Varied Offspring between an odd couple =S

BeerWolf

How it happened, I'll never know - but two of our dogs, a male Great Dane and a female Tibetan Terrier (Yeah, huge size differences :rolleyes:) managed to procreate and produce a small yet odd litter.

Group of them



Cedric (Looks like a Great Dane)



Lisa (Looks like a Newfounder)



Michael (Looks like a Lab)

littlebug

Gorgeous!
I once knew a dog that was the result of a dalliance between a dalmation (father) and a little terrier type mongrel. The result (well one of the results) was a short fat spotty dog.

peasant

How it happened?

Well ...that's just what happens when you keep two intact dogs of the opposite sex and don't pay attention ...as sure as rain they'll make puppies at some stage.

Might be a good idea to get at least one of them neutered to prevent it from happening again, preferably both.

And count your blessings, you could easily have lost the Tibetan Terrier and all the puppies.
Matings of dogs with big size differences (especially if the female is the small one) often result in the death of mother and pups or at least massive complications.

Annika30

I agree with peasant, there is nothing cute about it. You were lucky nothing went wrong.

peasant

Well, something DID go wrong ...

Three pups isn't a normal litter size, some of the foetuses obviously died in the womb.

Annika30

Again, I would not recommend cross breeding at all.

BeerWolf

There was initially a litter of 6, 3 died during labour and the black one was the runt as you'd note his size.

The mother's been spayed since.

As to how it happened, unsure - chances are someone who visited the house left the door open and she got out.

And yes, I do consider it lucky that she hasn't suffered from any complications and am happy she's alright.

I posted here on the brighter side, not a lecture. <_<;

Glowing

BeerWolf, yes sometimes things can get a little heavy around here

I think your dogs are hilarious by the way. But I'm also very happy you had the mother spayed since! Make sure to have the pups done too when they're old enough ....

peasant

BeerWolf wrote:

I posted here on the brighter side, not a lecture. <_<;

BeerWolf

You wouldn't believe the number of eejits out there, that "inspired" by the cute looks of your pups, would just go out and try the same and mate their Dachshund with a St. Bernard (or whatever) ...just for the fun of it.

Hellrazer

BeerWolf wrote:

I posted here on the brighter side, not a lecture. <_<;

Agree with you Beerwolf regarding the lecturing---Theres a bit much of it going on here lately.

These things happen and you`ve had the sense to get the female spayed since.
Those pups are so cute by the way.
Richie

Annika30

Well if you consider that 16.000 dogs are put down every year in Ireland, there seem to be one too many of these so called accidents happening in Ireland.
I did not mean to lecture BeerWolf I just don't see the funny side of it.

Hellrazer

Annika30 wrote:

Well if you consider that 16.000 dogs are put down every year in Ireland, there seem to be one too many of these so called accidents happening in Ireland.
I did not mean to lecture BeerWolf I just don't see the funny side of it.

Annika30--I too consider the fact that so many animals are put to sleep each year a tragedy but the original poster has had the sense to get the mother spayed so that it doesnt happen again so I wouldnt say that they are one of the causes of this problem here in Ireland--In my opinion its the disreputable breeders out for the quick few quid and not genuine "accidents" that are the biggest cause of "over breeding" leading to destruction of unwanted pets.

Im sick to death of a couple of posters lecturing everyone who posts here with a problem.Ive been down this road in the past and Im not letting it start again.If you feel that you dont agree with what has happened by all means state that AND try to help with the problem in a non-confrontational way and not in an aggressive "lecturing" way.
It doesnt do anyone any good to keep lecturing people about what theyve done wrong.
From my experience people listen to "advice" more quickly than a "lecture"

Richie.

