The New Gym

godtabh

What do people think of it?

hunnymonster

I think it's badly designed with an awful lot of wasted space and bad priorities for space For example the reception area is huge while the adjacent fitness theatre is cramped. Do we really need so many changing rooms when there is so little exercise space?

Fitness theatre too small, no mirrors, no real stretching area, badly air conditioned and too little equipment for both cardio and weights.

No idea how the pool is doing to work out yet. Can't find any information on how it's going to work re lane swimming and block booking.

I like the ancillary hall and the main hall on the upper floors.

sorry to be so negative. I was really excited about it but relative to the other uni's i train in regularly (UL and UCC) it's a real let down.

godtabh

hunnymonster wrote:

I think it's badly designed with an awful lot of wasted space and bad priorities for space For example the reception area is huge while the adjacent fitness theatre is cramped. Do we really need so many changing rooms when there is so little exercise space?

Fitness theatre too small, no mirrors, no real stretching area, badly air conditioned and too little equipment for both cardio and weights.

I was thinking the same things.

This is my third gym during my time as an under grad/graduate and while the new equipment is always welcome the layout of the gym really lets it down.

I also dont like the fact that there is no toilets/water fountain inside the gym area.

annafreud

yeah i couldnt find that water fountain anywhere - very annoying!
also, you seem to still have to pay for lockers or can you just bring your own padlock?
is it just me or is there no room in the weights section? if you want to use a few dumbells you have to shlep them over to the stretching area on the far side of the gym! it's very small too - im very disappointed. the only real plus for me is the improved changing facilities, and thats not worth €100 extra a year!

hunnymonster

there is a water fountain outside the first set barriers coming out of the fitness theatre. I'm not sure how it will work if you are on a pay per use pass? AFAIK it expires the first time it beeps you through the gate so you can't refill a water bottle?

godtabh

I paid €35 up front last year for lockers for the year.

The only water fountain I saw was upstairs beside stairs.

Moorsy

Yeh I've been hearing all of the above esp. that the gym area is way to small, well more that its the same size as last time.

It’s a real disgrace and bad planning that water fountains are not provided for users of the gym. A membership is paid and it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to get some put in.

What do people think about the upcoming possible plans that the SU in conjunction with DUCAC may propose to the college authorities a student wide levy? Between 40 and 50 euro......

This means every single student will be allowed into the gym next year after registering and paying fees etc. Note anybody who is on a government grant will be exempt (that’s good).

Andrew 83

Moorsy wrote:

What do people think about the upcoming possible plans that the SU in conjunction with DUCAC may propose to the college authorities a student wide levy? Between 40 and 50 euro......

This means every single student will be allowed into the gym next year after registering and paying fees etc. Note anybody who is on a government grant will be exempt (that’s good).

Apparently it's likely to go to a referendum. Really hope that it passes and people don't get selfish if they're not going to use it. If this doesn't happen then anyone joining a sports club that uses the sports hall will have to pay about 200 euro each year.

Haven't been in the new hall yet as they're refusing to let badminton use it until new nets arrive in 2/3 weeks. Ridiculously they won't allow us use the old nets from the old hall as it would 'damage the image' of the new hall.

annafreud

hmm from a purely selfish pov - i hate the idea of all the students using the gym; it's small enough as it is! and as a grad id be paying the guts of 300 a year for a lockerless, water-fountainless, mirror-less, clockless (!) and now over-filled gym! but obviously if i were a student it would be a good idea as the gym has quite a wide appeal. still if i were a really unsporty type i might begrudge the extra 50 a year for sth id never use.

Andrew 83

annafreud wrote:

hmm from a purely selfish pov - i hate the idea of all the students using the gym; it's small enough as it is! and as a grad id be paying the guts of 300 a year for a lockerless, water-fountainless, mirror-less, clockless (!) and now over-filled gym! but obviously if i were a student it would be a good idea as the gym has quite a wide appeal. still if i were a really unsporty type i might begrudge the extra 50 a year for sth id never use.

I have a graduate membership of DUCAC too but I'm speaking from a club poitn of view and wanting members!

annafreud

ah no i do understand that completely, and it would have been a great idea if only the gym had been a bit bigger i do think its crazy to expects club members to pay the full gym membership price - theres has to be some compromise.

godtabh

Isnt the gym open to all students at the moment anyways once you pay the membership.

The same people who dont use the gym now probably wont use the gym in the future when they pay for it.

