Senate election

Senator

Any other Trinity graduates here ? Are you interested in the forthcoming Seanad election ? Senator Mary Henry is stepping down so that means a real contest this time instead of just a shoo-in for the sitting 3 senators. Who do you reckon will get in ?:)

Andrew 83

I reckon Norris and Shane Ross should keep their seats with Bacik taking 3rd. Sean O'Connor should do well though and might beat her judging on the amount of post he's sent out!

Stargal

Senator wrote:

Any other Trinity graduates here ?

There's a few of us knocking about the place

Senator wrote:

Are you interested in the forthcoming Seanad election ? Senator Mary Henry is stepping down so that means a real contest this time instead of just a shoo-in for the sitting 3 senators. Who do you reckon will get in ?

I was talking about this with my friend the other night, and my money's on Shane Ross and David Norris (like, no waaaaay) with Ivana Bacik to take the third seat.

Just out of interest, why are you called Senator? Are you affiliated with one of the campaigns? Are you running? What do you think yourself?

Senator

Hi, the name 'Senator' was plucked out of the air as I wanted to talk about the senate election and it was the first name that came to mind which nobody else seemed to have nabbed yet. I'm not affiliated to anyone's campaign (honest) and I think your reading of the likely outcome is probably correct : the 2 remaining sitting senators, Ross and Norris, and Ivana Bacik.

If you'll excuse me now please I must attend to myself medically. You see, the local recycling has just been lifted by the Council and I popped outside to bring in the green bin. Unfortunately - somehow - a piece of glass was trapped under the rim and it stuck in my finger as I pulled the thing along. I thought it was just a thorn or something and brushed it off with my other hand and now find I'm bleeding from 3 separate cuts to my paws - 2 on the left hand and one on the right !!!

So much for the benefits of "going Green" ! :mad:

King.Penguin

Man I wish I could vote in this. Or do I? I'd have to go with lovely couple and suggest Ross and Norris to win. Backache will have her time in the sun when a few more women graduate.

Senator

I agree, Ross and Norris make a lovely couple.

PHB

What's funny about this election, and something not publically known, is that if you are a scholar, you get a vote in this election.

Therefore, the smarter you are, the more votes you get

Senator

Do those who pick up Honorary degrees get votes too ?

Edwardius

hmm, has anyone heard of candidates offering members of the register "perks" ? I know someone who was invited for drinks by a certain senator round about the last election. Mine's a redbreast lads!

Stargal

Senator wrote:

Hi, the name 'Senator' was plucked out of the air as I wanted to talk about the senate election and it was the first name that came to mind which nobody else seemed to have nabbed yet. I'm not affiliated to anyone's campaign (honest) and I think your reading of the likely outcome is probably correct : the 2 remaining sitting senators, Ross and Norris, and Ivana Bacik

I was just curious - you can understand how it looked a little spooky that someone would turn up talking about who would get elected and calling themselves Senator Hope your finger is ok!

Yeah I'm going with those 3 just because I think Ivana is brilliant, David Norris gave me some great quotes for an article earlier in the year and I really liked Shane Ross's stunt where he paid €10,000 to the toll road company. I haven't actually heard from any of the other candidates, which is a bit odd.

Time Magazine

Laika wrote:

Yeah I'm going with those 3 just because I think Ivana is brilliant

If millions of dead babiesd is your thing yeah!

King.Penguin

I'd vote for ivanna if she was more physically attractive.

John

So you're voting for Norris instead. He'll be pleased.

Tricity Bendix

Laika wrote:

because I think Ivana is brilliant

Man-hating bitch. Anti-fathers rights, pro-abortion, the woman is the personification of everything I hate.

foxybrowne

If I had a vote, I'd go for Ivana Bacik no. 1 - she's an dedicated campaigner on womens' rights and knows her stuff - and David Norris no. 2 - he's done excellent work on human rights and other progressive issues and he's a great speaker. There's some though who'd advocate spoiling Seanad votes, due to its weird undemocratic elitist election system, so I'm not sure what I'd do really. Will have plenty of time to muse on it after I secure the degree first.

Senator

b.ie polar wrote:

Man-hating bitch. Anti-fathers rights, pro-abortion, the woman is the personification of everything I hate.

Can you supply evidence to back up your allegations, or are you just having a rant ?

John

How do you go about voting for this? I'm fairly ignorant on how the world works outside my bubble.

King.Penguin

fill out the form at the bottom of this page http://www.shane-ross.ie/constituency/ and post it in I reckon. gg baby steps.

ApeXaviour

Senator wrote:

Can you supply evidence to back up your allegations, or are you just having a rant ?

