Stamp Duty Changes - What and When

tubes

Does anybody know what changes each party is proposing in relation to stamp duty?

I believe Bertie has said that the changes will benefit first time buyers and would be implemented before the summer if re-elected. Is there more specific information regarding their proposals?

I was looking at some speeches on the Fine Gael website and they seem to give conflicting information, but the most up to date info I could see was that for buyers (not first time buyers), the first 100K would be free of stamp duty, 3% on the next 359K and 9% above 450K. Have Fine Gael said when these measures would be implemented?

Any info from the PD's/Labour?

A Random Walk

FG/Labour/PD policies as published put more money into the hands of sellers only, and do nothing for buyers, don't get caught up in the hype. If a house costs 400k, and stamp duty is 20k, if stamp duty is removed the house price will now be 420k with the seller pocketing the 20k. It's a measure I believe aimed at reducing poverty amongst the property owning class.

ballooba

A Random Walk wrote:

It's a measure I believe aimed at reducing poverty amongst the property owning class.

People buying houses then?

A Random Walk

ballooba wrote:

People buying houses then?

If you're buying a house you should be hoping for something like a mortgage interest relief increase. Better still as house prices are falling (with a long to go) you should be hoping that politicians keep out of the way altogether and let the market get on with it.

Reductions in stamp duty do nothing for buyers, it goes straight into the pockets of sellers.

tubes

A Random Walk wrote:

Reductions in stamp duty do nothing for buyers, it goes straight into the pockets of sellers.

..Except maybe in my case. I have agreed to buy a house (one of only a few people who have done so in the past few weeks/months), We are due to sign papers etc towards the end of May. start of june. I am thinking that if the sale is delayed by a few weeks then I can avail of the new stamp duty rates while paying the agreed sale price.

What are the odds the new stamp duty proposals will be brought in in June, before the Dail go on their holidays?? This seems to be likely from what the parties are saying.

Does anybody know when stamp duty becomes payable? Is it on closing of the sale?

ballooba

A Random Walk wrote:

Reductions in stamp duty do nothing for buyers, it goes straight into the pockets of sellers.

You make it sound like you are stating fact when in fact you are basing your argument on pure assumption.

The same could be said for a reduction in VAT as the Greens are proposing.

Zambia

ballooba wrote:

You make it sound like you are stating fact when in fact you are basing your argument on pure assumption.

Last time it was reduced it went into sellers pockets. I agree with Random

A Random Walk

ballooba wrote:

You make it sound like you are stating fact when in fact you are basing your argument on pure assumption.

It's blatantly obvious what will happen because as Zambia said it happened the last time stamp duty was reduced. What makes it different this time?

ballooba

Stagnated and falling property prices.

grumpytrousers

tubes wrote:

Does anybody know when stamp duty becomes payable? Is it on closing of the sale?

you don't have to pay it until the deed is being sent to the Revenue for stamping...so you close the sale and you get the document stating that Joe Bloggs has sold the gaff to you...depending on how conscientious Joe Bloggs is, he might not have dated this deed. Stamp Duty has to be paid within one month of the deeds date.

Obviously you can't be registered as owner of a property until the deed is stamped, but if you thought it highly unlikely that somebody else would try and register themselves as owner of your new gaff, then you could hold off until the new regime came in...in theory

grumpytrousers

grumpytrousers wrote:

you don't have to pay it until the deed is being sent to the Revenue for stamping

That is true, but any proposed exemptions might be available only to people who signed a contract after a certain date. So even if the deed is unsigned, the date on the contracts may become relevant. They were relevant when the stamp duty regime was completely overhauled in the late 1990s, the contracts had to be after a certain date and had to be produced to Revenue with the Deed.

ircoha

ballooba wrote:

You make it sound like you are stating fact when in fact you are basing your argument on pure assumption.

The same could be said for a reduction in VAT as the Greens are proposing.

It is fact,as Cowen stated very clearly on Questions and answers last week. the price goes up: the same happens with interest relief, the sellers know that your net take home has gone up so the x% allowed by the lenders of your net take home is now a bigger number so the purchase price goes up. QEFD

The FTB's better wake TF up and realise that they are being conned by all the politicians.



The PD brochure dropped in houses is full of lies on the 'massive' SD savings.

VAT will be the same story: the price will stay the same, with the retailers pocketing the difference.

The same with the Green Houses grants, the grant went straight on the price of all the renewable energy stuff.

ballooba

ircoha wrote:

It is fact,as Cowen stated very clearly on Questions and answers last week.