When I was a student the gym was free (as far as I can remember anyways!) and the crowds werent that bad

Moorsy

Moorsy wrote:

What do people think about the upcoming possible plans that the SU in conjunction with DUCAC may propose to the college authorities a student wide levy? Between 40 and 50 euro......

I'm glad I'll be gone next year if such a decision is coming in.

Moorsy

Myth wrote:

I'm glad I'll be gone next year if such a decision is coming in.

Ahhh don't be soo succinct ,give a bit of rant, why? I have some reservsations about it but for the moment Im sitting on the fence.

godtabh

Myth wrote:

I'm glad I'll be gone next year if such a decision is coming in.

Ah you wont be saying that when your in the real world!

When I left college they started charging to use the gym. You still get the same amount of people. If people want to use they gym they will. The intorduction of an all round fee wont change that.

Moorsy

Moorsy wrote:

Ahhh don't be soo succinct ,give a bit of rant, why? I have some reservsations about it but for the moment Im sitting on the fence.

Because it's money that I don't want to pay? I barely used the gym before, so I wouldn't see why I should have to pay for something I wouldn't use in the future. I acknowledge the low cost of it, but I still wouldn't want to pay it. I also dislike how I'm meant to feel bad if I don't wish my money to go towards something which I'm not going to use.

Plus you could go into the whole argument of how money from the Registration Fee already goes towards paying for the gym.

kearnsr wrote:

Ah you wont be saying that when your in the real world!

When I left college they started charging to use the gym. You still get the same amount of people. If people want to use they gym they will. The intorduction of an all round fee wont change that.

No, but it'd make me pay for something that I don't wish to use!

godtabh

Myth wrote:

Because it's money that I don't want to pay? I barely used the gym before, so I wouldn't see why I should have to pay for something I wouldn't use in the future. I acknowledge the low cost of it, but I still wouldn't want to pay it. I also dislike how I'm meant to feel bad if I don't wish my money to go towards something which I'm not going to use.

Plus you could go into the whole argument of how money from the Registration Fee already goes towards paying for the gym.



No, but it'd make me pay for something that I don't wish to use!

I would say the same about the Union of Students of Ireland fee or what ever they call them selfs. I had no use for them but paid it.

Students pre 2002 had to pay an extra fee so they could build the sports hall. Alot of people wouldnt have any use for it but it was for the good of the college (graduates of this time get a reduced gym fee).

If the money is used for the good of every one rather than just making money I dont see the problem with it.

Any ways I think this is going off topic.

What changes/suggestions would people make to improve it?

kearnsr

kearnsr wrote:

I would say the same about the Union of Students of Ireland fee or what ever they call them selfs. I had no use for them but paid it.

Technically, that was optional

Students pre 2002 had to pay an extra fee so they could build the sports hall. Alot of people wouldnt have any use for it but it was for the good of the college (graduates of this time get a reduced gym fee).

If the money is used for the good of every one rather than just making money I dont see the problem with it.

Any ways I think this is going off topic.

I accept that, and accept that people chose before to pay the money (£50 a year I think it was?) to pay for the sports hall - but I still reserve my opinion that I do not wish to pay for something I would not use. Should such a referendum happen before term ends, I will gladly exercise my right to vote against it.

But yes, let's get back to the point at hand!

shay_562

No, but it'd make me pay for something that I don't wish to use!

The same could be said of a lot of things in college. I financially support the college health services even though I haven't used them in the past two years and am unlikely to use them in the future (given that I have a family doctor that I've been going to all my life that I know well and trust and parents who don't mind giving me money to go see him if I have a problem), and yet I happily pay that money, as do all the other students in the college - in fact, the student body has a collective knicker-fit every time so much as a €10 charge is suggested for visits. A disproportionate amount of my registration fee is spent on equipment for the Hamilton end that I will never, ever have a use for. My money supports the Student Counselling services, all of the SU's projects, societies that I may or may not join and clubs that I wouldn't join if they paid me. And yet, I don't begrudge them that money - such is the way of things. If the college is to provide services to its students at a cost that makes them accessible, then the most sensible way to do it is to spread the costs evenly across everyone.

(Before anybody starts arguing that the Health service/SU/whatever else are necessary or essential, I'd like to briefly mention that obesity is an increasingly serious problem in Ireland, that sports week is next week and that the college should maybe think twice before cutting back on the availability of gym facilities to students and on the level of facilities that smaller sports clubs can use, not least because of the poor image it gives off of the college. Student sports clubs being forced to close when they can't get enough members while Heggo continues to demand a pay rise - not exactly the most positive of messages.)

