Penalty Points question

wb

I could probably post this in the cars section too, but hopefully one of you will know from experience.

The story so far....

May 2006: Took a left turn on a road (at the time I had a moped and not a motorbike). A garda pulled me in an pointed to a sign stating that you can't turn left between the hours of 7-10 am. I apologised, produced my tax and insurance, and was told to be on my way. Thought that was the end of the matter.

Sep 2006: Sold the moped and got a Yamaha FZR250

Feb 2007: Got a summons in the door to appear in court to answer the above accusation

April 2007: Went to court, got fined €70 and again thought this was the end of the matter

Today: Got a letter in the door telling me that I now have 3 penalty points.

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First of all, I thought the amount of points was harsh. Should I have been given an on the spot fine first? I thought you get 'harsher' penalty points if convicted in court. My case went straight to court, and I never got an on the spot fine.


Secondly, the licence I have now is a different category. Do the points apply to the new category, even thought the offence happened on a moped licence?

Any help would be appreciated as I'm fuming at how this has dragged on and gotten worse, all over a very trivial mistake.

jhegarty

Did the Judge order 3 point for you... if not someone somewhere made a mistake ...

wb

jhegarty wrote:

Did the Judge order 3 point for you... if not someone somewhere made a mistake ...

Nope. I have the letter from the court too. A simple fine of €70. No mention of points.

Bradidup

Sounds very heavy, I have got away with worse on bikes. If they are going to hit you for points they would have said it there and then, I always ask them. The offense you mentioned sounded like if it would have been an "on the spot" offense and they usually give you notification unless you ignored it. Sometimes they can do you for "driving without due care and attention" or "careless driving" which will land you in court and possible points.

wb

The actual offence was 'not obeying a road sign in accordance with....' etc.

Bradidup

wb wrote:

The actual offence was 'not obeying a road sign in accordance with....' etc.

Im not well up on the latest offenses added but i find it odd that you were not notified. I would double check with the clerk in the court and make sure it wasnt a mistake.

jhegarty

wb wrote:

Nope. I have the letter from the court too. A simple fine of €70. No mention of points.

Well the points are down to the Judge (its up to 3 points in court) so I would send them a copy of the document and tell them the made a mistake...

I presume you have nothing else outstanding they may have fallen with bad timing ?

wb

Thanks everyone

jhegarty wrote:

I presume you have nothing else outstanding they may have fallen with bad timing ?

Nope, nothing else outstanding. In fact this was the first and only time I've ever had any problem with the guards or with my driving.

Hotblack Desiato

On the spot fines don't apply to all penalty points offences, i.e. you only get the chance to avoid court with certain offences.
Don't they have to issue the summons within six months of the offence though? You should have got a solicitor when you received the summons.
If conviction for that offence automatically carries penalty points then you are screwed and if you didn't challenge the summons at the time, I doubt you can appeal at this stage.

Moral of the story - watch out for signs and especially Gardai

Bradidup

People forget to take note of the identity of the cop, ie Dunlaoghaire cops would be F (followed by two or three didgits). Its easier for reference if you wanted to go down to the station and dispute a matter. Its getting more difficult now as they now use hand held computers instead of note books. They dont issue anything on paper when your stopped with their new system.

wb

Don't they have to issue the summons within six months of the offence though?

The summons can be issued up to a year. The funny thing is though, the judge said a fine will be sufficient, and sent me on my way (have the letter). No-one mentioned penalty points until I recieved this notice a few days ago :mad:

Bradidup wrote:

People forget to take note of the identity of the cop, ie Dunlaoghaire cops would be F (followed by two or three didgits). Its easier for reference if you wanted to go down to the station and dispute a matter. Its getting more difficult now as they now use hand held computers instead of note books. They dont issue anything on paper when your stopped with their new system.

I actually have the name of the Garda, so I may drop in to the station and see.

theKED

Intersting topic!

Just out of curiosity, when you receive penalty points on a motorbike licence (Provisional) do they effect your car licence?
i.e when a car insurance company asks you, have you ever been convicted of driving offences or received penalty points?


Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question?

galwaytt

Penalty points affect all your licence(s).

Actually, probably a time to point this out - the piece of paper in your pocket, aka your 'licence', is actually nothing of the sort. All that piece of paper is, is a representation of what's on your driver's file with the Co Co (or whomever...). That driver file is your actual licence. And that's where your points 'are'....

So, if you start out with a bike licence at 17, then get a car one at 18, and you happen to have two pieces of paper...............you don't have two licences, which is what prompted your question. All you have are two separate pieces of paper, from different points in time, relating to your driver file.

When you go to renew them - lets assume they fell for renewal on the same date, you'd only get 1 back, but with both bits of info thereon. Penalty points attached to either one of your previous, separate bits, would appear on the new one.

You may think this is a downer - actually, it's irrelevant. Even though you may send/give your actual 'piece of paper' (even a 'clean' one) to your ins co when you take out cover, they check the actual driver file with the issuing authority - they don't just look on the back of your 'licence' to see if it's clean. The Authority then tell them if you have points, or not.

So, moral of story: get points, you have them 'on everything'.

dogpile

Bradidup wrote:

People forget to take note of the identity of the cop, ie Dunlaoghaire cops would be F (followed by two or three didgits).

Or 6 letters