Labour and Fine Gael Clashing

The_Minister

It's funny that this should happen now, after they've gotten a decent polling, but the old issue of abortion has raised its ugly head again.
Basically, Labour has always promised to legislate on the X-case, with vast swathes of Labour supporters being pro-choice, many of them militantly so.
The problem is, Enda Kenny has given a commitment to the "Irish Catholic" not to legislate on abortion if returned to government.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHAUQLSNGBQL
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=39&si=1818951&issue_id=15550
This is definately a headache that the Opposition don't want, as both parties have extremely opposing views on this contentious issue.

Also, apparently the issue of animal welfare is also coming up, with most anti-hunting groups voting Labour (apparently), and Enda Kenny having given a committment not to restrict or ban hunting.

MontgomeryClift

So if FF got what they so desperately wanted and formed a coalition with Labour, this would not be an issue? FF must be pro-abortion now eh?

Well they must be, since they are currently in coalition with pro-abortion Progressive Democrats.

Jonny Arson

Slow day in PD HQ Minister?

In reality these issues are not prominent election issues for the vast majority of people so they are pretty irrelevant at this moment of time in the whole grand scheme of things. I'd hardly think Kenny and Rabbite are losing sleep or fighting with each other over these issues. A time will come where the abortion issue will have to come back into the public domain for debate but the parties are working well with each other and have done in the past so there's not a chance of any future government collapsing over these issues.

The apparent difference of opinion in an election issue such as stamp duty between the FF/PD coalition is way more intriguing.

brianthebard

MontgomeryClift wrote:

So if FF got what they so desperately wanted and formed a coalition with Labour, this would not be an issue? FF must be pro-abortion now eh?

Well they must be, since they are currently in coalition with pro-abortion Progressive Democrats.

That's some jump. And in another thread we have already established that the PD's are for individual choice and have no policy as a party.

is_that_so

It's not one of the major issues. It's also one of the most divisive. Woe betide anyone that throws that into an election mix. Legislation or not, it is for those occasions when government is actually discussing legislation. I have to say , with respect to the OP, not many real issues in there, that I will be nailing local politicians on.

Whoever gets into government will fight their positions but if I am basing my vote on whether a party wants to legislate the X case or not , then I think I might be missing something.

Dontico

Rstricting hunting? If anything our hunting laws should be loosened.

Dave!

Interesting. I would think that an abortion referendum is due in the near future though...... things have changed since the 80s. Madonna and all that......

gandalf

LOL if this is the best FF and PD's can do then they are already lost.

Abortion is a non issue in this election. The only abortive issue I care about is the vivisection of the Healthservice by this current crowd of back street butchers.

mike65

Justin Barrett might see his chance.

Mike.

gandalf

How many votes did he get in the last election Mike?

JerkyBoy

Who gives a flying monkey-turd about abortion? It's a non issue!
FF\PDs must really be getting desperate!!
Perhaps they should publish their joint policy on abortion for us all to see...

The_Minister

@Gandalf: Just to clarify, I am writing my own opinion, not that of FF + PDs.
@Johnny Arson: FF have not said what they are planning for stamp duty, so for now there is no clash. The only clash there was between FG/Lab with FG foolishly (and oddly) wanting to drag stamp duty reform out over many months, thus damaging the housing market, by making sure that people will not buy, as they are waiting for the reforms to finish (I still don't understand that policy )

I have not said that it will result in a split, or the breakdown of the coalition, but I just feel that it shows that Fine Gael and Labour disagree on many fundemental issues, issues that many of their base votes feel strongly about. If the pro-choice wing of the Labour party mobilised (ie. most of its base) about this, then most of the pro-life in Fine Gael might stir, causing tension between the two parties.
I don't think that this will happen during the election, but it may cause instability if they get into goernment. Don't forget that Labour have promised for a long-time to legislate on the X-case, and much of its membership are strongly pro-choice. Now, Enda Kenny has vetoed that, a decision that many of FG's Catholic, pro-life base will hold dear. If you think that this won't cause some trouble for the two parties then you are kidding yourself. The emotions on both sides are too fraught for anything else to happen. This of course does not mean that the FG/Lab alliance will not survive this, but it will be an issue for the next government, if it is FG/Lab.