Annika30

Hellrazer, Fair enough. But to respond to your reply about disreputable breeders being the biggest cause of over breeding leading to destruction of unwanted pets. I can agree with that to some extent but if you consider all the loose dogs running around everywhere, I would certainly think that contributes as much to the problem as disreputable breeders.
Annika

Glowing

Come on, lets not let this get out of hand. All BeerWolf wanted to do was to put up a cute picture of his 3 completely different looking pups. I don't think he's trying to making light of a serious situation - I am an avid greyhound-as-pets supporter and that industry rife with overbreeding, cruelty and neglect which I don't find in one bit funny. However I can make a seperation here and take this thread with a bit of humour. He's made a genuine mistake, and has taken the right steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. Whats so wrong about that?!

This forum has become awfully serious lately - there *are* huge problems in the pet/racing industry in Ireland, and alot of terribly cruel owners who should be hung up with piano wire - however none of us are perfect, we try our best, and could probably do with getting off the high horse for a bit ..... make your point, but don't lecture unless he actually warrents it!

Hellrazer

Annika30 wrote:

Hellrazer, Far enough. But to respond to your reply about disreputable breeders being the biggest cause of over breeding leading to destruction of unwanted pets. I can agree with that to some extent but if you consider all the loose dogs running around everywhere, I would certainly think that contributes as much to the problem as disreputable breeders.
Annika

We could argue all day about the cause and I agree that a lot of it is to do with loose animals running around reproducing at an alarming rate but ultimately it comes down to lack of proper policing of animal welfare laws(dog licence anyone??),spayed and neutering cost being ridiculously high in some areas(should be offered free and subsidised by the government),lack of knowledge by people who buy the "must have" breed of the year(and again bred like wildfire by the breeders I mentioned above) and general lack of knowledge in keeping these breeds.

Until the laws are enforced with the appropriate fines etc for breaking those laws nothing is going to change.

Annika30

Well said, that is the only way forward.:)

Our man in Havana

Cute puppies - so glad to hear you did the responsible thing & got mummy spayed

Lets try & keep things bright & cheerful here guys! Anymore cute pics?? Richie any new reptile pics I can ohhhhh & ahhh over???

peasant

Right

As an apology for my earlier snappyness ....


... meet Harvey

(now 7 years old, enjoying the Sunset on Easter Saturday)

(now all say ...aaaahhhh)

popppy

wow, what a dolly mixture of pups !!! They are adorable, as is the pic of Harvey (great shot)........just wondering is it just me that is not getting group pic of pups ?
Peace and love
: )

shinners007

In my opinion its the disreputable breeders out for the quick few quid and not genuine "accidents" that are the biggest cause of "over breeding" leading to destruction of unwanted pets.

Ya right thats a ridiclous staement to be making when in fact its cross breeds and mongrels that account for the majority of animals put to sleep not Pedigree's,also im sick on this forum of peolpe blaming breeders when in fact there is a small minority unreputale and breeding for the money. The IKC should make it manadorty for breeders to have parents heart tested, hip socred, etc.. before allowing parents to breed and register pups, this reduces all these problms with PB's. Why does it always have to be be PB V Rescue, at the end of th day mongrels and cross breeds are the result of irresponsible owner ship yet PB's are reffered to as sought after "dog of the year". AS for genuine accidents they should not occur there are methods to prevent this ie spaying. Also if you walk in to ay rescue you damn well will see more mongrels in there than pB's cused from over breeding as you put it leading to unwanted pets. The majority of people buy PB's for tmperment, medicial history, lines etc, when they pay a lot of money for them they are less likely to throw the pet out or toss it aside. however take a cross breed . mix unknown, temperment unknown etc.. then more likely to get rid of it leaving it homeless.

Ya can ban be if ya like but im sick to my teeth of coming on her seeing all these preachers and lecturers giving so called advice yet calling cross breeding cute and accidents and PB breeding wrong- sickening! Get yer facts right.

SuzyS1972

Sticking my oar in her now about the cross breed and mongrel;s being the ones to be pts every year.

Bear in mind that loads and loads of puppies we get into rescue are the direct result of people NOT spaying and neutering their pure breed dogs.

I know someone who runs Westie Rescue and she is inundated with dogs all the time for whatever reason the owners may have for discarding their dogs. Some genuine some plain bloody stupid.

