Shop assistants in modern Ireland - Discuss.

giddyup

Watching this I thought, me, Harry Enfield, simpatico. A great bit of observation for what I thought was an exclusively Irish phenomenon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8uApz-rQ8E

Wertz

Two threads now on the go about Enfield/Whitehouse show and neither mention the U2 sketch.

On topic, I broke my balls laughing at this last friday...the situation also struck me as exclusively Irish but the UK has a lot more E. Europeans working there than we do and I can only assume that they do the same things over there.

humbert

Order the coffee in English then start speaking to your friends in Irish. That'll learn them!!

giddyup

humbert wrote:

Order the coffee in English then start speaking to your friends in Irish. That'll learn them!!

That's a genius idea. I've been avoiding our canteen coffee bar and sandwich bar for fear of the withering gaze followed by incomprehensible critique.

Off topic - On the U2 sketch - thought it was one of a few weak moments on the show but not bad on the whole.

Wertz

giddyup wrote:

Off topic - On the U2 sketch - thought it was one of a few weak moments on the show but not bad on the whole.

I think it was the lameness of the accents that swung it for me....and IIRC the punchline wasn't bad.

On topic; I think this is a little different to the Irish experience; I mean over here they just scowl at you as you hand over your hard earned.

shane86

Cant watch youtube in work but I saw it. Sort of related but is it just me or do female shop assistants never put things in a bag for you if you buy a bag whereas most male servers do? Back when they were free everything got packed for you. Nowadays you have to juggle your change with loading the bag.

Jaysus what a pointless rant but anyway......

Hagar

I went back to Ireland two weeks ago for the first time in over two years and I hate to say this but I longed to be back in France where I could understand what the people around me were saying in the shops.

Where are all the Irish people who used to do those jobs?
Are they unemployed or have they all found employment in Eastern Europe?

brianthebard

Lolz tesco exchange programme.

humbert

The standard of shop assistant conversation must be better in France! Throw them off guard with a dzień dobry and a smile then continue in English as though you could just as easily have continued in polish.

Hagar

It is. They smile pleasantly and say hello when you enter the shop and say goodbye as you leave even if you bought nothing. It's a pleasure to shop here. Nobody has grunted "next" to me here as they chewed gum and plonked my change on the counter instead of handing it to me.

humbert

Actually I noticed that myself, it takes a bit of getting used to. In Ireland if the shop keeper talks to you it's usually to let you know he's got his eye on you, or to encourage you to buy something or leave.

simu

Hagar wrote:

It is. They smile pleasantly and say hello when you enter the shop and say goodbye as you leave even if you bought nothing. It's a pleasure to shop here. Nobody has grunted "next" to me here as they chewed gum and plonked my change on the counter instead of handing it to me.

Aye. Shop service is really really good in France. What I hate about some shops in Ireland is how unwilling many of the shop-assistants are to sell things - you ask them a question and they seem reluctant to give you any more information thus putting you off buying.

brianthebard

Speaking from experience working in Dunnes and other shops, we are only grunting and ignorant to customers who treat us as lesser people because we work in the service industry. Your gold card does not mean you are better than me!

Hagar

brianthebard wrote:

Speaking from experience working in Dunnes and other shops, we are only grunting and ignorant to customers who treat us as lesser people because we work in the service industry. Your gold card does not mean you are better than me!

That's a shabby excuse for not wanting or trying to do your job properly. Do you treat all your customers badly because you have low self-esteem because you work in the service industry? I have no issues with anybody who serves me in a shop or cafe or retaurant nor do I have a "gold card". What a bitter thing to say. If you don't want to deal with the public get another job and let someone who is interested in a career in the industry have a crack at it.

Explain to me just how you decide you have been treated as a "lesser" person if a customer just approaches you with their purchases and pays the amount asked?

Hagar

Hagar wrote:

Explain to me just how you decide you have been treated as a "lesser" person if a customer just approaches you with their purchases and pays the amount asked?

Oh, if only that were the half of it. What you don't understand is that theres a lot more to it.