EDIT: Don't forget, we sometimes actually discuss things in this forum, rather then just pettily snipe at each other. I don't point at everything Gandalf or Ballooba say, and start asking them why Enda told them to say that. Please show me the same curtesy. I am a person and I have my own opinions.

mike65

gandalf wrote:

How many votes did he get in the last election Mike?

I'm not suggesting he has a chance of geting elected (that said he got over 10,000 Leinster votes in the 2004 EU elections!) - just causing trouble, which he likes. I imagine he'd see a FG/Lab/Green coalition as his moral enemy.

Mike.

ballooba

The_Minister wrote:

I don't think that this will happen during the election, but it may cause instability if they get into goernment.

I have no doubt that the PDs differ with FF on a lot of key issues also. The difference is that the PDs don't have the weight to put behind their views and instead just suck it up for the sake of being in power and getting whatever scraps they're thrown.

Dave!

The pro-choice lobby haven't been at all vocal so far, whereas just about everybody else in the country has! I heard on the radio this morning, the students of Loreto College in Crumlin threatening to protest outside Leinster House if they're not given a new sports hall! As was mentioned, not much point in talking about abortion when there's grannies dying on trollies (and the nurses are outside with placards!!!)

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

I have no doubt that the PDs differ with FF on a lot of key issues also. The difference is that the PDs don't have the weight to put behind their views and instead just suck it up for the sake of being in power and getting whatever scraps they're thrown.

LOL. I love how sour you get when you can't answer something.
The PDs have had a very large impact on government policy over the last ten years. In fact, if you think back to before election fever hit, every now and then some representative of Fine Gael or Labour would complain that a party as small as the PDs should not have such a big influence on policy. You'll see that view given several times on these very boards. The PDs have had a very large influence on government policy over the last ten years, something which both Fine Gael and Labour repeatedly complained about, until the election began to loom.
It's true that the PDs don't get everything that they want (Cafe Bars), but they get most.


EDIT: @ DaveMcG: The pro-choice lobby are very powerful within the Labour party.

ballooba

I don't have a strong opinion either way on abortion. I wouldn't particularly like to live next to one though (abortion clinic).

The_Minister wrote:

LOL. I love how sour you get when you can't answer something.

I can't see anything wrong with that answer. Of course Fine Gael and Labour have different views on certain issues. Indeed within the two parties I am sure there would be conflicting views on certain issues. Otherwise the two parties should merge and form a cult.

The_Minister wrote:

The PDs have had a very large impact on government policy over the last ten years.

The PD reaction to the Bertigate incident showed people just how impotent the PDs are. Of course the PDs can influence policy when FF let them, as can independents if they are required to form government.

Bateman

At a time when Irish women (and teenagers) can freely travel to England cheaply and quietly, I would have to agree with those who say abortion is a total and utter non-issue. Maybe it will be entertaining to FF/PD supporters to see an FG and a Labour representative squirm on Q&A on this issue, should it arise (and I don't think it will), but as for being a pact-breaker, or a serious voter-issue; not a chance.

brianthebard

Anyone watching the six one? I think Kenny dealt with the question of FG and Labour's disagreement on stamp duty quite well. He's appearing more and more confident every time he appears on tv. Although I'm a bit worried with his speaking in the third person!

SeanW

The_Minister wrote:

(Cafe Bars)

Which is probably the only good thing the PDs ever came up with. If it had been FG (who dont seem to be held to ransom by special interests the way FF is) we might be sipping beer with a light meal right now in one such "Cafe Bar."

Dirk Gently

Bateman wrote:

but as for being a pact-breaker, or a serious voter-issue; not a chance.

I don't think so either. Not as much as an issue like stamp duty which everyone seems to be making an election issue out of. Do our current Minister for Finance and our current taniste agree on this issue?

Should another high profile abortion case come up during the life time of next government it will cause problems for FG's Christian right and Labours pro choice members but in fairness it will be a tough time for any coalition to deal with. I doubt it will be an actual "election issue" having any impact on who people vote for. Sure the Christians will vote FG and the pro choice will vote Labour, but in reality neither them nor anyone else will be volunteering to act on it when in government unless left with no other alternative. I think Johnny arson hit the nail on the head when he asked..."Slow day in PD HQ Minister?"

mike65

Well done Minister clicky here for potential abortion case discussion

Mike.