Pc gone bust, upgrading...

BlitzKrieg

Soo my Pc stopped working yesterday...another in a long line of problems to strike it.

Thus I decided instead of sending it into repairs again and/or finding out whats died on me and need replacing I've decided to upgrade parts of the machine, the ones I believe causing the current error, and also the ones that are in need of updates.

Soo the problem is no matter what monitor i connect to my pc it wont display an image, the monitor says its connected to something and I tested this on two monitors...both of which work on my mac.

So my first choice is that the graphics card is bust.

But I checked my vga port on the motherboard itself...that also presented the same problem. So its my motherboard which is bust.


The reality is I dont know. I'm thinking of replacing those two parts with the following:

XFX GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI, 560/1400Mhz

Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3, P965, Socket-775, ATX, SATAII, GbLAN, DDR2, 1xPCI-Ex16


but I have a few questions

1) would it be safe to assume this will fix the monitor issue?

2) Will I need to reformat my hard drive and loose all my data if I put in a new motherboard?

3) is there any other compatability issues I should be watching out for?

4) would the above be good choices in keeping me somewhat technically capable for another 2-3 years of gaming etc.

awhir

wait afew weeks the new 86** series is coming out so that will be a better upgrade then he 8600gt.

you will most like have to refromat since windows may want you to first reregister your copy(doesnt like you changeing parts) and you may have driver probelms.

the ds3 is a good mobo but i would reccomend also gettin a e6420 or e6320 with i.

Fanny Cradock

You don't necessarily have to format. 8T8 provided a link in this thread that could prove useful to you if you.

I'd heartily recommend the 7600GT as a fantastic lower range graphics card. However, You may also consider getting the x1950pro which is a better (but more expensive) alternative.

BlitzKrieg

cheers for that info.

The only problem right now is I cant get access to anything in my computer so I wont be able to make those changes before hand...but if I understand what you are saying correctly, I only need to reinstall windows. I wont most likely loose any of my files/programs (some might need reinstalling I guess)

My biggest worry right now is compatability.

I have a pentium 4 processor but I dont know if it will fit in with the new motherboard I am eyeing. Not to mention 100 other possible problems.

Then of course there's the fear that the problem I am suffering right now has nothing to do with either of the parts I am replacing.

(and a tiny final detail is I cant afford alot so I wont be picking up any graphics cards over 200 euros.)

the_syco

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Soo the problem is no matter what monitor i connect to my pc it wont display an image, the monitor says its connected to something and I tested this on two monitors...both of which work on my mac.

So my first choice is that the graphics card is bust.

But I checked my vga port on the motherboard itself...that also presented the same problem. So its my motherboard which is bust.

Did you check the monitor on a working PC or laptop? I ask as its unclear if you've tested it, and monitors do go blink.

BlitzKrieg

I have 2 monitors and a mac so when they didnt work with the pc I hooked them both up to the mac and as you can see from this post they are working fine. I'm pretty sure its not my graphics card that is bust (but if i am upgrading something I need to get it changed anyway...its an old 9600) So i'm thinking its the motherboard because the pc seems to be working...its just not showing up on the monitor.


ATI x1600 or GF 7600GT?

plonk

Ive a Pentium d950 in my ds3 and I had a p4 640 in it previously so which cpu do you have

8T8

If you have a P4 CPU it must be socket 775 in order to work in the new motherboard otherwise it will not.

This is what socket 478 looks like for older generation P4's that has the pins on the CPU.

This is what socket 775 looks like where the pins where shifted to the mainboard on the newer P4's.

Also if you look on the P4 it should give the ID of it a 5 character codec called the SPEC you look it up here and it will tell you the type of CPU you have.

Once you know what type of motherboard the CPU support then you can decide on the graphics card because PCI-Express support is rare for socket 478 CPU's.

awhir

i would wait a week for the new 8600 serises.its the new version of what your buying and should be pritty cheap.

BlitzKrieg

is it possible to know from my current motherboard type (I'm having problems getting the fan off my processor at the moment (some wierd ass way to release it)

MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO., LTD MS-7211 1.00

EDIT: found it on a website, my motherboard supports Intel Pentium 4 / Prescott (LGA 775) processor so logically my processor must be a 775 then.

so danger sort of averted in that area.

