put them in the bath they would fly off. They were cool

Off the top of my head citric acid/bicorbonate soda neautralise each other and release water and CO2 in the process. The CO2 expands so if its trapped in somthing it can cause an explosion like, busting a baloon.

that soulds like exactly what they are doing. u mix the citic acid in water and a plunger releases the bicarb, causing a pressure buildup...dispersing the bb's...very smart idea..

16airassualt

i think the same principal applys with the caustic soda bomb,exept the gas it produces is hydrogen...which i think is flamable aswell,so the baking soda one sounds a bit safer i do agree

Rew

Fallschirmjager wrote:

rew...sorry if i said caustic...i meant citric...

its citric acid in the nades...

You didn't 16airassault did.

It really is nasty stuff so casuing an explosion with it is asking for blindness/scaring/death and I really think suggesting trying it shouldn't be put up on boards.... its asking for trouble:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6633351.stm

Definition of Caustic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causticity

Off the top of my head a guy on his stag was seriously injured/killed when his mates tied hit to a lamp post and threw what they thought was water over him, turned out to be caustic soda....

CrazyRabbit

From a (in)famous internet book on the subject...

---

Most homemade smoke bombs usually employ some type of base powder, such as black powder or pyrodex, to support combustion. The base material will burn well, and provide heat to cause the other materials in the device to burn, but not completely or cleanly. Table sugar, mixed with sulfur and a base material, produces large amounts of smoke. Sawdust, especially if it has a small amount of oil in it, and a base powder works well also. Other excellent smoke ingredients are small pieces of rubber, finely ground plastics, and many chemical mixtures. The material in road flares can be mixed with sugar and sulfur and a base powder produces much smoke. Most of the fuel-oxidizer mixtures, if the ratio is not correct, produce much smoke when added to a base powder. The list of possibilities goes on and on. The trick to a successful smoke bomb also lies in the container used. A plastic cylinder works well, and contributes to the smoke produced. The hole in the smoke bomb where the fuse enters must be large enough to allow the material to burn without causing an explosion. This is another plus for plastic containers, since they will melt and burn when the smoke material ignites, producing an opening large enough to prevent an explosion.

---SIMPLE SMOKE---
The following reaction should produce a fair amount of smoke. Since this reaction is not all that dangerous you can use larger amounts if necessary

• 6 pt. ZINC POWDER
• 1 pt. SULFUR POWDER

Insert a red hot wire into the pile, step back.

---

Of course, getting the ingredients is always the hard part. Anyone got any spare Zinc or Sulfur lying around?

kdouglas

hmmm.. do they still sell those kid's chemistry sets in toy stores?

16airassualt

alright,rew is right i wouldnt be going to try the caustic soda thing as it is dangerous

Voodoomelon

A much safer way of making smoke grenades is to mix 3 parts potassium nitrate with 2 parts sugar. Cook it to until it forms a liquid substance and let it dry in a canister of your choice. Then simply light it.

You can see a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXgsn4uEyDI
And buy potassium nitrate here:

kdouglas

you can also light the required powders mixed on their own, doesnt give off as much smoke afaik, but safer than cooking it

very hard to get ingredients in ireland though

16airassualt

mabye something like a smoke machine could be used at htra,ive see a few of them in maplins electronics in town,they range from about 50-100 euros and are easily and cheaply refilled

they used to be used at my school plays and they put up a pretty decent smoke screen,and it takes ages before you have to refill it

kdouglas

yup, that idea has also been mentioned at hrta, run a few hoses to different rooms around the place, should work

o1s1n

Rew wrote:

You didn't 16airassault did.

It really is nasty stuff so casuing an explosion with it is asking for blindness/scaring/death and I really think suggesting trying it shouldn't be put up on boards.... its asking for trouble:

True. That'll be an end of all the home made bomb/smoke talk. Joke shop smoke bombs/pellets are one thing, but the information some of you are posting up is just too far.

Voodoomelon

Nothing wrong with my suggestion, completely safe.

o1s1n

Voodoomelon wrote:

Nothing wrong with my suggestion, completely safe.

Talk of home made explosives, black powder, potassium nitrate or other gunpowder components does not look good on a forum about a sport which is trying to distance itself as much as it can from firearms.

If you really want to discuss the subject there is a chemistry forum here;

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=391

Although I don't know how they'd look upon threads about explosives.

16airassualt

ive heard of a group called the I.R.Awho seem to be into the hobby of making explosives...mabye you could find their fourm??:D

kdouglas

in fairness, explosives and gunpowder were never mentioned

the citric acid and bicarbonate soda is a perfectly safe reaction (apparently) which produces co2 and water to be used for a simulated grenade, which is a part of the sport as one of the main aspects of it is the realistic simulation of military equipment, grenades being a part of this

although i do agree that the ingredients for the smoke bombs shouldnt be posted, and i've edited my posts to remove them

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote:

in fairness, explosives and gunpowder were never mentioned.

Explosives may have been a bad word. Devices with the tag "bomb" on the end of them might have been better to say. I don't want to start singling posts out so I won't. I'll just say that Black powder was mentioned. Saltpeter was mentioned. (Which is used in gunpowder).

kdouglas wrote:

the citric acid and bicarbonate soda is a perfectly safe reaction (apparently) which produces co2 and water to be used for a simulated grenade, which is a part of the sport as one of the main aspects of it is the realistic simulation of military equipment, grenades being a part of this

Pyros and such devices are a tricky subject here at the moment. So you'll just have to bare with me. Take it in the broader boards.ie context and not just airsoft. Anyone who posts on here could read it. Not just airsoft players. We really don't need people taking down ingredients, some of which could be potentially harmful and using them to attempt to make concoctions.

Better to stop this now before it goes any further.

kdouglas wrote:

although i do agree that the ingredients for the smoke bombs shouldnt be posted, and i've edited my post to remove them

Thanks for that.

Anyway, I think that's enough. Locked.