Chthonic (Taiwanese Black Metal)

Karl Hungus

Have to say, I really enjoy these guys. The whole Black Metal scene had gone up it's own arse really, with most of the luminaries either breaking up, or simply not wanting anything to do with the genre any more, leaving a load of Darkthrone clones behind. So in that sense, Chthonic are an incredible breath of fresh air, in that there's no reek of the idealogical elitism over what Black Metal should be from them that plagues a lot of the genre.

Anyway, enjoy. Or not. It's up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06hBoOBZLrY

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, I've always said black metal just isn't black metal unless it's taiwanese black metal.

Karl Hungus

Mordeth wrote:

well, I've always said black metal just isn't black metal unless it's taiwanese black metal.

I've never heard you say that! Are you saying that the entire Black Metal scene in scandinavia, from Bathory, Mayhem, Emperor to Dimmu Borgir, Old Man's Child and so forth, just weren't black metal!? So essentially, the genre didn't exist untill Chthonic? :eek:

You're a phony!

gizmo

Oh, that was pretty friggin' cool. Wouldn't consider myself a fan of the general by any means but really liked that. Ta Karl

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

Wouldn't consider myself a fan of the general by any means.

Who's the General?

gizmo

Tiredness....

That should have been genre.

John

He was a Dublin crime boss.

That really wasn't my cup of tea, I prefer my black metal to be a bit harsher.

Karl Hungus

John wrote:

I prefer my black metal to be a bit harsher.

Yeah, Chthonic are definetly more from the Dimmu Borgir side of the camp, what with the keyboards and all...

Here's Immortal so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6kQu2MvUIY

And how about some Dissection?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX6wuOYkVLI

gizmo

Nonono. Back to the other side of said camp please.

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

Nonono. Back to the other side of said camp please.

Ok, here's the new Dimmu video so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVfWuHSADpQ

Hmm, Emperor are neither here nor there, but I think they deserve a mention...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nNNemIwuAA

It wasn't me!

I like both sides, personally. Cthonic are cool, but there's something a little more authentic to my mind about the meaner side of black metal. Then again, I do love Anorexia Nervosa, and they're chock-full of keyboards and such.

Karl Hungus

It wasn't me! wrote:

there's something a little more authentic to my mind about the meaner side of black metal.

Yeah, there's less of the pomposity on display, like with Dimmu...

But there's more than just two sides I think, there's plenty of bands that don't fit into the mould, like Enslaved for example, who sound like Bathory jamming with King Crimson. Definetly one of the best Black Metal bands still around.

It wasn't me!

Aye, much love for Enslaved.

John

Agreed, each aspect of modern black metal has its ups and downs (some more down than others) but I think It Wasn't Me hit the nail on the head with the authenticity comment. Even comparing a band over the course of its career such as Mayhem where their early albums and recordings were beyond all doubt some of the most ferocious and inspiring black metal ever grace this earth (I originally wrote "grave this earth" ) but their later albums have gotten progressively cringe worthier. Although that being said I'm interested in hearing the latest one as Attila is back at the microphone.

Karl Hungus

John wrote:

Agreed, each aspect of modern black metal has its ups and downs (some more down than others) but I think It Wasn't Me hit the nail on the head with the authenticity comment. Even comparing a band over the course of its career such as Mayhem where their early albums and recordings were beyond all doubt some of the most ferocious and inspiring black metal ever grace this earth (I originally wrote "grave this earth" ) but their later albums have gotten progressively cringe worthier. Although that being said I'm interested in hearing the latest one as Attila is back at the microphone.

I think that as far as authenticity goes, a lot of bands are guilty of very shallow posturing in this reguard, and the elitism, many bands proclaiming their particular brand of Black Metal is the 'True' way, and that those other bands are poseurs. Hence a lot of the BM scene seems to be a slagging match over who is and isn't 'True' and interviews consist of mocking those bands who stray from the archetype.

In essense, bands are just pretaining to authenticity. So I find a band like Dimmu Borgir, who just get on with it and do their own thing, far more authentic than a band who's more concerned about showing the right attitude than making music.

