Quick Ruling Question

eoghan104

Live 1/2 nlh last night.

I raise K9s to 12 villain 1 goes all in for 40 villain 2 calls and i call.

Flop K K 10. I bet 40 Villain 2 calls. I look back down at my cards and when i look back villain 2 has his hand face up and the turn has been dealt.

Villains cards are QJ and the turn is an ace. Before i say anything the river is dealt its a ten. I then tell the dealer that im still in the hand. Whats the ruling?

The dealer wants to put the turn and river back in the deck, shuffle and re deal them!!!! :eek:

El Stuntman

was this in a casino?

5starpool

I believe turn and river should be shuffled back into the deck (without burn cards) but I am open to correction. Only similar comparison I can think of is when turn has been dealt when action has not completed, and I think in this case, burn card for river, and river are taken out (not exposed) and the rest of the cards, including exposed burn card, are shuffled and a new turn is dealt after flop action completes.

Dealer should be given a slap though.

BigCityBanker

where did this happen?

eoghan104

It was in a pub game.

My thinking was that when the villain shows his hand he can no longer raise but only call bets? I thought i should have the chance to bet as it was through no fault of my own that the cards were exposed with action still to take place?

5starpool

What I have said above is my memory of Luke Ivory's ruling in a 'turn dealt too early' situation if that helps. I am sure some of the rule afficionados will post something soon though.

eoghan104

5starpool wrote:

What I have said above is my memory of Luke Ivory's ruling in a 'turn dealt too early' situation if that helps. I am sure some of the rule afficionados will post something soon though.

But is it not different when one hand is exposed? I agree if a turn is dealt early it should be re shuffled.

5starpool

I think the only difference here is that the exposed hand is only allowed to call bets, rather than raise or open bet. You should not be deprived of your chance to bet again in the hand.

El Stuntman

eoghan104 wrote:

It was in a pub game.

My thinking was that when the villain shows his hand he can no longer raise but only call bets? I thought i should have the chance to bet as it was through no fault of my own that the cards were exposed with action still to take place?

spot on imo

1/2 NLHE in a pub game? in Dublin??

trip report pls, I am intrigued

El Stuntman

cardshark202 wrote:

Why did you call a re-raise with K9? This is more important than the ruling.

dey were sooooted

and it was in a pub

e = mc squared

cardshark202

Why did you call a re-raise with K9? This is more important than the ruling.

phantom_lord

and why only a 1/3 pot bet on the flop?

eoghan104

phantom_lord wrote:

and why only a 1/3 pot bet on the flop?

I bet more than 40 on the flop and the all in was only 20 something. I just threw in those figures as it made no odds to what i was asking about.

eoghan104

El Stuntman wrote:

spot on imo

1/2 NLHE in a pub game? in Dublin??

trip report pls, I am intrigued

It would be really -EV to tell Boards about this game.

DPablo

Eoghan,

it was only fair that you were not at a disadvantage because Vinny
wasn't following the game.
I didn't get involved as I didn't know the correct ruling.
You were decent enough not to raise him for the rest of his chips
which he would have surely called, being the loosest player I have ever
come across.
This is surely the wildest cash game this side of Dodge City.
I cashed out for +500 after 3 hours in the Fitz. last Sat. night but fail to make any money on this game where starting hands are irrelevant, pot odds unheard of and laying down a hand unthinkable!
Well done anyway, you seem to have the knack of playing this game but I think I'll stick to the Fitz. or SE.

eoghan104

Hey Paul,

I know it sounds counter productive but to win in the this game my strategy is to play really loose and get into as many pots with Vinny and the likes as possible as they will pay you off with bottom pair as you know!!! Your right it is wild but very very beatable!!! you just have to pick your spots, remember the bluff you pulled on me? I would not lay that down to any other player on the table!

Mellor

What did they do it the end?

In my opinion the turn card shouldn't be removed as the flop action was complete and the turn was due, then he exposed and then the river was dealt.
The correct ruling is probably a reshuffle of the river and the exposed hand cant raise or bet

eoghan104

Mellor wrote:

What did they do it the end?