The woman is quite clearly a hypocrite. She portrays herself as a pioneer of progressiveness and equality, yet for some reason fathers' rights don't fit into her pretty little ideology (see quote below). How she gets away with such blatant misandry in this apparently enlightened age, I do not know...

One thing I will support her on is her state childcare policy. Provide it and you give more people the opportunity to work. Note how I say "people", not "women" like her good self. Believe it or not there are stay at home fathers too. Most politicians are men and I still refer to them as people...

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1215380&issue_id=11137 wrote:

FORMER Europe candidate Ivana Bacik has criticised men's groups for "aggressive macho posturing" on fathers' rights.

Responding to claims men were discriminated against in family law cases, she said such critics tended to be "male, middle-aged, embittered, but utterly convinced of their own rightness".

...

"These men's sense of self-righteousness is limitless, and they have a strong disposition for personal attacks on anyone who dares to disagree with them," she claimed.

The hypocracy is so very very mind-boggling. If I was not in a contructive mood I could replace all above utterances of "men" or "male" above with "femininsts" and "female", and at the very least I don't see how it would be any less true.

Tricity Bendix

Can you supply evidence to back up your allegations, or are you just having a rant ?

Well, seeing as how ApeXaviour has covered the fathers' rights bit, I'll cover the abortion bit.

Ivana on her website wrote:

I believe in... Legalisation of abortion as part of a comprehensive policy to provide full reproductive health services to all women and men.

I think my job was the easier.

Time Magazine

b.ie polar wrote:

I think my job was the easier.

You still haven't provided evidence that she's the personification of everything you hate.

Senator

As it happens, I agree with Ms Bacik on the abortion issue. The present ridiculous situation before the courts at the moment where a 17 year old cannot leave the country for a termination shows up how stupid the current legislative position still is after umpteen referenda.

Stargal

As it happens, I agree with Ms Bacik on the abortion issue.

Think it's Prof Bacik

Time Magazine

Laika wrote:

Think it's Prof Bacik

How chauvinistic of you to remove her of her feminine identity.

Stargal

I'm such a misogynist. Keep the wimmins down, that's my motto.

Senator

Please keep these silly jokes for the NUI forum. We are Trinity, we have standards.

Time Magazine

Laika wrote:

I'm such a misogynist. Keep the wimmins down, that's my motto.

I'd say to not even pluralise them and just refer to "women", but then they migth be harder to supress as a single body.

They should have the right to vote though, in fairness.

Stargal

Senator wrote:

Please keep these silly jokes for the NUI forum. We are Trinity, we have standards.

/shakes head sadly

No. No we don't.

Ibid wrote:

They should have the right to vote though, in fairness.

Really? The rise of universal suffrage neatly parallels the rise of ideologies in Western societies throughout the 20th century, which led to years of conflict, millions of deaths and economic and social turmoil. End female suffrage now, I say.

Tricity Bendix

Ibid wrote:

You still haven't provided evidence that she's the personification of everything you hate.

What, you want me to burn an effigy or some thing?

Right, the two things I hate most in life are people who hate me (me being a manly man's man) and people who hate babies.

Laika wrote:

The rise of universal suffrage neatly parallels the rise of ideologies in Western societies throughout the 20th century, which led to years of conflict, millions of deaths and economic and social turmoil. End female suffrage now, I say.

Yes, because we were all having such a marvelous and war-free time in the 1800's. Let them vote, I say, if only to stop them murdering innocent horses.

Crash

back on topic. Please.

Stargal

Sorry

Senator

b.ie polar, what evidence have you that Ivana Bacik "hates babies" ?

King.Penguin

I dunno where I stand on abortion. However, when someone with a womb tells me my opinion shouldn't matter cos I don't have one, that's annoying.

Ivanna Bakik, didn't she go to the pixies gig in phoenix park? keeping it real real.

John

Senator wrote:

As it happens, I agree with Ms Bacik on the abortion issue. The present ridiculous situation before the courts at the moment where a 17 year old cannot leave the country for a termination shows up how stupid the current legislative position still is after umpteen referenda.

I agree but her stance on father's right is suspect to me. I really need to do more research into all this.

Senator

Well, John, you'll never have a better opportunity to ask her direct questions than now with an election upcoming :

http://www.ivanabacik.com

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Senator wrote:

Well, John, you'll never have a better opportunity to ask her direct questions than now with an election upcoming :

http://www.ivanabacik.com

let me guess ... based on your six favourable / defending comments on Bacik so far, that you are voting for her?!

thanks for signing up to tell us this.