You have the customers who;
Despite being wrong and not a clue what they are talking about, tell you how to do your job
Show no common sense whatsoever when ordering.. anything.
Expect you to know everything about.. well .. everything. Even if it's has nothing to do with you. And despite you telling them this, they still expect it.

@ The video, and back on topic.

My girlfriend has a problem understanding people with foreign accents (mostly polish accents) and the poor girl always looks to me to translate for her. The one thing I dislike though is when they talk to one another in their native language. It's totally disrespectful. And I'm not referring to any one group, its all non-nationals.

brianthebard

Hagar: Most people who I had to serve at the till treat the staff like crap. I don't have low self esteem, I'm just not happy that people treat others like crap when they are clearly doing their best to help them. I always work hard and treat customers with the respect they deserve. That respect is on a scale though. I had a job to pay for college, I've since left. Don't tell me I'm taking other peoples jobs, ffs! You think people like being in the service industry?? Get real, not in this country, not even the foreign nationals I worked with. We did it cause its a job that pays, I don't owe the customer anything. I have no problem with what you outlined in the second paragraph and would treat those customers well.

humbert

When I worked in tescos people often treated you like you were retarded or a slave but I was polite and helpful because that's what I was being payed to do. How people regard me because I'm wearing a tescos uniform doesn't concern me.

Hagar

brianthebard wrote:

We did it cause its a job that pays, I don't owe the customer anything.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you do, just the same as I owe the people I deal with. Some of them are as awkward as a bag of hammers but they are still customers, they still bring their business to me and put food on my table. I can't afford to forget that and I don't think other people dealing with customers should either.

I don't believe that "most" people you serve are worthy of being treated badly. More than 50% of customers are bad? No, sorry I don't buy that. Yes, there are people who are difficult to deal with but that does not justify badly treating the rest of the ordinary customers just cause you get pissed off by another customer.

I wasn't implying that you were taking anyone's job just that you were doing a job you didn't want to do and that somebody else might be glad to do it.

Please understand this is not a personal attack on yourself just on the mind-set that seems to pervade the whole retail industry in Ireland.

brianthebard

I already said that I do my job right and treat people who deserve to be treated well with respect. I thought it was clear that if I'm dealing with an annoying awkward customer who doesnt respect me I don't treat them with respect-why would I? And yes most people treat others in the service industry as if they are lesser people who are of lower intellect just because of the job they have. I realise its not an attack on me, but its something that gets my goat up, people don't realise how much shite people in the service industry have to deal with. That's why you don't see many Irish people in the jobs any more, they suck ass.

Hagar

Hagar wrote:

Please understand this is not a personal attack on yourself just on the mind-set that seems to pervade the whole retail industry in Ireland.

Have you ever actually worked in the retail industry?

I have to admit though, that I am so disheartened when I go to a shop and the people serving you treat you like crap. Myself and the girlfriend were in a nameless shop in Galway. We wanted to get an icecream cone. There was nobody at the till. Suddenly this grim angry faced eastern european woman pushes past me (actually pushes.. forcefully), goes behind the till in a huff and very angrily asks, "what?"

I had half a mind to tell her, in no certain words, that she can shove the cone where the sun doesn't shine, that I would like to see a manager and that I will be taking my business elsewhere. I didn't though, as the cone tasted lovely and lulled my temper .

Crucifix

When I worked as a shop assistant I was always courteous. There's more satisfaction in being nice to a prick than being a prick to them.
As for the video, meh. I was waiting for a punchline.

HammerHeadGym

brianthebard wrote:

...Your gold card does not mean you are better than me!

Tell it on the mountain brother. I hate those 'people'

<rant> You work for a living too ,you asshole. Just cause I'm in work while your shopping does not give you the right to look down your nose at me. It's a credit card, there nothing special. The banks give em away like calanders. </rant>

themole

The customer does deserve a certain level of respect, but so does the shop assistant.

I used to work in supervalu stacking shelves while i was doing my degree in NUIG. The amount of people who didn't have a clue, yet thought they knew better than those of us who worked there was unreal. Just two stories which come to mind.