In rescue we have the yearly influx of this years popular breeds - always westies and yorkies and last year staffies. I expect Boxers to be next as every teenager I come across lately has one on the end of a lead.
I do not agree in the slightest that because some breed is paid for that they will not be discarded too.
We get in mammy's and their pure bred litters because some eejit bred tham and couldn't sell them - I could go on ( some say I do a bit too much ! )
The majority of breeds we get in are in a disgusting state - left ungroomed coz no-one considered the cost of maintaining a coat and the grooming needs and fees - Lots of them are underweight with no muscle build up coz they are large breeds no on bothered their butts to walk.

Statistically we are able to home these breeds quicker than the mongrels because people in Ireland seem to prefer a pure breed - hence the mongrels get over looked so this may add to the destruction figures.
But beleive me if you go to Ashton pound anytime there are breeds in there unwanted or picked up as they were allowed wander.
This week alone there has been a ShihTzu - a Tibetan Spanial - a King Charles spaniel and various staffies so it's not wall to wall Heinz 57's !

SuzyS1972

I'm not being pure breed v rescue btw
I don't care if someone researches a pet and buys from a reputable breeder and puts thought and care into it !
I cannot see what is wrong there. I just have a pain in me face with people's misconceptions that the little yorkie they bought and left out the back and didn't train isn't the marvellous little well tempered pooch the breed standard said they would be.
99% of puppies are only the dogs we make them through training and positive re-inforcement and time and care.

Just pee'd off that generally pure breeds and mixes are allowed to blooming procreate at will by irresponsible people all the time Shinners !
There are great breeders out there - I just wish that the Government - or some appointed body would be set up to regulate breeding in the interests of the pet - both pure breed and mixed breed pets.

A government funded neutering scheme funded by a larger licence fee might be one option.
It is disheartening to see so so many unwanted dogs all the time whatever their origins and I suppose people directly in rescue get a bit emotional about it.

Hellrazer

shinners007 wrote:

Ya right thats a ridiclous staement to be making when in fact its cross breeds and mongrels that account for the majority of animals put to sleep not Pedigree's,also im sick on this forum of peolpe blaming breeders when in fact there is a small minority unreputale and breeding for the money. The IKC should make it manadorty for breeders to have parents heart tested, hip socred, etc.. before allowing parents to breed and register pups, this reduces all these problms with PB's. Why does it always have to be be PB V Rescue, at the end of th day mongrels and cross breeds are the result of irresponsible owner ship yet PB's are reffered to as sought after "dog of the year". AS for genuine accidents they should not occur there are methods to prevent this ie spaying. Also if you walk in to ay rescue you damn well will see more mongrels in there than pB's cused from over breeding as you put it leading to unwanted pets. The majority of people buy PB's for tmperment, medicial history, lines etc, when they pay a lot of money for them they are less likely to throw the pet out or toss it aside. however take a cross breed . mix unknown, temperment unknown etc.. then more likely to get rid of it leaving it homeless.

Ya can ban be if ya like but im sick to my teeth of coming on her seeing all these preachers and lecturers giving so called advice yet calling cross breeding cute and accidents and PB breeding wrong- sickening! Get yer facts right.

Shinners read the post again--Its my opinion.Your entitled to yours but in the last few months the amount of PB Ive seen in rescue centres is scary.
Maybe I generalised a bit but all you have to do is pick up the buyandsell any weekend and the amount of PB dogs in it for sale is amazing and I wouldnt say most of them sellers are repuatable breeders.Having "ikc registered" after the ad means nothing.

Im also in 100% agreement that there are sh!t loads of non PB aswell.The problem is down to owners who dont have control over their dogs ie no spaying, no neutering etc.
As for the IKC--useless shower altogether.Anyone can register a dog as PB by filling out a few forms and sending in the bucks.
What is needed here is regulation and stiffer penalties for breaking these regulations and Ive made that point since I started posting on this tread.