I dont know why people keep mentioning 8600 series when I named the 7600 card in my first post...I cant afford the higher priced ones.

unless I missed something here?

8T8

Yeah you have a socket 775 P4 so your okay with the new motherboard just so you know that it takes DDR-2 RAM as well. The RAM in the MS-7211 is DDR & not compatible though you can get motherboards which support DDR.

As for all the GeForce 8 talk you are right you wont be able to afford one of those anyway this X1650XT is the best buy for €127 plus it's passively cooled so no noise to deal with (performance is on par with a 7600GT but the X1650XT has better image quality).

BlitzKrieg

cheers for the help.

Soo I will need to buy new ram? (bollocks) if I went with this mobo.


I have better track record with radeon cards, so I will go with 1650 like you suggested. No point changing to geforce after the crap they put me through with the geforce 4 mx.

BlitzKrieg

well it seems with all the compatability issues I am having between my auld machine and all the new hardware requirements.

would it be worth making the tech spec jump and buy this bundle:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=313413

and a half decent graphics card.

mainly most of my hardware will be incompatable with any sort of new motherboard, (only the board I have supports ddr400 ram) and any half decent graphics card needs pci-express, and I dont have that on my board.

So choice 1:


Buy the same motherboard again...will only cost me $50 but should in theory fix my current problem. But doesnt protect me against more problems

or 300-400 for amd dual core amd athlon, 2 gig of ram and a better graphics card (not top of the range but enough) it fixes the current problem and future proofs me against a few more. But its costly enough for me with my lacking of funds.

BlitzKrieg

thank god i didnt go with choice 1

turns out its my graphics card that was f*cked. Took it out and my pc came back to life.

this doesnt change anything though, to buy a decent agp card today costs quite abit and to buy a motherboard to support pci express would require me to buy ddr2 ram and probably a processor too.

so its the above bundle + a radeon X1650X

though with the pc working, I can hold off for a week, and see if the prices change with the new card releases.

Anti

Have you tried adverts.ie There is uaually a few agp cards floating around there. And will allow you to save a bit longer and enable you to buy better hardware. and not just a quick fix.

BlitzKrieg

you to save a bit longer and enable you to buy better hardware. and not just a quick fix.

would upgrading to a dual core and a ati x1650x with 2 gigs of ram be a quick fix?

looking on dell they charge twice what I would be paying for a pc with a ati x1300x and 1 gig of ram (and a lower spec dual core)

I wouldnt consider it a quick fix.


just to finalize the kit i am eyeing is:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311935

and

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327731

Fanny Cradock

If you are going down the dual core route, I would suggest getting the x1950pro, which I would think is more in-line with your processor. A Club 3D x1950 pro is only €160 at hardwareversand.de. There is also an ASUS version available for €145

BlitzKrieg

my limit is pretty much 400...at the moment I am 380 with the above selection.

Dont know if I can stretch to the X1950X.

have to wait till I get my money together and see if I can stretch a bit more.

but i'll keep it in mind.

8T8

If you want to keep the P4;
€65 for 1GB of DDR2

€122 Gigabyte P965 chipset

€127 ATI X1650XT passive cooler

€53 Zalman CPU cooler to keep things quiet

Total €367 + the option to use Intel Core 2 CPU's.

Or forgo the option to use Core 2 CPU's and get this MSI board for €55 which will drop the price to €298.

As for the AMD upgrade kit that is pretty decent & would be a step up over the P4 you have.

Fanny Cradock

BlitzKrieg wrote:

my limit is pretty much 400...at the moment I am 380 with the above selection.

Dont know if I can stretch to the X1950X.

have to wait till I get my money together and see if I can stretch a bit more.

but i'll keep it in mind.

Yeah, I've been on a tight budget before. Actually, make that every time.
Hope the build works out

BlitzKrieg

Total €367 + the option to use Intel Core 2 CPU's.

hmm for 10 euro more I get a dual core,

but is there something i should know about the card I am eyeing?

cause compared to the other cards mentioned here and cheaper

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kcp.asp?sku=318805&sku=330212&sku=332301&sku=327731&sku=328329

it seems the best. Unless of course there is a big leap in quality between pro and xt? (though the pro supports open gl 2.0 and the xt doesnt.