On christmas eve a guy asks me if there are any selection boxes left, i say we ran out of them 2 hours ago. He ask are there any in the stock room , i say no. I couldn't convince him that there weren't any, and i knew there weren't. I don't know why he would think we would just have random stock left in the stock room and not put on the shelves. He kept asking me to look in the stock room, so finally to appease him i went into the stockroom and hat a chat with one of the lads for about 5 mins, then came back out and once again told the guy we didn't have any selection boxes, which he finally accepted.

On another occasion i was working in the bakery. Which was part of the same counter for the hot food. An old woman comes up to me with a bag of hot ribs and asks me to check the price. I said i didn't know about the hot food prices and that she should ask the guy next to me, who was the hot food guy, and it turns out was the one who gave her the bag in the first place. The hot food guy was itialian. The old woman says "what would he know he's only a foreigner", so i just handed the bag to the italian guy and got asked him to check the price, which he did and said it was correct. I gave it back to the old lady, who didn't seem too impressed. Later on i found the same bag thrown on a shelf somewhere else in the supermarket.

Nobody likes to treated like they are somehow a lesser person. You try to deal with customers as politely as possible, but i would feel in no way obliged to bendover backwards just to let someone feel they are in the right when they are quiet clearly not. Just my 2 cents.

The customer is not always right, but in the same vein neither is the shop assistant.

Hagar

Deleted User wrote:

Have you ever actually worked in the retail industry?

No, I haven't so I don't have a true picture of what it's like on that side of the counter. I only know what I see from my side and it's generally poor. I suppose dealing with ignorant people has a cumulative effect. You can be nice the first few times but after a while you become conditioned and start treating everyone the same even if it's not justified. Human nature I suppose.

I'm nice to all my customers on a daily basis to their faces. There are one or two of them who I have to bite my tongue with and keep smiling but I have the luxury of being able to blow off steam in private when I leave them. I suppose that might not be so easy to do in a retail environment.

McSandwich

And I'm not referring to any one group, its all non-nationals.

Ghost Train

haven't come across this too much, there is a petrol station i avoid because of what i perceived as bad (unfriendly/snide) attitude of cashiers

Dyr

I stumbled across a great way to fight "lets speak fordin in front of the local sap who's paying our wages" maliase just say "sorry?" like you thought they were talking to you. ham up the bewilderment and force them to admit that they were actually conversing in their own lingo to their compadre and not addressing you.

Though i'll never forget getting a sambo in one shop that had some chinaman serving who was wearing a big badge that read "i HATE this f****ng city" i told him i hated it too...far too many gooks for my liking. Made sure his boss heard it and all

DublinWriter

brianthebard wrote:

Speaking from experience working in Dunnes and other shops, we are only grunting and ignorant to customers who treat us as lesser people because we work in the service industry. Your gold card does not mean you are better than me!

How about a Platinum one?!

Seriously, I have come to the conclusion that people who work in shops here only act that way because Irish consumers, on the whole, are foul in their attitute.

About six months ago I saw some crazed loon shout down some poor Asian worker in Maplin's Blanchardstown, and the other day I witnessed some crazed idiot rant and rave about the choclate bars not being individually priced in Texaco on the Malahide Road, then get into his car and physically fired, not threw, the bars he purchased at his kid on the back seat.

In a certain Building Society in Raheny a few weeks back, I witnessed a middle-age female customer do the whole bitch from hell routine over what seemed like a trivial matter - I AM CLOSING MY ACCOUNT! I WANT TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER NOW! etc etc

From my personal observations the customers who tend to be really foul are always middle-class and well spoken.

brianthebard

DublinWriter wrote:

How about a Platinum one?!

Seriously, I have come to the conclusion that people who work in shops here only act that way because Irish consumers, on the whole, are foul in their attitute.

About six months ago I saw some crazed loon shout down some poor Asian worker in Maplin's Blanchardstown, and the other day I witnessed some crazed idiot rant and rave about the choclate bars not being individually priced in Texaco on the Malahide Road, then get into his car and physically fired, not threw, the bars he purchased at his kid on the back seat.

