Virtual Racing

Colonel Sanders

Just dropped down to my nearest bookmakers (its a ladbrokes) to watch the mighty moscow run at punchestown. I avoid bookies offices like the plague usually but had no other way of watching the race.

Must say I was shocked at the amount of Virtual Racing on and the number of people betting on it. They even had a guy analysing one race from steepledowns and issuing a recommendation on who to bet on. During the charity race itself there was no commentary but countless reminders that you couldn't bet on the punchestown race bot 'not to worry' as you could bet on BAGS and the next from Lucksin downs, Ladbrokes own virtual racecourse where the comentator reminded us that race 135 out of 156 today was about to start. 156 virtual races!!! Dear god.

Now I know its a hard sell and its up to the individual what they do or do not bet on but ffs this is ridiculous. What will happen if Ivan Yates gets his way and the dreaded FOBTs are introduced? I have seen their effect in England (people ceaselessly shovelling cash in) and must say they are not welcome here.

wb

How come they did not take bets on the Charity race? I had a bet on the exchanges.

knighted

because its not really governed by the normal rules of racing -bookies on track will take a bet

BangBeater

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Just dropped down to my nearest bookmakers (its a ladbrokes) to watch the mighty moscow run at punchestown. I avoid bookies offices like the plague usually but had no other way of watching the race.

Must say I was shocked at the amount of Virtual Racing on and the number of people betting on it. They even had a guy analysing one race from steepledowns and issuing a recommendation on who to bet on. During the charity race itself there was no commentary but countless reminders that you couldn't bet on the punchestown race bot 'not to worry' as you could bet on BAGS and the next from Lucksin downs, Ladbrokes own virtual racecourse where the comentator reminded us that race 135 out of 156 today was about to start. 156 virtual races!!! Dear god.

Now I know its a hard sell and its up to the individual what they do or do not bet on but ffs this is ridiculous. What will happen if Ivan Yates gets his way and the dreaded FOBTs are introduced? I have seen their effect in England (people ceaselessly shovelling cash in) and must say they are not welcome here.

The bookies are a business... Virtual Racing & the Bookmakers Afternoon Greyhound Service - BAGS - boost profits. It's up to us, as the customer, to choose not to use it, not the bookies to stop providing it!

masterK

They wouldn't bother with Virtual Racing if it wasn't profitable, so we can't really blame the bookies, if some idiot wants to part with his hard earned to bet on something he has no chance of profiting from long term then so be it.

redzerdrog

paddy powers were taking bets on the charity race in the shops as far as i know

Colonel Sanders

masterK wrote:

They wouldn't bother with Virtual Racing if it wasn't profitable, so we can't really blame the bookies, if some idiot wants to part with his hard earned to bet on something he has no chance of profiting from long term then so be it.

Thats the bottom line alright and its a free country.

My problem is that its similar to the likes of payment protection insurance and extended warranties, its unethical and preys on the most vulnerable amongst the bookmakers customer base, the type of people who don't know (or care) about the likes of over round, value etc.

masterK

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Thats the bottom line alright and its a free country.

My problem is that its similar to the likes of payment protection insurance and extended warranties, its unethical and preys on the most vulnerable amongst the bookmakers customer base, the type of people who don't know (or care) about the likes of over round, value etc.

Of course it's unethical, but so you could argue is the selling of alcohol as that preys upon those with alcohol addictions.

I'm a bit harsher than you, I've very little sympathy for anybody who makes bets on something they don't fully understand.

wb

Id also take a harsh line on this and think that anyone who parts with cash on a 'cartoon' race is an idiot - unless it is completely for fun with money you are willing to lose. Anyone who thinks they can make a profit from it needs their head examined. I cant believe that there are punters out there who consider it a betting opportunity. It's hard enough to make a few quid from real racing, never mind a pre determined, over-round cartoon. The 'vunerable' people who spend money on this rubbish deserve to lose it in my opinion.

fade2black

It's really quite simple lads. People walk into bookies and they want to win money. After about an hour they want to win the money they lost back. They will back on everything, flat race, jump race, african race, grey hound race, virtual race, lotto.....

(And they'll only tell you what they bet on...when they win...)

chump

fade2black wrote:

It's really quite simple lads. People walk into bookies and they want to win money. After about an hour they want to win the money they lost back. They will back on everything, flat race, jump race, african race, grey hound race, virtual race, lotto.....

(And they'll only tell you what they bet on...when they win...)