I'll freely admit to having an extremely biased viewpoint here - the one sports club that I'm really involved with, Ultimate Frisbee, gets most of its membership (which is pretty crucial for funding the club throughout the year) from people who aren't generally that sporty (as in, would never pay for a full gym membership), but see the stand in Freshers' Week, find it amusing and give it a bit of a lash for a relatively small outlay of €4/5. If that outlay becomes €200+, then membership will drop like a stone, to the point that the club becomes unviable. I'd imagine Trampolining, Fencing, Kendo and quite a few others are in a similar position - even bigger sports like basketball may struggle when the only members they can get are the ones who are willing to splash out on a gym membership. But even with this bias, it strikes me as a fundamentally bad idea for the college to risk the damage they'll do to these clubs if the original plans for funding go ahead - I'd see spreading the cost among everyone as being the fairest way to deal with this problem.

xeduCat

I agree about the importance of sport in the context of a Healthy College, and in particular with the concerns that have been expressed by clubs about the everyone-must-be-a-member system. I also have doubts about abolishing pay-as-you-go, as it does reach a certain constituency of students who while not being super-fit or super-sporty, may use the fitness theatre from time to time - I thought we were supposed to be encouraging that, not turning them away?

In principle, though, any proposal for a new levy deserves the strictest of scrutiny. Trinity, along with other higher education institutions, has long departed from the initial principle that the 'registration fee' would make a contribution to the running costs of three supposed 'non-academic' sectors: exams and registration and so on, student activities (clubs/socs/union(s)/media/etc) and student services (health/sport/disability/etc). However, the first of these categories now accounts for the bulk of the spending of the income (which is about eight million euro or so by now).

Let there be no mistakes: the funding or lack of funding to a particular area of College is an internal decision. If the sports centre does not have enough to sustain its operations, that could be changed with the click of a button on someone's Excel spreadsheet. (I'm sure we could all nominate deserving places that the money could be taken from!)

Remember that until 2004, students had unlimited use of the fitness theatre without charge - Trinity could bring that back tomorrow if they wanted to. While steep charges for 'membership', hitting clubs in particular, are of course a bad idea, and a smaller amount for everyone may be a good way out of a whole, it's still necessary to record that students already pay (or have paid on their behalf by a county council) a substantial registration fee that, until 2004, basically gave 'free membership'. The decision to end that system was not due to HEA pressure or messages from the gods, but internal priorities. And it will be internal priorities that decide whether membership/levy/whatever is necessary here.

godtabh

Pre 2004 it worked and the reason (I'm lead to believe by the sports staff) was that when the new gym opened in 2004 Precor (or their reps) had a 2 year call out service. After that time was up in order to maintain the gym a service fee was introduced. Graduates always paid a fee and again this was to supplement the budget.

Man I didnt see this thread going this way.

xeduCat

He's both right and wrong, in a way. Academic equipment is not officially included under any heading of the breakdown of the registration fee. On the other hand, under a decision made (conveniently just after the election) in 2002, €250 of the registration fee goes into the general College pot*, so you could say that equipment etc is indirectly funded alongside everything else that comes out of the core budget (i.e. excluding SFI-funded projects and stuff that comes out of ringfenced acccounts).


* Just to clarify this one, as it causes no amount of confusion. Colleges get (or got; the system is being reformed right now) a 'block grant' (not broken down for any purpose) as well as 'free fees money' (replacement for old tuition fees), research grants, student fees (non-EU, postgrad, etc), and so on.

In 2002, basically in order to balance the books, the Department of Education cut (number of students x €250) from the block grant, and added €250 (plus the normal increase of a few quid for inflation) to the registration fee to make up for it. That year, and every year since, institutions treat that (number of students x €250) as part of the unrestricted block grant - it just goes into the pot.

If this doesn't make sense, and you're crazy enough to want to know more, just ask.

xeduCat

kearnsr wrote:

Pre 2004 it worked and the reason (I'm lead to believe by the sports staff) was that when the new gym opened in 2004 Precor (or their reps) had a 2 year call out service. After that time was up in order to maintain the gym a service fee was introduced.

