3 Hand History Scenarios

dvdfan

Ok so this might be a bit of a mumble but ill put it out there. Im trying to make a point but first i need to see reactions to 3 scenarios:

Basically these scenario involves playing with a good tight aggressive player not too tricky and he also thinks your a tight aggressive player. Both players are good positional players too but you havent seen enough hands yet to be 100% sure and vice versa

So your typical game your waiting for AK-AJ pocket Pairs and suited connecters and you get involved in a pot. Now lets take some examples of play ,im the Hero and hes the villain:

For these scenarios we will say its 50c/1

Scenario 1:
Hero Raises to $4 and villain calls with position. Flop comes A72 rainbow and hero bets the pot, villain smooth calls with Top Pair Q kicker. Blank Turn, Hero checks???

If your the villain how would you proceed here giving the info

Scenario 2:

Hero raises preflop to $4 and villain calls with AQ in position.
Flop comes A72 with 2 spades. Hero bets $1.50???

If your the villain how would you proceed here giving the info

Scenario 3:

Villain Raises to $5 with JJ
Flop comes A72 rainbow. Villain checks and hero checks. Blank Turn??

If your the villain how would you proceed here giving the info


Ok so if youd like to answer them 3 questions, there not trick questions or anything i just want an honest response to how youd react and ill give it an hour or two and ill explain where this thread is going but i cant really continue until i have enough of a response so bear with me.

phantom_lord

1. check

2. raise close to pot or something.

3. depends. sometimes bet, sometimes check.

Captain Tom

Hand 1: bet unless you have a good reason not to.

Hand 2: i dont know how to answer this given read.i dont ever see a good aggressive player making this sized bet.vs a bad player i raise for value.

Hand 3: probably depends on history with the player.if i check its to check call.

DeadParrot

Hand one: Bet out 3/4 pot, I'd need some super reads esp. at .5/1 to figure out if im behind. The only thing I'm fearing at the moment is a raise with A7/2. At this level most will bet out again on the turn with a set and there are no obvious draws on board. The flat call more than likely slowed down the hero and the turn check indicates he may well be done with this hand and I don't want to give him a freebie to catch up. Ir Hero C/R's all bets are off and I'll re-evaluate.

Hand Two: Raise to pot. Hero's weak lead stinks and tbh I'd shut down on a spade turn.

Hand 3: A situation I really try to avoid facing if I'm villain. As hero's range is AJ+/PP/suited connectors, I'd be c-betting the flop as this is an ugly hand for you and you just want to scoop it and move on. Although this seems to be betting for info, I'm merely playing the percentages that nearly 70% of the time he folds. As played, I'm leaning towards a check but if I'm honest to myself I'd bet $8.

dvdfan

Scenario 1:
Hero Raises to $4 and villain calls with position. Flop comes A72 rainbow and hero bets the pot, villain smooth calls with Top Pair Q kicker. Blank Turn, Hero checks???

If your the villain how would you proceed here giving the info

I didnt get many responses but ill push on with my ramblings nonetheless. Although Phantom Lord said check the other two said bet here, i think this situations happens alot and when someone raises preflop and then bets the flop we assume its a continuation bet of some sort and we dont get much information from the flop bet but when the hero then checks the turn its more often than not with a hand that wants to slow down as Parrot said and usually a bet here by the villain will take down the hand.

I come across this situation alot and unless the opponent is tricky this is usually a check/fold or a check call with a worse hand.

So this brings me to my first question and what this tread is really about. Im at a table of say 9 people with maybe 2-3 loose players that you want to be in pots with and then another 5 players that are decent-good. If i play my ABC game the 5 good players are only coming along for the ride if theyve got a good hand, theyre not calling re-raises with Top pair Q kicker and generally im only stacking them when its set vs 2 pair, flush vs set, FH vs flush or maybe overcard vs TPTK if im lucky.

So if i want to open things up with the other decent-good players i need to mix things up and get tricky. In the above example lets say the hero has TP jack kicker, i know hes called my pot sized flop bet (this might be 1/2 pot or 2/3 pot as im not always betting same amount on flop) So i want to slow down. I check the turn he bets 1/2 pot and i put him on AK-AQ and i have to make a decision either fold here or check call it down to the river but i feel im beat so i fold.

Now this is usually how i would play it, very standard im not getting involved in a pot where i might be dominated and the pot is building. So in another scenario this time ive AK, i bet the flop and he smooth calls, im worried but i think the 2nd barrell will take it down if hes anything worse than TPTK i bet 1/2 pot and he thinks hes beaten and he folds.

Now the 2 scenario's if played standard leave me losing a small pot and winning a small pot. This is ok as ive only Top Pair and i dont want to be invloved in big pots with Top Pair against a decent-good player.