Always dislike going to the bookies to see the gatherings of down and outs betting on pretty much anything. The majority of the time they look mighty depressed...

BangBeater

Lads, people lose lots of money on the 'real' horses too.
The talk of sad rejects gambling on cartoons is a silly statement... it can be as much of a gamble when one is betting on the real horses. Ye seem to be missing the point... i.e. it is the act of gambling that is the attraction. & whether that be virtual animals, lotto, real horses, roulette, poker, then so be it.
Remember, all past-times cost you moula...

BangBeater

fade2black wrote:

It's really quite simple lads. People walk into bookies and they want to win money. After about an hour they want to win the money they lost back. They will back on everything, flat race, jump race, african race, grey hound race, virtual race, lotto.....

(And they'll only tell you what they bet on...when they win...)

Again, maybe people just like to gamble... not necessarily betting on foreign donkeys = chasing losses!

fr wishy washy

Have a look at the screens next time you're in a Bookies,I'm nearly sure I saw "Going down" before one of the Steeple Downs "races".:)

Colonel Sanders

BangBeater wrote:

Lads, people lose lots of money on the 'real' horses too.
The talk of sad rejects gambling on cartoons is a silly statement... it can be as much of a gamble when one is betting on the real horses. Ye seem to be missing the point... i.e. it is the act of gambling that is the attraction. & whether that be virtual animals, lotto, real horses, roulette, poker, then so be it.
Remember, all past-times cost you moula...

but with 'real' racing I only have a bet when i think the horse has a better chance than the odds imply. I love racing as a sport and only gamble as i reckon i can make a small profit from it over time (and have done so)

I suppose you have to leave the individual off an make his own decisions but it sickens me to see down and outs in the bookies all day every day who'd bet on 2 flies going up a wall if they were given the opportunity.

Were-rabbit

wb wrote:

Id also take a harsh line on this and think that anyone who parts with cash on a 'cartoon' race is an idiot - unless it is completely for fun with money you are willing to lose. Anyone who thinks they can make a profit from it needs their head examined. I cant believe that there are punters out there who consider it a betting opportunity. It's hard enough to make a few quid from real racing, never mind a pre determined, over-round cartoon. The 'vunerable' people who spend money on this rubbish deserve to lose it in my opinion.

I have been fascinated by this animation program for a while. I find it impossible to believe that somewhere in the race generating computer coding there is not some link between the amount of money placed on any one of the animated horses to That animation horses probability of finishing first.

Of course this link would have to be biased to increase the providers profit to make it worth while for them to provide the service. :eek:
They hardly would provide something that might be a negative to their books!!:rolleyes:
Anyone who thinks otherwise?????

Just one of the many reasons I would never be remotely tempted in placing a bet on a virtual race..

Hoofer

Stay clear of bookies...depressing places to go to, watching people betting on all races from all parts of the globe and getting cleaned out most of the time.

BangBeater

Hoofer wrote:

Stay clear of bookies...depressing places to go to, watching people betting on all races from all parts of the globe and getting cleaned out most of the time.

Stay clear of pubs...depressing places to go, watching people stumble out of them after a night drinking, & getting cleaned out from the price of a pint.... No, that's a bit hardline, just like the above comment.... Just keep your stake low & enjoy betting. When you've lost, you've lost & when you're up, just leave the place.

TOm Kelly

... must be a real bunch of winners on here ... I find it a bit distatseful - the attitude to the 'losers' in the betting shops.

... and the punters who don't frequent -- presumably these are the knowledgable ones - the exchange users ... I believe that something like 7 in a thousand win in the long term ...

who is to judge the mug in the betting shop, who at least has some social interaction, - or the superior punter isolated in front of a computer screen ... a higher calibre of loser?

BangBeater

TOm Kelly wrote:

... must be a real bunch of winners on here ... I find it a bit distatseful - the attitude to the 'losers' in the betting shops.

... and the punters who don't frequent -- presumably these are the knowledgable ones - the exchange users ... I believe that something like 7 in a thousand win in the long term ...

who is to judge the mug in the betting shop, who at least has some social interaction, - or the superior punter isolated in front of a computer screen ... a higher calibre of loser?

Very true.

& you know what really irritates me.... when people say 'oh don't go near such and such a betting shop because theres better odds on the exchanges, etc' - C'mere, finding the actual winner in the first place is hard enough. If it was that easy to pick a winner of course we'd all be going for the exchanges with better value.... but this is not reality!!

mcaul

Get a few lads to the house and have your own virtual racing!!

"Gone are the days of watching the same old races going round and round. Here's a truly interactive horse racing game in fantastic 3D animation. Unlike other betting games, 'First Past the Post' works out the odds and keeps track of your winnings, making a night in at the races great fun and easy to play. For both the experienced race-goer and the novice, everyone can join in the excitement. All horses are randomly generated so no two races are the same."


http://www.giftmaster.ie/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=3

masterK

BangBeater wrote:

Very true.

& you know what really irritates me.... when people say 'oh don't go near such and such a betting shop because theres better odds on the exchanges, etc' - C'mere, finding the actual winner in the first place is hard enough. If it was that easy to pick a winner of course we'd all be going for the exchanges with better value.... but this is not reality!!

Don't know what to make of that statement, it makes perfect sense to back wherever you can get the best odds, even if you only pick 1 winner in 10 bets. If for example you backed 10 4/1 shots in the bookies for €10 with only 1 winner you'd be down €50. If you did the same on an exchange where the price was 5/1 you'd only be down €40. In neither situation are you doing well but you are losing less by you using an exchange as you are availing of the best available odds.

imeatingchips

BangBeater wrote:

If it was that easy to pick a winner of course we'd all be going for the exchanges with better value....

So if you had any confidence in your selection you'd go to exchange

but...

if you'd no confidence in it you'd just head into the bricks n morter bookie?



Of course it's hard enough to pick a winner - that's exactly the reason why you should get paid as handsomely as possible when you do pick it!

If the exchange is too complicated (which, I fear, might be the case here) at least use www.oddschecker.com

If you're sat in the pub having a pint or somehow unable to take the best price available then head to the bookie and pay him for the convenience of it.

Colonel Sanders

bottom line is you should only have a bet when you believe the real world odds are shorter than the odds available. Unless you bet for 'fun' (personally i don't find any fun in losing money). If the best odds on your selection is available on the exchanges then thats where you should have your bet.

Bit like the time I was in a celtic bookmakers, some guy was having a bet on a horse at 7/1 moaning that the horse was '8s in stanleys'. the old stanleys shop was a 5 minute walk away yet he still backed it at 7/1, idiotic IMO.

BangBeater

masterK wrote:

Don't know what to make of that statement, it makes perfect sense to back wherever you can get the best odds, even if you only pick 1 winner in 10 bets. If for example you backed 10 4/1 shots in the bookies for €10 with only 1 winner you'd be down €50. If you did the same on an exchange where the price was 5/1 you'd only be down €40. In neither situation are you doing well but you are losing less by you using an exchange as you are availing of the best available odds.

True, but down €50 rather that €40 or €500 rather than €400... you're still down money. Comes back to the act of actually picking the correct outcome of an event. That's the key. Choosing an outcome, hoping it happens, & getting paid. Worrying about an extra x1 or x2 onto the SP is just made to be way more important & necessary than it really is IMO. Again, though, going back to your point, if you do not mind being down money, then yeah, I agree with you.

cson

I started working in a Bookies last summer and I couldn't believe the amount of interest in battery horses (Virtual Racing ) I kept asking myself do people actually see any logic in it, but then again logic flies out the window when you go into a bookies.

At the end of the day if you think you can make a living out of gambling you will find yourself much mistaken. It isn't just by chance that bookmakers are one of the fastest growing industries in this country and that Paddy Powers share price is tipping €18 a share.

So the next time you go to place a bet ask yourself, "why is this bookies still in business?".

BangBeater

imeatingchips wrote:

If the exchange is too complicated (which, I fear, might be the case here)

And you're just too cool to be seen in a bookies.

And you've, loike, got soooo much money from picking all the winners.

Indeed.

wb

BangBeater wrote:

True, but down €50 rather that €40 or €500 rather than €400... you're still down money. Comes back to the act of actually picking the correct outcome of an event. That's the key. Choosing an outcome, hoping it happens, & getting paid. Worrying about an extra x1 or x2 onto the SP is just made to be way more important & necessary than it really is IMO. Again, though, going back to your point, if you do not mind being down money, then yeah, I agree with you.

Not everyone who gambles is down money. I can show you plenty of examples of long term betting strategies here and elsewhere that show consisitent profit. It makes perfect sense to get the best price available. If you dont bother, then you dont really have much chance of making any money.

Colonel Sanders

BangBeater wrote:

And you're just too cool to be seen in a bookies.

And you've, loike, got soooo much money from picking all the winners.