In a certain Building Society in Raheny a few weeks back, I witnessed a middle-age female customer do the whole bitch from hell routine over what seemed like a trivial matter - I AM CLOSING MY ACCOUNT! I WANT TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER NOW! etc etc

From my personal observations the customers who tend to be really foul are always middle-class and well spoken.

You've hit the nail on the head so many times its got a migrane man. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Its also very true that the worst customers are middle class folks who won't give you the time of day. The working class customers would almost always been easy to deal with and mannerly. Like I said people seem to think their gold card entitles them to my slavery, they need to be reminded that the product on sale is not the person they are abusing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

why in the hell shouldn't people converse in their native language? if it bothers you that much that you don't know what they are saying, ask them what language they speak... do a few courses, and then chat one of the prettier ones up.

also, I used to work in retail.. customers are bastards. all of them, even the nice ones. Bastards.

The one thing I dislike though is when they talk to one another in their native language. It's totally disrespectful. And I'm not referring to any one group, its all non-nationals.

It's natural to do that, and Irish and British people are some of the worst offenders at doing it abroad. I've worked in France and Spain and almost all the Irish and Brits used to speak English to each other 100% of the time. I at least tried not to do it in front of customers but other people saw nothing wrong with it, thinking if they weren't talking about anyone or being rude, then where was the problem? Don't act like the Polish or whoever are the only ones to do this, it happens all over. Have you ever been in that situation? It feels REALLY strange to stand there speaking Spanish to your Irish mates. You try to do it out of courtesy to others but it's really unnatural.

bikini

In my experiance of working in a shop i found no point of being rude back to customers. For thoses who seem to be wearing a scowl it is better to smile and keep quiet as they are searching for something to give out about. The best way to deal with a complete moran is to be so so so nice, it f***ing kills them! What they really want is you to snap so they can shift their misery on some poor unfortunate trying to earn a bit of dosh!

beanyb

The problem I have isnt that they speak a different language to their friends, though it does make you feel slightly more uncomfortable than it would if you could understand them. It's the fact that they carry out a full blown conversation when they are supposed to be serving a customer. It's just plain rude, even in English.

Having said that, I worked in a supermarket for a few years part time and the majority of customers do treat staff like crap. It gets increasingly difficult to be friendly when you're consistently being treated like you're the dirt on their shoe.

It's the fact that they carry out a full blown conversation when they are supposed to be serving a customer. It's just plain rude, even in English.

That's not just foreign workers though. Back home in the North, and often down here as well, the locals are the worst at doing that. Really annoys me!

the_syco

Deleted User wrote:

The one thing I dislike though is when they talk to one another in their native language. It's totally disrespectful. And I'm not referring to any one group, its all non-nationals.

Like you'd do when you're on holidays in a foreign country? FFS. Piss off back to Meath:p

Me? Don't really get treated badly. If I am, I don't go back, or if its a regular shop, I avoid that cashier. I've been a shelf stacker, and know that bas*ards are on both sides of the till.

On a bad day in the cinema, I prefered the scumbags. At least we knew they'd try something dodgy. You'd still catch the "middle class" f*cks up to no good. And I'd throw all of them out.

Oh, and as for the story about the selection boxes at xmas eve: half the time that I've asked for them to check the back, there has been some there.

Thrill

Mordeth wrote:

also, I used to work in retail.. customers are bastards. all of them, even the nice ones. Bastards.

Having worked behind a counter, I whole heartedly agree. Although i don't
know about the nice one's. I've never seen one of those.

brianthebard

Astrid Worried Radial wrote:

It's natural to do that, and Irish and British people are some of the worst offenders at doing it abroad. I've worked in France and Spain and almost all the Irish and Brits used to speak English to each other 100% of the time. I at least tried not to do it in front of customers but other people saw nothing wrong with it, thinking if they weren't talking about anyone or being rude, then where was the problem? Don't act like the Polish or whoever are the only ones to do this, it happens all over. Have you ever been in that situation? It feels REALLY strange to stand there speaking Spanish to your Irish mates. You try to do it out of courtesy to others but it's really unnatural.