But what about now if we have a set of 7's here. We play the hand again betting out the flop (anywhere from 2-3 to the pot whatevers standard) we get a smooth call and were loving it but now we want to build a pot, the villain knows our standard line, if we bet here and he has AQ or less hes probably folding but im sure if anyone here posted a hand history saying they checked a set on the turn after being called wouldnt get a favourable response however i feel a bet here is going to force alot of worse hands to fold and the check will say im not that strong and a bet here might win the hand.

So theres very few hands here we are beating that we will get action from maybe 2 pair but unlikely giving the texture of the board or maybe the set of 2's. In this scenario if you check i think your still getting action from 2 pair or lower set if we check the turn as if they check aswell the chance to build the pot for the river is gone so maybe a small bet to look weak from the villain and induce a RR or just a value bet on that turn. You still get to build a pot while disguising the turn and maybe they hadnt anything tried a steal and hit on the river and well get action.

Anyway thats not really been tricky its just putting the opponent on a hand and trying to make him stay in the pot with a worse hand but if i play this the same way if i have a set or 2 pair as i do when i have Top Pair then its making things hard for my observant opponents.

For example I have a set i bet flop, check turn and call the villains Raise and value bet the river and he shows down AT and sees how i played the set. Next time i play the same with 2 pair and he loses again.

Now i get AJ and im possibly dominated but when i check the villain is thinking does he have a set now, 2 pair or what, my bettern pattern is of no use because ive played a variety of good hands like this. He just checks the turn with his AK and checks the river and i get a cheap showdown and now he sees ive played AJ this way. This will allow me to see cheap turns occassionaly and really in a way negate his positional advantage.

Scenario 2:

Hero raises preflop to $4 and villain calls with AQ in position.
Flop comes A72 with 2 spades. Hero bets $1.50???

If your the villain how would you proceed here giving the info

Ok we all hate the min raise and most people here will say raise the fcuk out of him, but i think although min raise is rarley a good thing, if its used to gain an advantage then why not just because everyone hates it. If the min raise gets me a cheap look at the turn or a nice raised pot without my opponent being able to put me on a marginal or strong hand then why shouldnt i use it.

Again ill mix things up, ill do this on flush draw boards with some of my draws and ill do this when i hit a set,2 pair etc and after a few showdowns theyll find it hard to put me on a hand. If they just call my min raise im getting a nice cheap look at the turn with draws sometimes, other times theyll re-raise my $1.50 to $6 and ive built a pot with a set. Ill then also sometimes 4bet with my strong draws like Straight Flush or Nut Flush and Top Pair and also 4bet with my set. Again a big point here is im actually hijacking position from the villain because usually the villain is relying on my bettern pattern to see where he is in the hand but because of the wide variety of hands i play this way, im in control.

Again i would play against a donk completely different but if i come across someone and i see there stats and see what hands theyre showing down ive a pretty good chance theyre paying attention to me and ill single out these people with the intention of stealing position and building pots with strong hands, getting cheap cards with draws and winning alot of pots with the worst hands because they dont want to get involved in mind games.

So my long ramblings have came to and end and although this made sense in my head it may be a complete load of nonsense. Maybe this is standard from alot of players but ive only read the basic books Skalanskys theroy of poker and Dan Harringtons books and i feel soooo 1 dimensional when i play cash that opening up like this would take away the bordem of playing ABC poker. Although it would probably lead to higher variance.

The main idea behind it would be not to build big pots myself when OOP because in scenario 1) i can win the hand with the continuation and i can still fold if i check the turn and the player bets and ive a dominated hand however if he bets the turn and ive a good hand i still get to play a big pot and if he checks and i dont have a great hand i get a free card to improve.

And in scenario 2 i invest very little in the pot, if he calls i get a cheap look at the turn with a drawing hand and if he raises i can fold my worse hands or call or re-raise with my better hands. In both circumstances im in control of the size of the pot even though im OOP. And also make the villains uncomfortable playing a pot against me so they maybe only tempted to play stronger hands and i could put them on a tighter range.

Sorry Mods you might need to apply for a bigger hosting package after this post:eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DeadParrot

and scenario 3?

dvdfan

DeadParrot wrote:

and scenario 3?

Well it wasnt the best example because your in position in that example but again this is a hand that you want a cheap showdown with so you could also mix in playing the odd 2 pair/set or TPTK like this and check raise the turn if he bets which might allow you to get a few showdowns with underpairs on Ace High Boards at a later stage.

The whole idea of the scenarios are getting action when youve a good hand which you normally wouldnt playing ABC poker. Seeing cheap turns when weve drawing hands, controlling the pot size OOP and making it very hard for the opponent to put you on a marginal or big hand.

This might require showing cards to your opponent to build this image depending on circumstances but i feel it would add a dimension to the way you play and fustrate the hell out of alot of players.