In my opinion the turn card shouldn't be removed as the flop action was complete and the turn was due, then he exposed and then the river was dealt.
The correct ruling is probably a reshuffle of the river and the exposed hand cant raise or bet

They just decided that because the hand was exposed i had the option to bet and he could only call. the river was not reshuffled. I decided not to bet and took the pot.

5starpool

Mellor wrote:

What did they do it the end?

In my opinion the turn card shouldn't be removed as the flop action was complete and the turn was due, then he exposed and then the river was dealt.
The correct ruling is probably a reshuffle of the river and the exposed hand cant raise or bet

For some reason I read the OP without noticing that the flop action had taken place. The above is correct. Reshuffle (without river burn card), and action to take place on the turn with exposed hand not betting.

eoghan104

5starpool wrote:

For some reason I read the OP without noticing that the flop action had taken place. The above is correct. Reshuffle (without river burn card), and action to take place on the turn with exposed hand not betting.

Why should it be reshuffled? he exposed his hand on the turn? Therefore having no more right to bet in the hand. What affect does that have on the river card?

5starpool

I think it is because action on the turn had not taken place before the river was dealt out, and whether you like the river card or not is irrelevant as far as I know.

eoghan104

Yeh i suppose that makes some sense.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

eoghan104 wrote:

Live 1/2 nlh last night.

I raise K9s to 12 villain 1 goes all in for 40 villain 2 calls and i call.

Flop K K 10. I bet 40 Villain 2 calls. I look back down at my cards and when i look back villain 2 has his hand face up and the turn has been dealt.

Villains cards are QJ and the turn is an ace. Before i say anything the river is dealt its a ten. I then tell the dealer that im still in the hand. Whats the ruling?

The dealer wants to put the turn and river back in the deck, shuffle and re deal them!!!! :eek:

The turn card is ok as the action occured and was called
2 rulings here Depending on the Casinos House rule of course .. His hand could be killed for exposing his cards During play is the first even though he prob did not mean it depending on the club rules ...If u had not acted on the Turn card then the River card goes back in and is shuffled again and re dealt .......

El Stuntman

eoghan104 wrote:

It would be really -EV to tell Boards about this game.

now that's just selfish

just for that I'll keep to myself the little joint I know where 18-yo Icelandic models with a fetish for guys called Eoghan hang out....

eoghan104

El Stuntman wrote:

now that's just selfish

just for that I'll keep to myself the little joint I know where 18-yo Icelandic models with a fetish for guys called Eoghan hang out....

Its in that place in the garden where the rocks arent quite black......

El Stuntman

eoghan104 wrote:

Its in that place in the garden where the rocks arent quite black......

I was never much good at Cryptic crosswords although can do the Simplex in about 3 minutes flat

in return, the Icelandic nymphos hang out in......Iceland

eoghan104

Im off to start a new thread...... "poker in Iceland?"

Mellor

BIG-SLICK-POKER wrote:

If u had not acted on the Turn card then the River card goes back in and is shuffled again and re dealt .......

After the villian exposed his hand it could be seen that the OP was only ever going to check after the nuts were exposed. Soi the actually rulling isnt too bad.

5starpool

A straight on a paired board is not the nuts.

Whyno

Sorry to hijack the thread but somethin simlar happened to me last tuesday night.Early stages of tourney effective stacks 4k.Utg Lag raises to 600 and i call with AA in mp.Guy to my left reraise all in. Dealer then somehow thinks action is all done and that hes to deal the flop, burns first card and exposes the first card which is an ace but as everybody corrects him he leaves it back on top of the deck.Utg then calls all in and i hesitantly call due to me thinking that the ace be reshuffled into the pack knowing i`m up against 2 pairs KK and JJ. A right schmozzle took place and the deck was reshuffled without the burn card and the flop , turn and river being dealt and god only knows how the aces withstood a straight and flush draw.
Is this the correct ruling on this???

5starpool

I believe so.