If its just an extra game putting up the price, then I dont really want it.

TerrorFirmer

The X1600 and X1650Pro are pretty weak cards. I would go for the X1650XT over the 7600GT but either will be fine and definatly light years ahead of your 9600.

If you're not a gamer then it's fine, but if you are then I'd definately avoid the X1600 or the Pro model, seeing as you're actually doing an upgrade that you want to last as long as possible within your budget.

edit: As you can see in the link below, in the game tested here the 7600GT is nearly 100% faster then the X1600Pro...

Also notice how the fairly aged X700Pro is also faster then the X1600....shame you haven't got a pci-e mobo as someone is selling one of these for 20 euro over on adverts.

Fanny Cradock

You might get some performance comparisons off this VGA chart

awhir

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=294810

THIS IS 1 OF THE FASTED CARD ON THE MARKET FOR VERY CHEAP.

BlitzKrieg

Fanny Cradock wrote:

You might get some performance comparisons off this VGA chart

cant find this card on that list

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=328329

The good news is, I found someone to buy my old parts so upgrading has become alot cheaper for me. So it is possible for me to oogle some of the higher up cards (not by far, but by enough.)

TerrorFirmer

BlitzKrieg wrote:

cant find this card on that list

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=328329

The good news is, I found someone to buy my old parts so upgrading has become alot cheaper for me. So it is possible for me to oogle some of the higher up cards (not by far, but by enough.)

It would be about the same or even better then the 7600GT.

DanGerMus

just get the ds3 1gb of ram and an x1950pro. then in a couple of months upgrade to a core 2duo when they only cost €100 or so. just checked and with cheap ram only comes to 359+postage from komplett. FYI shop around you'll do a lil better at dabs.ie 342.07 total inc postage and all.
your cpu will carry over as will your HD as long as you only have one. also you cant reinstall windows without wiping you HD.
Also same build will only cost €333 inc postage from www.hardwareversand.de and for that price i'd throw in an extra gig of ram for 51.58. and its PC6400 so it'll do you well.
As for the x1650 and 7600 i think we should all be honest here and say they will not do him in even one year if new games will be played an x1950 will last 2-3 years for sure.

BlitzKrieg

as will your HD as long as you only have one.

I have two?

Is this a problem I overlooked?

DanGerMus

Yup i thought i should give you the heads up. The ds3 only has one IDE connection. which means only two ide devices can be attached ie one HD and one cd/dvdROM or two HDs. your only option would be to get a SATA drive to replace a hard drive or a cd/dvd rom. As you may have this problem with alot of new boards my advice would be to purchase a small SATA hd they can be had very cheap and install windows on that then attach one of your old drives and copy all info from that to the new drive. then attache you other drive and carry on as usual. you will lose one of your old drive though. what sizes are they?
alternately:
The abit AB9 is also based on intel965 and has two ide connections. Although i'm not sure if the board is as good there cant be much of a difference, only 2 euro more expensive. and would save you the trouble of new drives aswell.

BlitzKrieg

*yawn*

my god I need a checklist of things that wont work with an update.

So I need a new hard drive aswell...

thankfully the cost is being pushed down as every part I need to replace I sell the old version to a friend.

Is there anything else I should be looking out for?

honestly I will have sold my entire pc except the tower by the end of this.


there are no compatability issues with power units or dvd burners I should be looking out for?

8T8

Nope no compatibility issues, succumbing to the upgrade temptation I see

You don't really need a new hard drive if your current one is IDE as it is cheaper to buy a SATA DVDRW drive if you do not want the IDE HD sharing the controller with the DVD (though there is no technical reason not do so) or if you have more than one IDE HD.

DanGerMus

welcome to the world of upgradeing your pc. Technology just moves so fast dude.

BlitzKrieg

this showed up today on komplett (people were saying the new cheap cards were on the way)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=334640

Would it be a good alternative?

I ask cause if I buy that i can actually afford a pentium dual core 1 gig of ram, a new hard drive, and a somewhat decent board.

