Gay Sub-Culture

Boston

I really don't know where I'm going with this thread, but basically I've taken to reading a couple Gay blogs by Americans, and the two main things I've picked up on are

A) A Strong culture of unprotected sex.
A Strong culture of not only being HIV+ but also that it's somewhat a good thing, as in will gain you more acceptance and will liberate you.

I have to say I've not found this to be the case in Ireland but maybe I'm missing something? The Yanks seem to blame this on the sub culture on a new trend in the pornography industry which they claim is glamorising unprotected sex. "Breeding and Seeding" are the watch words of this genre. I've even read tips on about how to "seed" a bottom withouthim knowing.

Anybody any thoughts? I know it's probably a touchy subject, but I found it rather shocking the attitude expressed where.

karen3212

this sounds fairly ridiculous and far fetched to me. Could you cite your sources please

JC 2K3

I believe homosexuals should move away from the notion of being identified as a subculture.

I think that the strong urge to profess one's sexuality which is held by a minority of homosexuals leads to them discussing their sexual practices more publically than heterosexuals.

I don't think most homosexuals are any less cautious or more promiscuous than most heterosexuals, but homosexuals who are seem to be more open to admitting what they've done sexually.

Stark

GCN did an article a good while back about barebacking parties "chasing the gift".

Apparently it does happen on this side of the Atlantic. Although the National Aids Trust has dismissed most "bug chasing" as people engaging in fantasy and not actually looking to be seeded.

Boston

karen3212 wrote:

this sounds fairly ridiculous and far fetched to me. Could you cite your sources please

Not on this forum as I can't like to adult material, but if you do a search for Bug chasing and the other two key words I mentioned you'll come across a fair few blogs where people discuss their experiences very openly.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I believe homosexuals should move away from the notion of being identified as a subculture.

The title is in reference to Sub-cultures within gay society rather then homosexuality being a sub-culture in and of itself.

Stark wrote:

GCN did an article a good while back about barebacking parties "chasing the gift".

Apparently it does happen on this side of the Atlantic. Although the National Aids Trust has dismissed most "bug chasing" as people engaging in fantasy and not actually looking to be seeded.

I always assumed certain activities over here involved Involved protection, now I'm having my doubts tbh. Over there it seems so run of the mill to be Infected, it's pretty scary. It's like people come out as being gay and then they come out as being positive, there seems to be a genuine pride about it. I find it hard to understand.

BuffyBot

I don't think you should jump to the conclusion that a couple of blogs are representative of Americans, or that there is a strong culture of unprotected sex/bug chasing.

You simply have to remember that there is more of them, so of course they are more likely to be visible than those undertaking the same activities here.

And frankly, I think it has bugger all to do with porn - that's an easy way for people to blame someone/thing.

Stark

BuffyBot wrote:

And frankly, I think it has bugger all to do with porn - that's an easy way for people to blame someone/thing.

If only there was a video game we could blame it on.

MicraBoy

I've even read tips on about how to "seed" a bottom withouthim knowing.

Interesting...I have a friend who told me about a guy he hooked up with that whipped off the condom (on the sly of course) when they changed position. Luckily he noticed and told him to take a hike. This was pretty much what he was at.

Stark

Fúck. Your friend should have reported the guy and had him prosecuted.

Boston

BuffyBot wrote:

I don't think you should jump to the conclusion that a couple of blogs are representative of Americans, or that there is a strong culture of unprotected sex/bug chasing.

Well there's two ways or looking at it, it either is a small but somewhat vocal minority (on the internet anyway) or it's common enough and these people are merely using the anonymous nature of the medium to express themselves freely.

And frankly, I think it has bugger all to do with porn - that's an easy way for people to blame someone/thing.

I tend to agree. People are beyond the stage of "monkey see monkey do", and beside Porn can allow people to safely explore fantasies they would never dream of doing in real life.

MicraBoy I do wonder how common that type of thing is. Lucky your mate copped it though.

Sapien

Boston wrote:

The title is in reference to Sub-cultures within gay society rather then homosexuality being a sub-culture in and of itself.

In that case the thread title is a little ambiguous.

I've heard about this before, right back into the nineties, and I have no reason to believe that it is at all significant. It strikes me as one of those pattern psychoses - like militant, "thin=power" anorexics - that are disproportionately conspicuous due to the need of those concerned to find solace and affirmation amongst like-minded people, and their inevitable tendency to use the internet to that end.