No ones going to get banned over an opinion and when your finished ranting you`ll see that Im with you all the way on this albeit Im coming from a different side of the argument.
Richie

Rigsby

Hellrazer wrote:

What is needed here is regulation and stiffer penalties

I agree 100 %.

I got my dog from an animal shelter. The woman who runs it, apart from caring for the dogs ( a good few PB's BTW), also spends a lot of time (and money) prosecuting neglectful owners. She told me the Gardai do a great job in bringing the cases to court, only to result is either probation or a very small fine. It's time we took this problem seriously. :mad:

shinners007

Look feir enough, but for god sake all this crap about P'bs and mongrels here isnt going to change antyhing-- obviuosly people wouldnt be breeding unless the demand was there??? So not only is the breeder in the wrong so is the buyers, As for yoour statements susy typical, anyother preacher, your opinion is ur own but once agin you stste the bad conditiond of PB's in rescue why not state the condition of cross breeds??? Neither is better than another you know only difference is you buy one and get the other for free! not everyone wants to rescue so why is every one here ADVISING PEOPLE to REsCUE when they never asked anything about it??? Its annoying, let people decide for them selves. BTW there is in fact more mongrels/crossbreds in shelters than PB's OK! AS stated the IKC needs to do something to oust unreputable breeders as ive said before!

Fact is the streets are full of unspayed dogs ---- THis is causing more of a problem than breeders who are reputable and take the correct avenues in terms of heart testing etc..

fits

edit: think I may have mixed shinners up with someone else...
edit again: I didnt

Of course people should decide for themselves where they want to get their dog, but theres absolutely nothing wrong with giving them information.
I dont think in honesty that you know very much about rescues, and the numbers of purebreds or cross breeds that end up in rescues. I just looked up a site there and there are pure bred collies, labradors, jack russels and a tibetan terrier amongst others looking for homes.
Control of breeding, combined with better licensing laws, and more education are the factors that will make a difference to dog welfare in Ireland.

shinners007

Shinners, it sounds to me like you want to protect your own occupation, which is breeding dogs, is it not?

Total BS, yes i breed dogs what my problem is is evry bredder being painted with the one brush fits ok, My dogs are line tested, hip scored, heart tested by a cardiologist vet, vet checked, vaccined, regularly boosters etc,.. i could go on. My dogs have no problems to date the eldest aged 6, any of the pups from litters are also in perfect health i knoe this as i keep in conact with buyers. BTw breeding isnt my occuaption either!

As for rescues i know them better than you think and have rescued two dogs in the past one a bad experience the other terrrier cross was fine and passed away last year.

For your information i have a written agreement that the pups be spayed at 6 months or older and i follow up this to ensure my pups are used as breeding machines in the future or to add to the number of un reputable breeders out there!

I would glady take back a pup i sell i did so once before when the person changed jobs and moved, i still have sammy now and didnt toss him aside just cos he was spayed Does that answer your question for YOU??

And before you say it - i could well manage to take back every pup i sell as i have 200acres of land that i would glady give to the dogs also i do not breed my bitches when there over 4years and never allow my females to have more than three litters, I only have three adult females so you do the math.

And by the way i dont care if you mixed me up with someome else ive no problem saying i breed boxers and boxers only as that is the only breed i know inside out

fits

Well why do you get so defensive when someone puts up information about rescues then? I could be wrong, but it comes across to me like you see rescues as a threat to your dog breeding...
IMO noone was preaching to anyone about rescuing dogs.

shinners007

As stated before i really dont mind whether people want a PB or a rescue, Rescuing is great giving a dog a home and new start in life, how evr it just isnt for every one, neither is buying from a breeder as a lot them are unreputable an i know plenty who have had awful experiences with breeders.

Ive no problem with people giving information to others how ever lately it seems people are saying "rescue a dog, give him/her a new life, there loving and sense danger etc..." Pressuring maing people feel guilty and offering freindly advice are too very different thing's..