Don't believe everything you hear on tv.

The property market is in cráp, sellers are not in any position to raise prices.

ircoha

ballooba wrote:

Don't believe everything you hear on tv.

The property market is in cráp, sellers are not in any position to raise prices.

When you have lived through 30%/40% negative equity and 18-20% interest rates then you can talk about crap, not till then:D

The sellers have no buyers: the hiccup is buyer driven right now because the lemmings think they will have "massive savings"

DublinDilbert

tubes wrote:

Does anybody know what changes each party is proposing in relation to stamp duty?

I believe Bertie has said that the changes will benefit first time buyers and would be implemented before the summer if re-elected. Is there more specific information regarding their proposals?

I was looking at some speeches on the Fine Gael website and they seem to give conflicting information, but the most up to date info I could see was that for buyers (not first time buyers), the first 100K would be free of stamp duty, 3% on the next 359K and 9% above 450K. Have Fine Gael said when these measures would be implemented?

Any info from the PD's/Labour?

Hi,

I know they are all talking about changing stamp duty right away "when" they get elected, but i can't see it happening... firstly they have to form a government, but as soon as they do that they are on their summer break, hence nothing is going to be done... I'd say the soonest they could possibly do anything would be in the november budget... but by that stage it might be a little late for the property market, if the current trend continues..

ballooba

ircoha wrote:

The sellers have no buyers: the hiccup is buyer driven right now because the lemmings think they will have "massive savings"

The "hiccup" is interest rate driven and is less to do with Stamp Duty.

Glenbhoy

tubes wrote:

..Except maybe in my case. I have agreed to buy a house (one of only a few people who have done so in the past few weeks/months), We are due to sign papers etc towards the end of May. start of june. I am thinking that if the sale is delayed by a few weeks then I can avail of the new stamp duty rates while paying the agreed sale price.

What are the odds the new stamp duty proposals will be brought in in June, before the Dail go on their holidays?? This seems to be likely from what the parties are saying.

Does anybody know when stamp duty becomes payable? Is it on closing of the sale?

So you reckon the vendor will sit and wait for 2 years until Kenny and Rabbitte decide when they'll implement their policies?

tubes

grumpytrousers and Conor74, thanks for the info!

Mitzy

Anyone who believes that any political party will do something about stamp duty immediately after being elected is foolish. Someone from Fine Gael was on the Six One news a couple of weeks ago & Brian Dobson repeatadly asked him if elected would they change the stamp duty the next day. He wouldn't answer the question so it was obvious that it is something they will look at further down the line. It maybe a budget issue, but as to whether it is this years budget or next years is anyones guess.
Stamp duty is a major earner for the Government and if they abolish it they will have to make up for it somewhere else by highering tax somewhere down the line. Therefore everyone will lose out!!!

ninty9er

The First Time Buyers issue is like the 3rd secret of Fatima within the party at the moment. I'd be surprised if more than 6 people know the proposal in its entirity.

My guess is that it will be interest relief based rather than stamp duty based. The FG, Labour and PD proposals have destabilised the market and Cowen is absolutely fuming with McDowell. Just as well the PDs won't be in govt in June!!

A vote for FG is a vote to collapse the housing market as no sane person is going to buy a house if they believe they can pay less tax on the sale at some future date. The fallacy in the argument being that slashing stamp duty won't reduce prices

Zambia

ninty9er wrote:

My guess is that it will be interest relief based rather than stamp duty based. The FG, Labour and PD proposals have destabilised the market and Cowen is absolutely fuming with McDowell. Just as well the PDs won't be in govt in June!!

If a car crashs who is to blame the driver or the passengers? FF should have addressed the rampant property prices issues years ago.

ballooba

ninty9er wrote:

My guess is that it will be interest relief based rather than stamp duty based. The FG, Labour and PD proposals have destabilised the market and Cowen is absolutely fuming with McDowell. Just as well the PDs won't be in govt in June!!

Actually, no. The ECB interest rate hikes destabilised the property market, and there are more on the way.

ninty9er wrote:

A vote for FG is a vote to collapse the housing market as no sane person is going to buy a house if they believe they can pay less tax on the sale at some future date. The fallacy in the argument being that slashing stamp duty won't reduce prices

The property market is already in decline. The real scandal is how FF did nothing about this over the last ten years. Bertie boasts about the decreased national debt but never mentions that it has been paid off through the personal debt which funded stamp duty.