I wonder whether anybody has bothered to find out whether there are heterosexuals engaged in similar pursuits.

Rock Climber

It's sickening s h it.

Every date is potentially The One. Stepping out of the cab into the rain, I ask what he will do if he finds out one day that he has succeeded in being infected -- ending the fun of being a bug chaser. He stops, then says he might move on to being a gift giver: "If I know that he's negative and I'm ****ing him, it sort of gets me off. I'm murdering him in a sense, killing him slowly, and that's sort of, as sick as it sounds, exciting to me."

link .

Bare back is nice when both of you know that you are HIV negative.

MicraBoy

I wonder whether anybody has bothered to find out whether there are heterosexuals engaged in similar pursuits.

I would say there is at least ancedotal evidence that this happens with straight guys too. So perhaps it isn't a gay thing at all, just there is a certain section of the population who believe their personal pleasure is more important than the well being of others.

Boston

Sapien wrote:

In that case the thread title is a little ambiguous.

Problem solved then

I've heard about this before, right back into the nineties, and I have no reason to believe that it is at all significant. It strikes me as one of those pattern psychoses - like militant, "thin=power" anorexics - that are disproportionately conspicuous due to the need of those concerned to find solace and affirmation amongst like-minded people, and their inevitable tendency to use the internet to that end.

So rare nut job? I have my doubts

I wonder whether anybody has bothered to find out whether there are heterosexuals engaged in similar pursuits.

Well the whole tricking People into unprotected sex happens, Don't know about the desire to be infected.

Boston

Jesus that article was incredibly messed up.

Highlighted a fair few things such as causes and also the reluctance of gay organisations to accept the practise happens.

I found this pretty chilling

You can **** whoever you want, **** as much as you want, and nothing worse can happen to you. Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV."

the_syco

Boston wrote:

The Yanks seem to blame this on the sub culture on a new trend in the pornography industry which they claim is glamorising unprotected sex.

This is bo||ox, tbh. In the 90's, none of the porn stars wore condoms. Back in the late 90's, when someone found out one of them had HIV, the sh|t hit the fan, as all the porn stars were fcuking each other, which meant everyone had gotten it. This devestated the porn community, as alot of the well known porn stars could no longer act on the small screen. If you look at porn now, everyone is wearing a condom. Although alot of them don't like it "it's like seeing the wires on a stuntman", everyone now has to wear one.

It would seem that people are trying the "well, smoking makes X look cool, so lets try it", except instead of smoking, is unprotected sex. Its a sad world when people think that you need an uncurable diesase before you can be part of the club.

You can **** whoever you want, **** as much as you want, and nothing worse can happen to you. Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV."

Well, I'd kill the woman if she knowingly gave me HIV. And I'd say there are many guys from both sides of the fence who'd do likewise, so these people will have to thread carefully with who they give it to.

Stark

the_syco wrote:

Although alot of them don't like it "it's like seeing the wires on a stuntman", everyone now has to wear one.

Though thanks to the digital age, condoms can now be made invisible

Marksie

to be honest no matter how they dress it up..chasing the bug or whatever. It still strikes me as being a case of well someone infected me so I am knowingly going to infect someone else.

Smacks almost of revenge, but then again i am thinking back to cases where guys knowing they had it infected women.

Boston

the_syco wrote:

This is bo||ox, tbh. In the 90's, none of the porn stars wore condoms. Back in the late 90's, when someone found out one of them had HIV, the sh|t hit the fan, as all the porn stars were fcuking each other, which meant everyone had gotten it. This devestated the porn community, as alot of the well known porn stars could no longer act on the small screen. If you look at porn now, everyone is wearing a condom. Although alot of them don't like it "it's like seeing the wires on a stuntman", everyone now has to wear one.

Sorry you miss understand, theres a rising trend of barebacking (Gay sex without condoms) in gay pornography. This is what they are blaming.

It would seem that people are trying the "well, smoking makes X look cool, so lets try it", except instead of smoking, is unprotected sex. Its a sad world when people think that you need an uncurable diesase before you can be part of the club.

Knowing how god damn polarised and cliquey gay society can be, I'd imagine that it's very accurate that you need HIV to accepted by some.

Well, I'd kill the woman if she knowingly gave me HIV. And I'd say there are many guys from both sides of the fence who'd do likewise, so these people will have to thread carefully with who they give it to.

While off topic, would you feel the same about a woman who had a "happy accident" while claiming to be on the pill? I've met some women that are scary when it comes to wanting a baby.

imonboards

I've never been 'on the scene'....