Indeed.

I'm not 'too cool' to go to a bookies. I don't like them as they are full of people blaming jockeys that they have lost money (i have even heard clowns say a virtual horse got a bad ride), talking nonsense about things thy have no idea about and generally full of screens showing prices that compare poorly with the odds available online. Its not a snobbery thing.

fade2black

And if it is...who cares. You're not called a snob for shopping around for the better prices in other worldly markets.

Robin1982

So we're agreed. We need betfair markets for virtual racing. Thank God for that...

cson

reminds me of those yokes that were usually at the amusements with the horses in rows......ah the innocence of youth.

zuutroy

A lot of people in this thread dont seem to understand the theory behind bookmaking and gambling. I think bookmakers odds make it next to impossible in the long run to make money. If you come up with a great system, you're still unlikely to beat the over-round. I know this is certainly the case for baseball (I know its not popular but you might aswell light your smokes with your 20's!) Making money isn't about 'picking a winner'. It's about systematically ensuring that you're winnings on the winners are greater than your losses on the losers, as other people have said, by only betting where you (or your system) shows value. I really wonder about the number of people who, in their betting history are up money in their dealings with traditional bookies. On topic, virtual racing really is for the desperate and deluded.

imeatingchips

BangBeater wrote:

And you're just too cool to be seen in a bookies.

I said I go into the bookies when I'm having a few pints u muppet.

BangBeater wrote:

And you've, loike, got soooo much money from picking all the winners.
Indeed.

whats with the 'loike' and 'soooooo' ye langer? are u trying to say ive a posh americanised dublin accent? and if u read my post i said i know its hard enough to pick the winners so thats why u should be getting the best money and like Colonel Sanders said - what you're looking for is when the real world odds are shorter than what the bookie is giving. the odds you're getting is what makes something a value bet or not.

BangBeater wrote:

C'mere, finding the actual winner in the first place is hard enough. If it was that easy to pick a winner of course we'd all be going for the exchanges with better value.... but this is not reality!!

you're an idiot

knighted

zuutroy wrote:

A lot of people in this thread dont seem to understand the theory behind bookmaking and gambling. I think bookmakers odds make it next to impossible in the long run to make money. If you come up with a great system, you're still unlikely to beat the over-round. I know this is certainly the case for baseball (I know its not popular but you might aswell light your smokes with your 20's!) Making money isn't about 'picking a winner'. It's about systematically ensuring that you're winnings on the winners are greater than your losses on the losers, as other people have said, by only betting where you (or your system) shows value. I really wonder about the number of people who, in their betting history are up money in their dealings with traditional bookies. On topic, virtual racing really is for the desperate and deluded.

like most people on here i started my gambling in a bookies shop -now i hate them with a vengence-because in my opinion they have changed in recent years and are much more board room controlled as oppossed to the old type independant who was taking u on more or less one to one -they are now percentage driven with trading rooms and dont really care if u win cause they have it covered either way -they still take thier scalp -they are turnover driven to create cashflow for thier parent companies to invest in other things -
they have targeted the lower educated or most vunerable in our society-everytime a new shopping centre opens up u will see a new bookie close by -this is not by chance just like most pubs have a bookie shop close by -few scoops and u think u are invinceable -bookies shops nowadays dont need horse racing as thier main cashflow ,they make much more on the lotto bets from the supermaket shops and their cartoon racing is a big money spinner just like the bags greyhounds -
they have identified people in there shops reason for gambling day in day out -its escapeism from real life -for three minutes during a race that they have bet on ,they forget thier troubles or problems and get a big adrenilin rush -the result is irrelevent to these people cause win or lose they are back to reality -until the next race -plus when they do win the bookie doesnt mind paying them as he knows it will be back in his till in a matter of hours -

bookies dont mind bigger players staying away from there shops or knowledgable lads like urselfs that actually do a bit of research into ur bets and can control there gambling/investing because in the long term they will make more money out of the shop jockeys than they will off anyone reading this -

there are still a few decent bookies around dont get me wrong but its the big chains that are going to damage people in the long run -gamblers anon is going to have to open as many branches in the near future as pp bs ld
-

Hoofer

BangBeater wrote:

Stay clear of pubs...depressing places to go, watching people stumble out of them after a night drinking, & getting cleaned out from the price of a pint.... No, that's a bit hardline, just like the above comment.... Just keep your stake low & enjoy betting. When you've lost, you've lost & when you're up, just leave the place.