Broadly speaking they're telling you the truth - the additional element, of course, is that when certain other areas of College have new projects or toys to play with, ongoing costs are magically dealt with by a budget increase. Somehow, this wasn't possible in this case. I suspect it may be more to do with the fact that entry to a sports facility is easy to measure (and to sell to the audience) than something else - if the exam timetable system (which is reg-fee-funded, just like sports) costs more than it used to, you can't really get away with a toll on the exam hall door...

AlexD

The Ancillary hall is supposed to be for indoor sports, especially Martial Arts etc, but the floor has some kind of lino with concrete underneath, it really should be an aerobics studio style with a wooden floor and mirrors.

The showers have no hooks for towels and whatever way the water runs big lumps of dirt accumulate and it's quite disgusting.

There are no club lockers to store equipment seperately and securely.

For all the glass on the outside, it feels like a soviet bunker inside.

I haven't seen all of it but that's a few things I've noticed.

godtabh

I've been in there a bit this week and the more I go there the less I like it

Dave3x

Myth wrote:

Plus you could go into the whole argument of how money from the Registration Fee already goes towards paying for the gym.

Not true. According to the director of Sport, Terry Mc Auley, the centre is expected to be self-sufficient and cover its 2 million a year running costs itself.

Dave3x

Dave3x wrote:

Not true. According to the director of Sport, Terry Mc Auley, the centre is expected to be self-sufficient and cover its 2 million a year running costs itself.

If that's true, great! More money for students.

I honestly find it hard to believe that while they can claim to cover the running costs, that an area of college would willingly cut off an area of income.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

did you know you have to be a fully paid up member to play tennis on the outdoor courts? went down to book tennis and was told "that'll be 270 euro please". Seems a bit crazy, don't think it used to be like that.

also, a bit crappy that there is no staff monthly direct debit option where you can have monthly amounts deducted from your paycheck.

how many workplaces charge their employees to use the staff gym? mad stuff, when you think about it.

King.Penguin

Where does the department of sport get its money? I was under the impression ducac was one of the capitated bodies along with Su, GSu, CSC and something else. THe sports centre is run by Dept of Sport (DOS) not DUCAC. Ducacs offices are inside the sports centre though. So if you want to speak to ducac about a club matter, you presumably, have to be a member of the gym. ducac also gets money from the pav profits. is DOS another capitated body? or does it recieve all revenue from reg fee?

Moorsy

Roundtower2 wrote:

also, a bit crappy that there is no staff monthly direct debit option where you can have monthly amounts deducted from your paycheck.

how many workplaces charge their employees to use the staff gym? mad stuff, when you think about it.

My sister is a lecturer in University of Limerick (UL) and she gets free gym etc...

Jonnykitedude

King.Penguin wrote:

Where does the department of sport get its money? I was under the impression ducac was one of the capitated bodies along with Su, GSu, CSC and something else. THe sports centre is run by Dept of Sport (DOS) not DUCAC. Ducacs offices are inside the sports centre though. So if you want to speak to ducac about a club matter, you presumably, have to be a member of the gym. ducac also gets money from the pav profits. is DOS another capitated body? or does it recieve all revenue from reg fee?

As from when the centre has opened They get the money from membership/sales rental etc and thats it not a penny from the college.
Think your being a bit silly now about saying that you need membership to speak to DUCAC.
Also why would they let staff in for free???Staff are there 2nd largest income after students!!!UL gets huge amounts of funding from the goverment TCD does not.

Moorsy

Jonnykitedude wrote:

Also why would they let staff in for free???Staff are there 2nd largest income after students!!!UL gets huge amounts of funding from the goverment TCD does not.

It would be easier to attract staff, benefit for current staff, appreciation. The lost goes on. Staff should not be seen as a place where money can be made, they’re an essential part of the college and should get good treatment. Anyway there all old academics I would be worried if the new gym was hoping that staff would be the second largest market for the gym.

Jonnykitedude

I have to laugh.............where do you expect them to make money to run the building,pay staff wages,buy new equipment,pay heating water and other items???

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Jonnykitedude wrote:

Also why would they let staff in for free???Staff are there 2nd largest income after students!!!UL gets huge amounts of funding from the goverment TCD does not.

a healthy workplace has long-term cost-savings for an organisation. Less time off work, need to pay for other staff to cover for ill staff members etc.

it's a fairly obvious thing that is done in a lot of non-public sector companies... a preventative medicine style of health care.

gilroyb

so fees paid by unpaid students (either registration and/or membership fees) should be used to subsidise staff who are already paid by fees derived from students attendance at the university?