Mayhem's new one I will definetly like to hear, as Attila is one hell of a vocalist.

Speaking of Attila though, what did you make of Aborym?

John

Never even heard of Aborym. Links?

And as for all that elitism and true black metal nonsense, I try to avoid interviews with black metal musicians as they always seem to come as such tits. Just interested in the music.

Oh and by the way, I finally got around to listening to Ulver after you recommending them to me for about two years. Great stuff, going to be buying a lot more of their music.

Karl Hungus

John wrote:

Never even heard of Aborym. Links?

Try here: http://web.tiscali.it/aborym/

John wrote:

And as for all that elitism and true black metal nonsense, I try to avoid interviews with black metal musicians as they always seem to come as such tits. Just interested in the music.

Well, I was rather long-winded with my point there, so basically, all I was saying is that a lot of the time, the more "Authentic" bands can be the most pretentious.

Anyway, it can be hard to get away from the elitism and nonsense, as it pervades a lot of message boards and such.

John wrote:

Oh and by the way, I finally got around to listening to Ulver after you recommending them to me for about two years. Great stuff, going to be buying a lot more of their music.

Ah, finally!

Glad you liked them, out of curiosity, what was the first thing you heard of theirs?

Undergod

I've only gotten into black metal quite recently, and I'm lovin Chthonic.

A lot of the elitism and 'tr00' stuff is rubbish in my opinion, it does nothing to help the scene at all.

John

Cheers for the link. I'll check that out when this CD is over (Current 93 who Attila sang with last week, apparently they're his favourite band).

As regards authentic, I didn't mean the word as in authentic or tr00 black metal but more along the lines that the music has got a feeling to it that's hard to describe. Whatever the zing is that separates Darkthrone from Cradle of Filth, nothing at all to do with scenes, attitudes but purely the ferocity with which the music is flayed, er, played.

Karl Hungus wrote:

Glad you liked them, out of curiosity, what was the first thing you heard of theirs?

Lyckantropen Themes was the first one which I absolutely love. It reminds me of Coil's original soundtrack for Clive Barker's Hellraiser which was never used (but released by Coil later obviously). I haven't bought anything else but I've heard some of the older black metal stuff which is incredible. I think next on my list is the William Blake double album as I'm currently wading my way through all 1000 pages of The Complete Poetry of William Blake.

Infection_

Instrumentally, they're good. Need to work on vocals though.

Pugsley

Been listening to Chthonic for a while, superb stuff, was very happy to see their playing Wacken this year, and downright irritated that I probably cant go :(

Ive got 2 of their albums, 9th Empyrean and Shanling, both really solid albums and worth a look. Love the backround to the band, a great premise for a band of this style imo, pretty good read off their website (their english website is pretty damn good), cool that their masks/facepaints actually mean something too.

Undergod

Pugsley wrote:

their masks/facepaints actually mean something too.

That's kinda interesting, where'd you hear that?

gizmo

John wrote:

I prefer my black metal to be a bit harsher.

I'd be the opposite in fact. First Black Metal song I heard was Dimmu Borgir - Progenies Of The Great Apocalypse and I loved it, especially that bit around 2:25 when Mr. Vortrex does the vocal bit. That big operatic metal sound just really appealed to me, unlike the likes of that Immortal song which I would regard as simply noise.

Any recommendations so?

It wasn't me!

Perhaps try:

Emperor: - In The Nightside's Eclipse
- Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire and Demise

Arcturus: - La Masquerade Infernale
- The Sham Mirrors

That should be enough for now. La Masquerade Infernale isn't really black metal, but it's certainly a cracking slice of... something.

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

I'd be the opposite in fact. First Black Metal song I heard was Dimmu Borgir - Progenies Of The Great Apocalypse and I loved it, especially that bit around 2:25 when Mr. Vortrex does the vocal bit. That big operatic metal sound just really appealed to me, unlike the likes of that Immortal song which I would regard as simply noise.

Any recommendations so?

I think if you like Mr. Vortex's vocals, then by all means, check out Arcturus as fast as you possibly can. He's now the full time vocalist with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QW5ZDhLM8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEyy0tjGu9M

gizmo

Those Arcturus songs aren't too bad alright, the drums really annoy me though. I'm assuming those blast beats are a trademark of most black metal though?