Im referring to anybody who lives in the bookies gambling all their dosh and I can't stand the punters in their that lose a race and start ranting on about how crap the trainer/jockey are that they backed and lost.I have heard alot of ignorant statements in bookies in the past, thats why i do not go into them anymore.The majority of punters who hang around bookies all day punting never grace the racetracks of Ireland and thats a fact.

Colonel Sanders

Hoofer wrote:

Im referring to anybody who lives in the bookies gambling all their dosh and I can't stand the punters in their that lose a race and start ranting on about how crap the trainer/jockey are that they backed and lost.I have heard alot of ignorant statements in bookies in the past, thats why i do not go into them anymore.The majority of punters who hang around bookies all day punting never grace the racetracks of Ireland and thats a fact.

thats it in a nutshell pretty much.

During aintree when Tidal bay won the novice hurdle on the thursday I was in the same ladbrokes as I mentioned in my original post. Some guy in there had obviously backed tidal bay. For the first 2 miles or so all he had to say was 'good man PAddy, out in front outta trouble'. Next Wins now comes cruising and his attitude changes to 'you fcuking eejit Brennan', wins now makes a mistake and tidal bay is left to win easily and its back to 'go on paddy you beauty'. Nuff said.

TOm Kelly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofer
Im referring to anybody who lives in the bookies gambling all their dosh and I can't stand the punters in their that lose a race and start ranting on about how crap the trainer/jockey are that they backed and lost.I have heard alot of ignorant statements in bookies in the past, thats why i do not go into them anymore.The majority of punters who hang around bookies all day punting never grace the racetracks of Ireland and thats a fact.

Colonel Sanders wrote:

thats it in a nutshell pretty much.

During aintree when Tidal bay won the novice hurdle on the thursday I was in the same ladbrokes as I mentioned in my original post. Some guy in there had obviously backed tidal bay. For the first 2 miles or so all he had to say was 'good man PAddy, out in front outta trouble'. Next Wins now comes cruising and his attitude changes to 'you fcuking eejit Brennan', wins now makes a mistake and tidal bay is left to win easily and its back to 'go on paddy you beauty'. Nuff said.

LOL - you guys should visit the Betfair forum where the knowledgeable, superior punters spend their lives - often disecting races and slaughtering jockeys, trainers and horses in a manner and magnitude that makes the average disgruntled betting shop punter look like a veritable equine intellectual ...

masterK

TOm Kelly wrote:

LOL - you guys should visit the Betfair forum where the knowledgeable, superior punters spend their lives - often disecting races and slaughtering jockeys, trainers and horses in a manner and magnitude that makes the average disgruntled betting shop punter look like a veritable equine intellectual ...

Just because you bet online doesn't make you superior to the betting shop punter, all it means is you have a PC with internet access. The betfair forum is certainly proof of that. There have been some very knowledgeable posters on that forum over the years who no longer post. It's more like a playground than a forum, I'd guess the average age of the posters is about 19.

wb

I place almost all of my bets online, not because I am superior in any way, but it is simply much easier to get the best value. You don't have to walk from bookie to bookie, and you also have the exchanges at your disposal. If I can get 16/1, where everyone else is offering 12s, I'd be foolish not to take it. It's not a snobbery thing at all, and in fact I still use the bookies when I'm out and about as I quite like the atmosphere.

Anyone who knows me will testify that I'm a big fan of the exchanges and betfair in particular, however the forum there is full of idiots. Just like in a bookies, you get knowledgeable people/idiots online too.

At the end of the day, most people gamble for fun and feel that the overall monetary loss that 95% incur is worth it for the entertainment. I still think that anyone actually trying to make money from virtual racing is an idiot though. As I said earlier, it's hard enough but not impossible to make a few quid on real racing, but betting on a cartoon is simply beyond me.

Colonel Sanders

TOm Kelly wrote:

LOL - you guys should visit the Betfair forum where the knowledgeable, superior punters spend their lives - often disecting races and slaughtering jockeys, trainers and horses in a manner and magnitude that makes the average disgruntled betting shop punter look like a veritable equine intellectual ...

Very few punters I actually have any respect for post on the betfair forum except on teh Irish sports section. As someone else pointed out the main forum is more lik a playground. I very rarely read it, I use betfair to bet not to act the eejit on its forum.

As wb says when betting online value is far easier to obtain. Why shouldn't I bet with bet365 (for example) who don'y have a high st presence in ireland if they are a bigger price than my local bookies?