Ross / Norris / Bacik for me.

Although, don't like the direct affiliation of Bacik to a political party as it might lead to a lack of impartiality. Don't think she is going to represent TCD as much as she will be representing her political beliefs in general. Shane Ross seems to be best at representing TCD.

Think she might also lose out on a seat if science gets determined to keep the 'science senate seat' of Mary Henry. Especially given that Ross and Norris are obviously safe.

Tricity Bendix

Senator wrote:

b.ie polar, what evidence have you that Ivana Bacik "hates babies" ?

She wants to kill them.

King.Penguin

Anyone have any kind of pseudo-friendly elections with the professor herself? Perhaps they would like to show her (or one of her spokespeople) this thread.

I'm sure IB isn't as bad as some people make her out to be.

Senator

Roundtower2 wrote:

let me guess ... based on your six favourable / defending comments on Bacik so far, that you are voting for her?!

thanks for signing up to tell us this.

Ross / Norris / Bacik for me.

Although, don't like the direct affiliation of Bacik to a political party as it might lead to a lack of impartiality. Don't think she is going to represent TCD as much as she will be representing her political beliefs in general. Shane Ross seems to be best at representing TCD.

Think she might also lose out on a seat if science gets determined to keep the 'science senate seat' of Mary Henry. Especially given that Ross and Norris are obviously safe.

I did NOT say I was supporting Bacik ! In fact it was not me who initially brought her into the equation at all and, having reviewed my posts, I see I've only actually posted that I agree with her on 1 issue (the ridiculous situation in relation to abortion at present). Agreeing with another poster that Bacik will probably get the 3rd seat is NOT actually supporting her. I've also asked about her alleged policies/positions that have been criticised by others but no replies are forthcoming from them to substantiate their claims.

You favour Shane Ross on the basis he is non-aligned. Well, you may not know that Ross ran for Fine Gael in Wicklow a few years back having previously made a big issue of how some politicians use the Senate either as a launching pad into the Dáil or as a safety net when they fail to win Dáil seats. When he abandoned Trinity and ran for a Dáil seat for FG in Wicklow he failed to get elected. Then he ran back to Trinity and stood as an Independent in the Senate election with no word on his manifesto about his failed FG candidacy in Wicklow. I'll look the details up this evening and post them here tomorrow. So much for non-party Ross !

One final thing, the fact that it's a PR election with 3 seats means I can "support" several candidates including some or all of those mentioned or others yet to be nominated. I'll make up my mind when I consider ALL of the candidates and their policies in due course.

p.s. Just remembered - Mary Robinson was also a member of the Labour Party when elected a TCD senator.

Here, I found this for you to be going on with :

http://www.electionsireland.org/candidate.cfm?ID=4108

The year was 1992 when Shane Ross ran for FG in Wicklow.

gilroyb

Ross was elected as an independent to the Seanad in October of 1981, taking the seat previously ocupied by Conor Cruise O'Brien.
http://oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=15&ConstID=209&disp=mem


In the election to the 27th Dail in 1992 he ran as a FG candidate.
http://www.electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=1992&cons=235

The Ross page on elections ireland has him as a FG candidate for the seanad in 1993, the Seanad members page has him back as an independent.
http://oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=20&ConstID=209&disp=mem

Mary Robinson was an independent senator who then decided to take the whip, so to speak, at least according to the oiceachtas page referenced above, but it's not entirely clear because she seems to be down as an independent, then a labour senator, and then an independent again at a later stage.

Anyway, Ivana has said she's campaigning as an independent for the Seanad election, not a labour candidate. Therefore any above mentioned baby killing policies are entirely her own, rather than the party line.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Senator wrote:

You favour Shane Ross on the basis he is non-aligned. Well, you may not know that Ross ran for Fine Gael in Wicklow a few years back having previously made a big issue of how some politicians use the Senate either as a launching pad into the Dáil or as a safety net when they fail to win Dáil seats. When he abandoned Trinity and ran for a Dáil seat for FG in Wicklow he failed to get elected. Then he ran back to Trinity and stood as an Independent in the Senate election with no word on his manifesto about his failed FG candidacy in Wicklow. I'll look the details up this evening and post them here tomorrow. So much for non-party Ross !

Knew the first bit of this, not the second bit, so thanks for pointing it out ...

Although you do say that he "ran for Fine Gael in Wicklow a few years back" - a quick google suggests that it was 17 years ago (http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2000/12/03/story953421138.asp), so it is hardly recent history ... think he would be viewed as very independent at this stage.