Story about a friend of mine who's lithuanian. We were working in the store room with a polish lad and the two were conversing in polish. I thought nothing of it, but in walked the manager and her cousin who worked there. The manager gave out to my friend cause she couldn't understand him and said he might be insulting her or something. To which he replied " If I wanted to say something to you xxxx, I'd say it to your face!". What a great man.

WindSock

I worked in various retail outlets myself in the past, the job wouldn't be all that bad if it weren't for the feckin customers.
Now I am one of those customers, standing in the queue and mentally condemning the assistant for not hurrying the fuçk up, but it's mostly the person in front of me getting served that all my mind arrows pierce.
But I usually keep it in my head, I will be polite when I reach the counter, only showing faint signs of impatience if I am in a hurry.

InFront

In fairness, it's a completely unnatural thing to speak in English with someone who speaks your first language. The only time I can recall where it was unacceptable was an example I only heard about, in a hospital between two med students, which upset the patient as you can imagine.

But as for getting annoyed with a shop assistant over it... why? It's just paranoia or over sensitivity. Number one it's none of your business what they're discussing, number two it's probably just a story about getting locked out of the house! I've seen people get annoyed about this sort of thing on public transport too, it's a bit over the top.

As regards customer service, I worked in an electrical store for two summers and some weekends, I would definitely agree with deflating customers' egos with kindness. Nothing is more humbling than guilt.

Kintarō Hattori

Get off your flucking high horses you pack of whinging c'nuts. Are you that shallow, self obsessed and paranoid that you need to hear two people speaking to each other in a language that you understand? They are speaking to each other and not to you. As long as your being served and served well I don't see what the problem is. Let them have their conversation. It just might not be about you!

I have no problem with people speaking to each other in a foreign language while they are serving me. As long as I get what I need and they are pleasant about it, I don't give two flying f'nucks. Why should you? Really, why does it bother you?

As long as they aren't rude or unpleasant it really shouldn't matter.

BlitzKrieg

thinking back today to all the shops i was in just today...the only one that was even slightly miffed with was the assitent in maplins who simply didnt give good directions to a product i was looking for (he gestured to one end of the store and left), every other shop I have been into today I've recieved the customer service I expect, and in one case more.

On the topic of people speaking a different language when at work, as long as its not when they are serving you and they can do their job I dont have any complaint, and I have no right to complain as me and another irish worker did it in starbucks in the UK with very basic irish, and a platheau of irish swearwords (thank you gary bannister for the irish swear word dictionay) when we were having a bad morning. Never directed at the customer, except in 2-3 really really bad cases.

Honestly your scraping the bottom of the barrel when your problem is shop assistents.

if I'm dealing with an annoying awkward customer who doesnt respect me I don't treat them with respect-why would I?

Because it's your job.

NotMe

eo980 wrote:

Get off your flucking high horses you pack of whinging c'nuts. Are you that shallow, self obsessed and paranoid that you need to hear two people speaking to each other in a language that you understand? They are speaking to each other and not to you. As long as your being served and served well I don't see what the problem is. Let them have their conversation. It just might not be about you!

I have no problem with people speaking to each other in a foreign language while they are serving me. As long as I get what I need and they are pleasant about it, I don't give two flying f'nucks. Why should you? Really, why does it bother you?

As long as they aren't rude or unpleasant it really shouldn't matter.

My thoughts exactly.

giddyup

eo980 wrote:

As long as they aren't rude or unpleasant it really shouldn't matter.

Taking it right back to the original post this is what I was trying to highlight. In chatting away among themselves they generally are being rude and unpleasant and providing the very minimum level of service possible. I'd feel the same way if they were talking English. At the moment in Ireland it's usually an e. european language.

I've worked in Superquinn (£1.40 an hour;) ), Texaco, Centra and 2 Spars in my time albeit a few years ago now and my philosophy remains (on both sides of the counter) do unto others etc. etc. So I'll always start an encounter trying to be pleasant but if it's anything less than a neutral response I'm sometimes not bothered, often despairing and on occasion angry.

Case in point: in Next 2 weeks ago, about 5 punters working but when I had a few bits to buy (and after standing at the till for a few minutes) they all seemed to be faffing about "in the back" so I went to the till in the home section where manager type (the only person on the shop floor) was on the phone. She rolls her eyes as I approach, doesn't hang up and tells me someone in mens will help me. I tell her there is nobody there. She then proceeds to give me the 'you are clearly insane' look and tells me that of course there is someone there. I'm starting to see the red mist now. I tell her again there is nobody there and she huffs and puffs and walks around to see that there is indeed nobody there. Instead of then serving me she starts wondering about where they are and looking around and telling me they should be there etc. She still has no intention of serving me so I chucked the clothes on the nearest shelf and told her 'good luck'. I'm not trying to change her behaviour by doing this, it's just for my own sanity and I can't bear to hand money over to people who treat me like a muppet.

Bottom line - it'd be nice if people were a bit more pleasant to each other in their daily encounters.

Antigone05

i work and run a small shop which generaly sell school books.
So when that time of year comes and the que of 2000 people a day come you have to keep a level head.
I like dealing with customers..as alot are assholes and alot are nice i treat each the same with the same level of help.

ive been called a bastard..a lying so-in-so and so forth..a bookshop remember.

If you feel mistreated and that all customers look down on you then you better change job.

its the people behind tills that grow to develop itchy trigger fingers.

brianthebard

Deleted User wrote:

Because it's your job.

Its fucking not.

You're paid to be courteous and provide the service, regardless of how they behave. Obviously aside from them going proper mental and freaking out.

brianthebard

Deleted User wrote:

You're paid to be courteous and provide the service, regardless of how they behave. Obviously aside from them going proper mental and freaking out.

The quote you used said that I don't respect customers who don't respect me. Nowhere in my contract has it ever said that I have to respect customers. I know what I'm paid for and what I'm not, and I'm not paid to take shit from customers.

Kintarō Hattori

giddyup wrote:

Taking it right back to the original post this is what I was trying to highlight. In chatting away among themselves they generally are being rude and unpleasant and providing the very minimum level of service possible. I'd feel the same way if they were talking English. At the moment in Ireland it's usually an e. european language.


Case in point: in Next 2 weeks ago, about 5 punters working but when I had a few bits to buy (and after standing at the till for a few minutes) they all seemed to be faffing about "in the back" so I went to the till in the home section where manager type (the only person on the shop floor) was on the phone. She rolls her eyes as I approach, doesn't hang up and tells me someone in mens will help me. I tell her there is nobody there. She then proceeds to give me the 'you are clearly insane' look and tells me that of course there is someone there. I'm starting to see the red mist now. I tell her again there is nobody there and she huffs and puffs and walks around to see that there is indeed nobody there. Instead of then serving me she starts wondering about where they are and looking around and telling me they should be there etc. She still has no intention of serving me so I chucked the clothes on the nearest shelf and told her 'good luck'. I'm not trying to change her behaviour by doing this, it's just for my own sanity and I can't bear to hand money over to people who treat me like a muppet.

Your first point has absolutely no connection to your second. Two people talking to each other has no relation to the clearly poor service you received with the woman in Next.
I would be quite píssed if I had been you, but if it merely had been two assistants talking among themselves while serving me I would see no reason to complain.

WindSock

I dont like to be served by a couple of shop assistants that are chatting to each other at the same time, whether they are speaking in English or any other language, or even on the phone to a mate, it's rude and unprofessional. The same went when I was working behind the counter. I wouldnt serve someone if they were chatting away on their mobile phone, I'd wait till they hung up.

themole

I personally have no problem with people talking in their native language while at work.

If you are waiting to be served at a counter and two of the assistants are talking to eachother it depends on what they are talking about as to whether or not i get annoyed. If its work related, and one say is asking the other to get some stock etc , then thats ok to me, as you know why you are waiting. They are doing their job. But if they are talking about non work related stuff and as a result i have to wait thats annoying and i think other people find it annoying also.

The problem is if, i ireland, they are not talking English you don't know what they are talking about hence you can't make that call and i for one get annoyed by that.