So apologies if i seem defensive im not, i just believe people who ask for advice should be given it , not lectured so to speak

Oh and to answer your question rescues are not a threat to my breeding as each day new people are added to my waiting this this is as i show them all dogs medical history, vet check, test results etc and because ive been in the business long enough to be reffered to as a reputable breeder, without sounding full of it might i add

SuzyS1972

shinners007 wrote:

Look feir enough, but for god sake all this crap about P'bs and mongrels here isnt going to change antyhing-- obviuosly people wouldnt be breeding unless the demand was there??? So not only is the breeder in the wrong so is the buyers, As for yoour statements susy typical, anyother preacher, your opinion is ur own but once agin you stste the bad conditiond of PB's in rescue why not state the condition of cross breeds??? Neither is better than another you know only difference is you buy one and get the other for free! not everyone wants to rescue so why is every one here ADVISING PEOPLE to REsCUE when they never asked anything about it??? Its annoying, let people decide for them selves. BTW there is in fact more mongrels/crossbreds in shelters than PB's OK! AS stated the IKC needs to do something to oust unreputable breeders as ive said before!

Fact is the streets are full of unspayed dogs ---- THis is causing more of a problem than breeders who are reputable and take the correct avenues in terms of heart testing etc..

Take off the blinkers and read my posts again - I am merely stating that you said that people are less likely to discard a pure breed than a mongrel and I am telling you that my 6 years experience working with rescues tells me otherwise - thats a fact and NOT my opinion.

Also you are naiive to beleive that people wouldn't be breeding if there wasn't a demand - look at the Buy and Sell are you honestly telling me that all those dogs are going to be sold to decent homes - I don't think so.

There are certainly more dogs in this country than good homes - pure breed or mongrel etc
Also I stated each to their own - I didn't say either dog was better than the other. I said if people want to buy then I see no problem - you have conveniently missed that point.
I also stated there are great breeders out there - just sadly there are many eejits there too . A good breeder would have homes lined up - not put a free ad in the paper and hope for the best
God I'm tired - going for a smoke :cool:

shinners007

Correction a good breeder will breed from good healthy dog's and be willinly to home the pups themselves if a sale falls through as does happen, a good home isnt just what a puppy needs you know it needs love attention TIME etc.. A good breedr will ensure that his/her pups go to a good environment and to reponsible loving people, that breeder should alo check on the puppys in the homes also. For your information i dont wear glasses i just didnt bother reading your post!:p

And your six years of work experience is your opinion not a fact, your one rescue( OR work plave / watever) cant be used statiscally as there is more than you in the country you know!!

People are breeding for the demand also, yes the buy and sell is rampent with so called breeders out to make a few quick bucks..obviously they must be selling if people continue to breed them and sell them in the paper:eek: :eek:

SuzyS1972

Come on Shinners - I work with a few different groups and have been involved with pounds too - I honestly have seen a huge surge in the amount of unwanted pure breeds both adult and litters of pups.

It's sad but true - I hope others around the country involved in rescue can verify this - I am sure that the few rescues I know are not the only ones in the country with this problem ?
I think that 6 years experience gives a good indication of the problem and if you want to call it my opinion then go ahead - doesn't detract from the truth of the matter

But you are missing the point that just because they are selling doesn't make it right
Come full circle with me and you will see lots of them end in rescue !
There are too many dogs being bred and not enough GOOD homes
QED

shinners007

Yes i agree too many PB's are being bred as are there too many so called accidnts occuring, my main point is that some breeders are reputable and im sick of being painted with the same brush as these people when i do things correctly.

Maybe there is an increase due to overbreeding but still there is more cross breds than PB's in rescues (Fact).

I admire your work and the work of rescues throughout the country, but lately in this forum all breeders are being branded as un reputable this is what makes me so angry!!

also i never said that just because there selling makes it right_ again i go back to an earlier statment i made - nreputable breeders are contribyting to the problem but also are the people craeting the demand and buying dogs from random people in papers like the buy and sell etc.. that is what i was reffering to.

As i stated before the IKC needs to do something to solve this poblem.

BeerWolf

Jez - way to hijack a thread...

shinners007

apologies for my part in it beerwolf