TerrorFirmer

I wouldn't bother. Its supposed to be a very weak card, much like the budget cards of its predecessors like the 6500, 7500 etc, all weak cards that fell between low and mid range. Obviously it would be better then those cards but you get the point...

BlitzKrieg

think i might have it:

Taking in all your advice (and my own slogginf on reading up things) and my budget

my choice will probably be:


327806 ABIT IL9 PRO, Intel 945P, Socket-775
- ATX, SATAII, DDR2, GbLAN, PCI-Ex16

330167 Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8GHz Socket
- LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan

334246 Samsung SpinPoint S166 160GB SATA2
- 8MB 7200RPM

308934 Corsair Value S. PC5300 DDR2 1024MB
- Kit w/two matched Value Select 512MB


328327 HIS Radeon X1650XT 256MB, iSilence II,
- PCI-Express, GDDR3, 2xDVI/Tv-Out/HDCP


it comes to exactly 512 (inc. shipping), which is fine because a friend is buying my old parts of me bringing the total down to 400 thereabouts (or less if I ship the rest of my old parts)

it isnt a top end machine by far, but its a leap by a mile from my old machine and its open ended enough to ensure that the next time i need to upgrade I wont be stuck. (or did I again overlook something?)

TerrorFirmer

You could always keep your P4 and stave off upgrading to dual core right now. If its 775 then I'm assuming it's probably half decent like 3 or 3.2Ghz...I have a 3.2Ghz in my second machine and it's perfectly fine for games like Company of Heroes at high settings and other day to day stuff like encoding and ripping too, I'm going to upgrade it to a c2d eventually but I don't see a pressing need right now as it does what I want it to do fairly well. So you could hold off that for awhile....just if you're looking to trim things down. And pick up a cheaper Dual core in a few months time when new stuff comes out, or when people are selling their old stuff.

Are you doing alot of overclocking? If you are then never mind but if not, another cheapish route would be:

ABIT IP-95
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=329792

2Gb Value Ram
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=301116

Fatality 7600GT
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=329670

Total : 320

So if you kept your P4, the Fatality 7600GT is a great card, and as a bonus is passively cooled so - no noise at all. It costs a few euro more then the X1650XT but would probably take the lead ever so slightly. And having 2gb of ram would be nice too, save you from upping it later.

BlitzKrieg

ABIT IP-95
http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=329792

does that board have 2 ata ports? it says it does but it also says it can only support 2 devices...though usually with 2 ata ports you can support 4?

if that can support 4 ata ports I will defitnally buy that one. and can put off the whole mess of getting new hard drives etc until i have a bit more money.

BlitzKrieg

i swear this is the last post on this.


two quick questions to finalize my purchases.

1.) I see a few motherboards have 133 ATA ports for hard drives (which I need) but they have (raid) after them, I asume this is for setting up hard drives as raid 1 or 0...can I use my two current ones for that, or will there be a hell load of compatability issues? I want to avoid the problems of reinstalling windows (using the guide on page 1) and also access the information on my current hard drives...I will upgrade to better ones, but its not as much of a priority as the other parts.

2.) I'm selling my old parts onto a friend who has been unable to buy a new pc in far too many years, his machine is a very old pentium 2, I'll be giving him pretty much all the parts to a pc except a hard drive/graphics card/psu/case. He intends to buy a new graphics card and hard drive i think. But I believe he is keeping the old case and PSU. Is there any warnings/tips I should pass on to him for putting this together. He only wants a machine that can play half life 2...which mine did, hence the ease of selling it on to him.

Fanny Cradock

BlitzKrieg wrote:

2.) I'm selling my old parts onto a friend who has been unable to buy a new pc in far too many years, his machine is a very old pentium 2, I'll be giving him pretty much all the parts to a pc except a hard drive/graphics card/psu/case. He intends to buy a new graphics card and hard drive i think. But I believe he is keeping the old case and PSU. Is there any warnings/tips I should pass on to him for putting this together. He only wants a machine that can play half life 2...which mine did, hence the ease of selling it on to him.

Off the top of my head:

Make sure his PSU is of sufficient power for the new components;
Check that the case is suitable for the motherboard form factor;
Might be a good time to clear nay dust and gunk lodged in the heatsinks or fans;
Ground yourselves when installing the parts.

awhir

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=912