It wasn't me!

When you have a drummer like Hellhammer, why the fcuk not?!

Morf

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think if you like Mr. Vortex's vocals, then by all means, check out Arcturus as fast as you possibly can. He's now the full time vocalist with them.

i'm not a big fan of his vox . . garm or vintersorg for me

Karl Hungus

Morf wrote:

i'm not a big fan of his vox . . garm or vintersorg for me

Very few people can come close to Garm, the man had some incredible range.

Desecrator666

The keyboards sound terrible aswell as the vocals.
I was really looking forward to hearing this band and now i wish i hadn't, hehe.
Gallhammer from Japan are the way to go folks and their a hell of a lot better looking.

Pugsley

Undergod wrote:

That's kinda interesting, where'd you hear that?

On the Chthonic website (http://www.chthonic.org/en/) in their biography it mentions their face paints are based on the 'Eight generals' from Taiwanese folklore.

Undergod

Cool. Beijing Opera has shown us that Chinese culture knows how to do cool make-up.

Also, it's cool how they're trying to ressurect native Taiwanese culture and stuff.

Karl Hungus

Desecrator666 wrote:

The keyboards sound terrible aswell as the vocals.
I was really looking forward to hearing this band and now i wish i hadn't, hehe.
Gallhammer from Japan are the way to go folks and their a hell of a lot better looking.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the vocals or the keyboards...

Gallhammer are pretty good too, but they're doing a whole different thing to Chthonic, it's more a lo-fi oldschool kinda thing. Oh and I don't see what them being 'Better looking' has to do with anything at all.

Although, as we're broaching the subject of Japanese Black Metal, although they're pretty removed from the genre these days, going off in more experimental ways like Arcturus have, mention must be given to the legendary Sigh.

It wasn't me!

Sigh are indeed worth a mention.

Pyr0

The main thing that puts me off black metal, well early black metal is the album ssounding like it was recorded in a tin can, take for instance Wrath of the tyrant from our beloved Emperor ! Then compare that with say XI Equilibrium or Prometheus it's a huge difference, the latter two more enjoyable to listen to imo.

Have to get my hands on some more Immortal, I've got Damned in Black which is a decent album, any other recomendations ?

Karl Hungus

Pyr0 wrote:

The main thing that puts me off black metal, well early black metal is the album ssounding like it was recorded in a tin can, take for instance Wrath of the tyrant from our beloved Emperor ! Then compare that with say XI Equilibrium or Prometheus it's a huge difference, the latter two more enjoyable to listen to imo.

In fairness though, Wrath Of The Tyrant was just a demo, even comparing it to In The Nightside Eclipse, there's a fair difference in production.

Pyr0 wrote:

Have to get my hands on some more Immortal, I've got Damned in Black which is a decent album, any other recomendations ?

Damned In Black is probably one of their worst.

Their absolute masterpiece, I have to say, is At The Heart Of Winter. Their final album, Sons Of Northern Darkness is also phenominal.

As far as Immortal go, I think those 2 albums are really the only must-haves. It's them at the very top of their game, their most epic work, marked by the big 8 minute + songs on offer. Most of their other albums are more about short blasts of brutality, Blizzard Beasts having many songs that are less than 3 minutes long, and these albums just don't have the same kind of epic sound, which is what Immortal are best at.

Pyr0

I suppose you have a point there karl ! There goes my example out the window !!

John

But Pyr0, you're right about some BM albums. There seems to be a trend now to actively degrade the sound on new recordings as that's the only "true" way to record black metal :rolleyes:

Case in point is Striborg from Tasmania. His albums are so roughly recorded and digitally compressed that they are impossible to listen to. Not in an extreme "it sounds so sick!" way but in a just plain annoying way. Too much effort to build up an image and not enough effort at writing decent music and building up the atmosphere properly.

Prezatch

Apart from enslaved, I quite like Borknagar's stuff. They have nice progressive elements in their music and the vocals work great with the cool keyboard sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDigvukQq8Y