BangBeater

Colonel Sanders wrote:

I'm not 'too cool' to go to a bookies. I don't like them as they are full of people blaming jockeys that they have lost money (i have even heard clowns say a virtual horse got a bad ride), talking nonsense about things thy have no idea about and generally full of screens showing prices that compare poorly with the odds available online. Its not a snobbery thing.

Firstly, I wasn't addressing the 'too cool'-americanised-Dublin-accent at you. Secondly, the bookmakers are not FULL of people blaming jockeys... Yes, they're SOME in there. And giving out about a jockey is allowed. It is termed critiscm. In case you haven't forgotten, horseracing is a sport, just like soccer when people give out about such and such a player playing ****e, etc. Same concept. It's a desire to see an event with your desired outcome, money on or not, that leads to people giving out about certain aspects of sport.

Colonel Sanders wrote:

i have even heard clowns say a virtual horse got a bad ride

Just in case you might have forgotten, this is generally termed humour. Google the word in case you might need reminding. Virtual Horses are just a means of fun gambling just like the roulette & lotto as I have said earlier.

BangBeater

imeatingchips wrote:

I said I go into the bookies when I'm having a few pints u muppet.


whats with the 'loike' and 'soooooo' ye langer? are u trying to say ive a posh americanised dublin accent? and if u read my post i said i know its hard enough to pick the winners so thats why u should be getting the best money and like Colonel Sanders said - what you're looking for is when the real world odds are shorter than what the bookie is giving. the odds you're getting is what makes something a value bet or not.



you're an idiot

No, if you read your original post; the one I was refering to also, you never specifically said that YOU go into a bookies when you are having a few pints... Correct? You were referring to the third person if one was having a pint.

On th other hand, apologies for hastily accusing you of that type of Dublin accent... but your post implied a certain snobbery of sorts, that you know it all, that you are just that great (loike... lol!)

And I'm not an idiot. But you my friend.....

Colonel Sanders

BangBeater wrote:

Just in case you might have forgotten, this is generally termed humour. Google the word in case you might need reminding. Virtual Horses are just a means of fun gambling just like the roulette & lotto as I have said earlier.

any time I hear someone criticising a jockey 9/10 they have no basis. their horse was beaten fair and square. On numerous occasions I hear 'that fcuker McCoy' being dircted at anything that runs in JP's colours despite the fact AP McCoy isn't riding it. And the person i heard giving out about the riding of a virtual horse was dead serious judging by his curses and facial expressions. Of course you have a right to criticise, however its unfounded, brain dead criticism that annoys me, hence my dislike of bookmakers shops. in my experience over 80% of office punters have no interest/love of racing, they just gamble for the sake of it and would bet on two flies going up a wall if given the chance. The type of people as someone else pointed out have never visited a racecoure in their lives.

I know the 'too cool' comment wasn't directed at me personally I was just saying that not liking bookies isn't a snobbery thing.

BangBeater

Colonel Sanders wrote:

any time I hear someone criticising a jockey 9/10 they have no basis. their horse was beaten fair and square. On numerous occasions I hear 'that fcuker McCoy' being dircted at anything that runs in JP's colours despite the fact AP McCoy isn't riding it. And the person i heard giving out about the riding of a virtual horse was dead serious judging by his curses and facial expressions. Of course you have a right to criticise, however its unfounded, brain dead criticism that annoys me, hence my dislike of bookmakers shops. in my experience over 80% of office punters have no interest/love of racing, they just gamble for the sake of it and would bet on two flies going up a wall if given the chance. The type of people as someone else pointed out have never visited a racecoure in their lives.

I know the 'too cool' comment wasn't directed at me personally I was just saying that not liking bookies isn't a snobbery thing.

Yeah man, I agree with the fact there are a certain amount of brain dead individuals with an IQ of about -10 in bookies no doubt. And it is fustrating to hear the ****e they spew, when they don't realise what jockeys go through (& who exactly is riding the feicin horse... lol!)

In fact I have noticed a difference in the amount of weirdos/****e talkers in city bookies in comparison to more urban/rurally located bookies... strange but true!

fr wishy washy

masterK wrote:

The betfair forum is certainly proof of that. There have been some very knowledgeable posters on that forum over the years who no longer post. It's more like a playground than a forum, I'd guess the average age of the posters is about 19.

The Irish Sports forum there is still worth watching as there's not too much messing there and race day threads on Irish meeting are very informative.

The main Horse racing forum is a disgrace.