Also, just because he did it, doesn't make it right. I personally don't think there should be party political affiliations by anyone running for the university senatorships, but that's just my opinion. The affiliation should be to the body of electors that votes for you. All the political parties already have their own senators.

EDIT: previous post by gilroyb has corrected some of the timelines I state in this post

ApeXaviour

b.ie polar wrote:

Well, seeing as how ApeXaviour has covered the fathers' rights bit, I'll cover the abortion bit.

While I'm fairly stringently anti-abortion, I deliberately didn't touch on it as I realise it's not exactly a fringe issue.

Abortion debates are just not fun, emotions get too heated. It'd prob be better if we mimic our government and not touch the issue with a barge pole. I'll leave it for the moment, but if the thread degrades into a shouting match I'll be splitting and locking it.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

gilroyb wrote:

Anyway, Ivana has said she's campaigning as an independent for the Seanad election, not a labour candidate. Therefore any above mentioned baby killing policies are entirely her own, rather than the party line.

Headline: " Bacik to Rabbitte: "Hands off my baby-killing policies" "

/p.s. stargal if you want me to help you come up with some catchy newspaper headlines for when you are working for the Sunday Tribune, just send me a PM! The above is the least of my creativity...

Stargal

ApeXaviour wrote:

Abortion debates are just not fun, emotions get too heated. It'd prob be better if we mimic our government and not touch the issue with a barge pole.

Well then on that note, can I ask that people stop talking about 'baby-killing'? I'm not sure if it's being used sarcastically or not, but it's inflammatory and begging for a harsh response.

Roundtower2 wrote:

Headline: " Bacik to Rabbitte: "Hands off my baby-killing policies"

/p.s. stargal if you want me to help you come up with some catchy newspaper headlines for when you are working for the Sunday Tribune, just send me a PM! The above is the least of my creativity...

Ah, le mot juste

Tricity Bendix

If I graduate I'm only going to vote for those who promise to support reform of the university seats so that they more accurately reflect third level institutions in today's Ireland.

If that means Trinity will drop a seat or two, I'd be happy.

Senator

As gilroyb's and other references show, Shane Ross went from being a Fine Gaeler in the Dáil election on 25 November 1992 to being an Independent senator on 17 February 1993 - remarkable !

I was around at the time, being now long in the tooth, and well recall his attack in his Manifesto for the 18th Seanad on those who used the Senate as a "springboard" for personal and party Dáil ambitions on the one hand and as a safety net if those Dáil ambitions failed on the other. And yet he used it in exactly that way himself !

He wasn't the first though. Conor Cruise-O'Brien has been referred to. He lost his Dáil seat out in Howth (and his position as Minister for Posts & Telegraphs) in the 1977 General Election and scuttled into Trinity to get himself a nomination for the Seanad. He duly took a seat, elected by the academic elite when rejected by the Howth plebs. Cruise-O'Brien only stayed 2 years and resigned in June 1979 when he got a better offer from The Observer.

Obviously, Ross learned from the Cruiser.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Senator wrote:

Anti-Ross irrelevant rant

whatever ... he is good at his job.

Don't think anyone would disagree with this

(I would NEVER vote Fine Gael, but i will be voting for him)

Senator

My views won't be irrelevant if Fine Gael form the main part of the next administration and Ross seeks to rejoin them to get some government post in the Seanad - and I wouldn't bet against such a possibility.

gilroyb

If I could find anyone to take the bet I'd put as many bags of cash on it as I could. Ross will stay as an independent unless he's really, really, stupid. Trust me, he's not stupid. His political career will not go further than the Seanad, at the moment his independent status gives him the spring board for a range of other things, such as the recent EBS directorship stuff, the offering to pay €10,000 worth of tolls (which was a PR master-stroke), not to mention his journalistic career which would be harmed if the SINDO thought it was just publishing the party line.

He has nothing at all to gain from FG, and they know that he wont be a future Dail candidate for them, so they wouldn't want to 'waste' an official title on him.

Senator

gilroyb wrote:

his journalistic career which would be harmed if the SINDO thought it was just publishing the party line.

The Sindo doesn't mind publishing the party line in Willie O'Dea's case.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into an anti-Ross thing or a pro-Bacik thing. I'm sure they're both wonderful people.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

b.ie polar wrote:

If I graduate I'm only going to vote for those who promise to support reform of the university seats so that they more accurately reflect third level institutions in today's Ireland.

If that means Trinity will drop a seat or two, I'd be happy.

I gather that it is a, more or less, forgone conclusion that all the university seats are going in the next five-ten years. There is some review currently being undergone to reform the senate and get rid of these seats. Once again, someone probably has more precise information on this than me.