But the amount of people looking for just sex on gaydar,
the crusing, poppers, cottaging and sauna's...

Then to a good extent I think your assertion

A) A Strong culture of unprotected sex.

Is pretty acurate.

Straight people dont have this culture to cottage, cruise parks, visit saunas (not for the sauna) all of which are just based around 'getting off'.

How does just getting off improve us / normalize us / stop those impressions others have of us.

To me as gay as I am, I really detest some of these 'gay cultures'.

In fact when I meet people - finding out they are really into those
things makes me run a mile, becuase it just doesnt do it for me.


For me - I wish 'gay' culture was just as normal and bland, as 'straight' culture - without this need to have these places / habits that are only there
to service carnal desires.

Boston

Ah yes "the grass is always greener". I know that's not true. There's no point in comparing it to heterosexual lifestyles.

Marksie

imonboards wrote:

For me - I wish 'gay' culture was just as normal and bland, as 'straight' culture - without this need to have these places / habits that are only there
to service carnal desires.

There is an equal amount of that in straight culture as well. I am not sure your assesment that straight culture is normal and bland is a valid one.

Rev Hellfire

marksuttonie wrote:

There is an equal amount of that in straight culture as well. I am not sure your assesment that straight culture is normal and bland is a valid one.

I'm sure you're correct on that one, who knows what goes on behind locked doors. Now I may be off the mark here, but the perception is that while non-vanilla activities certainly exist within the non-gay community the popular perception is that the percentages are greater within the gay community for such activities and it is seen as more accepting of them.

Stark

imonboards wrote:

Straight people dont have this culture to cottage, cruise parks, visit saunas (not for the sauna) all of which are just based around 'getting off'.

Ever hear of a "swingers party"?

imonboards wrote:

How does just getting off improve us / normalize us / stop those impressions others have of us.

How does the existence of Copper Face Jacks affect the perception of straight people?

Beruthiel

Stark wrote:

How does the existence of Copper Face Jacks affect the perception of straight people?

Slapper Face Jacks.
Jeez, last time I was down home (in the sticks) there was a girl sitting on her fellas lap with her knickers down round her ankles, his too, fine you might say, but this was in the middle of a nightclub, in plain view of the rest of us round the table.
imonboards, I think you'll find that no matter who or what people are, a certain percentage will be more crazy than others.

imonboards

Beruthiel wrote:

imonboards, I think you'll find that no matter who or what people are, a certain percentage will be more crazy than others.

I guess your right.

BuffyBot

this thread has portrayed casual sex as completely risky, disgusting and even sadistic. How anyone can subject themselves to cottaging and cruising and suchlike is beyond me.

Let's not over react..

damien

You can **** whoever you want, **** as much as you want, and nothing worse can happen to you. Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV."

Which is very very wide of the mark. Those that continue to have unprotected sex after being diagnosed with HIV die sooner and die even more horrible deaths.

That Rolling Stone article is afterall a Rolling Stone article. I've not seen anything of great quality in years but they do have a lot of hyped up bull to get people reading. As Stark mentioned earlier, the vast majority of the bug chasers are just into role-playing fantasy situations, not the real thing. The BBC did a documentary on it recently enough, think it's on my HD somewhere here and I don't think they were able to find any "real" bugchasers.

Marksie

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Now I may be off the mark here, but the perception is that while non-vanilla activities certainly exist within the non-gay community the popular perception is that the percentages are greater within the gay community for such activities and it is seen as more accepting of them.

No I think you are right on the mark, no pun intended. Its a case of finger pointing of one group at another group without realising that they are identical.
It is ALL down to perception

JupiterKid

I find this subculture of bug chasing, gifting of HIV and the like absolutely sickening and depraved. There is no doubt that "bareback" (sex without condoms) films are becoming increasingly prominent in gay porn.

I also believe that because America is such an extreme society, with extreme and vicious homophobia there is also the opposite extreme among gay culture with incredible promiscuity, drug use and now "bug chasing" activities. I think that those people involved in a culture that wants to have HIV have such incredibly low self-esteem, possibly because major psychological issues stemming from of internalised homophobia, rejection by homophobic redneck parents and community. These bug chasers have little or no self worth and believe that their fate is to die of AIDS. This is really, really sad and sick.

What makes me furious though are those people who would want to infect or "seed" an unknowing partner. They are nothing short of murderous criminals with very sick minds!:mad: :mad: