Fianna Fail and the Skeletons in the Closet

Ulster9

With the Election closing can Fianna Fail continue with a leader that is a risk to the stability of a new government assuming Fianna Fail make up the next government.Would Bertie be better off resigning after the election?
Have Fianna Fail removed the shackles of corruption allegations or are there more skeletons in the closet for a party that has close ties to property developers?
If Fine Gael make the numbers could we be sure that with the spot light on them that they would be different?

gandalf

And your opinions on these are what?

Heinrich

Bertie's financial doings stretch credibility to the limits! If he was that squeaky clean then all his transactions-mattress-sock-safe etc. would have been documented and making public these documents would clear the air for once and for all! He was, after all, the Minister for Finance at the time.

Ulster9

Personally i would like Bertie to resign after the election and be replaced with Brian Cowen preferably.I feel he was dishonest during Bertiegate scandal and treated the concerns of the people with contempt.
I also think that that Fianna Fail has too close a relationship with property developers.I know of Fianna Fail elected representative that are involved in purchasing property and having it zoned for housing.While this may all be above board it stinks of self-serving opportunism and taking advantage of their positions.It undermines confidence in the political system.I am suspicious of Fine Gael for the same reasons.

ballooba

I'd have a lot more time for Cowen than Bertie. At the moment though, getting Fianna Fail out is the priority. They've gotten far too arrogant for their own good.

gandalf

Personally I think there is a high chance of Bertie resigning after the election if they have to rely on the Greens (didn't Sargent say he wouldn't serve under Bertie as Taoiseach) or Labour (eventhough they say they won't and I hope they don't) to make up the next government.

The amount of scandal and incompetence surrounding the current government is incredible, whats even more incredible is that they have hard necked it out and no one has been held responsible.

I have no doubt that Fine Gael have skeletons in their cupboards but given they have not been in power as much as FF I have a feeling they have smaller closets, and they do appear to take stronger action against anyone found to be up to no good.

swiss

If Fianna Fáil were very concerned about the potential fallout from the political scandals in which its leader is implicated they would not have decided to use his image in so prolific a manner in the forthcoming election campaign. To be frank I don't blame them. The personal profile and popularity of the Taoiseach is still high, despite the questions hanging over his financial dealings. After all, if he can take 10 grand from his mates without disclosing it to the revenue commissioners, subsequently cry about it on television when found out, and enjoy a popularity bump, then he truly has earned the title 'teflon Taoiseach'.

Of course it is likely that Fianna Fáil will drop some support from the last general election for many reasons - one of which being the perception of corruption and sleaze. However I suspect it is unlikely that another FF leader such as Cowen could command as much support as Bertie at this time. For this reason alone it would be premature of FF to suggest a leadership change, especially this close to a general election.

Heinrich

swiss wrote:

After all, if he can take 10 grand from his mates without disclosing it to the revenue commissioners, subsequently cry about it on television when found out, and enjoy a popularity bump, then he truly has earned the title 'teflon Taoiseach'.

Would he then be the "best of a bad lot"? Imagine the likes of Cullen, Martin, Brennan as Toiseach. *shudder*

DublinWriter

swiss wrote:

After all, if he can take 10 grand from his mates without disclosing it to the revenue commissioners, subsequently cry about it on television when found out, and enjoy a popularity bump, then he truly has earned the title 'teflon Taoiseach'.

I walked through the crowds outside Leinster House demonstrating about the release of child-abusers last year, and you would have swore that they were going to storm the Dail.

Joe Duffy was taking interviews and broadcasting Liveline through a big P.A. system and the whole vibe was like the fall of Hanoi.

A few months later and it's hardly remembered.

We the great Irish unwashed have no sense of enduring outrage. There's a list as long as your arm ranging from E-Voting machines, the withdrawl of the Widows' Pensions, A&E and what-ever-you're-having yourself. As long as we personally are doing ok, then feck it, I'm alright jack, etc.

swiss

Heinrich wrote:

Would he then be the "best of a bad lot"?

If by best you mean most likely to retain and obtain seats for the party, then I would say yes. It is unlikely that Fianna Fáil could do better electorally with another leader at the helm at this time, and a change this close to the election would be disasterous for party morale.

As for potential alternatives after the election, then I would say it would be between Brian Cowen and Míchael Martin. Both are competent and articulate, and have years of ministerial experience. But such speculation at this point is moot.

gandalf

DublinWriter wrote:

We the great Irish unwashed have no sense of enduring outrage.

You've hit the nail on the head with that statement !!

bmaxi

DublinWriter wrote:

We the great Irish unwashed have no sense of enduring outrage. There's a list as long as your arm ranging from E-Voting machines, the withdrawl of the Widows' Pensions, A&E and what-ever-you're-having yourself. As long as we personally are doing ok, then feck it, I'm alright jack, etc.[/QUOTE

Absolutely right, a recent poll suggests that a certain Minister, who has presided over some of the greatest debacles and scandals in the history of the state, will have no trouble retaining his seat, a disgraced former T.D. who encouraged people to defraud the Irish taxpayer, has a good chance of returning to the Dail, Here in my own constituency a former T.D. who was expelled from his party (lol) for fraud, is likely to run, for that same party, and could take a seat.We're a sophisticated electorate alright.

mikemac

Maybe it's a mentality unique to the Irish.
We all admire the "cute hoor" and "sure if we were in power, we'd do the same ourselves".

El Stuntman

micmclo wrote:

Maybe it's a mentality unique to the Irish.
We all admire the "cute hoor" and "sure if we were in power, we'd do the same ourselves".

you find the same mentality in Italy

it's allegedly a legacy of centuries of being ruled by foreign powers; why on earth would you want to obey 'their' laws? Then, when the former power is kicked out, the mentality continues to thrive

not sure I buy this one 100% myself but there's definitely something in it

whippet

it's not an uniquely irish thing at all !!! the celtic cubs seem to get great pretencious milage out of berating their own .. the majority of political leaders around the world have some dodgy histories but still get elected !! are you trying to say that the irish love of the cute hoor is infectious and with our history of emigration we have spread it around the world ?

"The greatest democracy in the world" (tm) has GWB at its helm .. need I say more?