How about students get it for free, and staff are forced to pay for everyone? This will mean that new students will be attracted to the university by the facilities, increasing the academic pool of students as well as the number and quality of people to play on college teams? This would have the effect of generally improving the universities reputation and standing. The staff could then trade on this improved reputation when presenting academic findings or moving jobs. It will be much better for them than the few quid they lose on fees.

*Warning: taking this post seriously could be bad for your health. It is simply meant to show that a case can be made for giving subsidies to any group over another, especially in a university environment. It's probably best that as long as students are paying their way, that staff do as well.

I laughed about the DUCAC comment..

to put your fears at rest, you don't have to be a member to drop up.
Have also been using the lift to go there - as a tribute to all the time I had to trudge up the many, many flights of stairs in house 27!

King.Penguin

Jonnykitedude wrote:

I have to laugh.............where do you expect them to make money to run the building,pay staff wages,buy new equipment,pay heating water and other items???

are you involved with the department of sport?

I think the staff should pay for the facilities. 300 euro a year is nothing to them. Nor 500. Maybe post-docs should be excused or subsidised.

now for students, I still think the sports centre is sub-par, badly organised and not deserved of high membership fees.

Using the gym tonight for the first time... expecting it to be very much like the old, though I don't think the tvs are in yet.

Male streaker just ran through the girls cricket match..

Nietzschean

gilroyb wrote:

so fees paid by unpaid students (either registration and/or membership fees) should be used to subsidise staff who are already paid by fees derived from students attendance at the university?

I must say i'm liking the logic, by that logic postgrads should be given it for free over most others. Most of us arn't funded by anything to do with funds given for UG teaching, or any such thing. Our grants pay fees to the college for our deskspace that we use, then the college controls the IP of our research, and also gets most of the royalties. So really its worth far more to the college(and i do believe ARAM fund distribution stuff refelected this) to get more postgrads with nice free gym facilties than ug's? (and by correlation staff that are good enough to encourage the postgrads to go there and supervise them, also bringing in their own grants).

kev wrote:

I think the staff should pay for the facilities. 300 euro a year is nothing to them. Nor 500.

How do you know that? alot of staff have higher costs than us, kids/playschool/mortgage/etc... as roundtower pointed out alot of companies viewing such complexity in people's lives are providing subsidized/free gym facilities for staff in a bid to keep them in decent health. Which brings the college income....

as regards fairness, subsidized gym for staff wouldn't be unreasonable then, as i suspect one way or another it'll be subsidized for ug's..

King.Penguin

How many staff members in your department have young kids and all that ****? Few? None?

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

How many staff members in your department have young kids and all that ****? Few? None?

Off hand, of those that would possibly use the gym, all of them bar 1 or 2....

King.Penguin

Nietzschean wrote:

Off hand, of those that would possibly use the gym, all of them bar 1 or 2....

lol

yeah whatever ian. 300 euro won't even buy you a playstation now adays. 300 euro for membership to a gym on your doorstep is great value for anyone whether you're a college lecturer or bin man.

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

lol

Aye that was also a pretty small figure, off hand of academic staff i've ran into lets say in the past week. That i'm aware of their status, all except one(which is about 6/7) have young kids.

yeah whatever ian. 300 euro won't even buy you a playstation now adays. 300 euro for membership to a gym on your doorstep is great value for anyone whether you're a college lecturer or bin man.

Dude that so makes my point, you know how many of them have ps3's or expensive home kit? none. Everyone i know who has a ps3 is an undergrad....

King.Penguin

I find the idea of a maths lecturer playing the ps3 rather funny. I'd say they'd be more wii-people.

xeduCat

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZOHnZNaBc

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

I find the idea of a maths lecturer playing the ps3 rather funny. I'd say they'd be more wii-people.

you know i'm in computer science yeah?

King.Penguin

Nietzschean wrote:

you know i'm in computer science yeah?

No

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

No

well there ye go, learn something new every day eh ?

King.Penguin

yeah, how's that working out for you? are you in the fancy new building llyod i think it's called?

Nietzschean

King.Penguin wrote:

yeah, how's that working out for you? are you in the fancy new building llyod i think it's called?

i will be soon, only spend some of my time there at the moment, in the o reilly. And good research >>> undergradness

TX123

havnt been in yet but in the mens changing rooms are there shower cubicles or is it communal. as in a big barage of naked men having a scrub.