Failure when lifting

Diamondmaker

Hi

Just wondering when going for a new weight, that you know you cannot yet do a full rep at, in any particuar excercise/lift.
Should you start at the failure weight and do as many as you can, then finish your set on your normal working weight

or

Do your normal workout and attempt the failure weight at the end.

Obviously it is easier to do more of the FW if done 1st.

Advice please.
Thanks
DM

hunnymonster

I can't help you with an answer but it's actually a question I thought about yesterday myself. By the time I'd had a shower and eaten, I'd forgotten to actually ask it :rolleyes:

Diamondmaker

Im thinking fail 1st, as you will have stretched and broken the muscle fibres more than you would be capable of at the end?
Then work thro the burn on the normal reps. But I am very intersted to hear the other opinions and get the low down........

davyjose

I'd have thought fail first too. But there's proabably an in between; I always go for a weight where I can not quite get 8 reps, on the 3rd/4th set

cousin_borat

It's not a simple black or white solution. If you're talking about some of the big compound exercises you may have a particular sticking point which prevents you from lifting the weight. This may need to be addressed in order to up your current max lift.

For example with benching I had a problem raising the bar the first couple of inches from my chest. As soon as I got it a couple of inches up I was always fine. Way I found around this was to bench in a squat cage with the safety pins at varying heights and just push the weight from those start off points. This helped train safely at the sticking point.

Sometimes you need to work on supplemental muscles that support the compound lift. For example Hip Flexors when you're squatting are often neglected and strengthening them can help big time.

As for jumping straight into max weight, big time no there. Always do 3 or 4 warm up sets, avoid risk of injury and also to get the blood flowing so you can lift big when you get to working properly.

Good luck

cowzerp

In the course for international sports sciences association qualifications-they do not advocate training to failure at all, the science behind this is simple,
if you train for example at 70kg bench press to failure often enough, your actually training your nervous system to shut down when it reaches this nervous threshold-if you stop barely before failure, you still get the work done but have not let this negative nervous function kick in. what should happen is, your muscles become stronger and your nervous system threshold should increase to suit this-then when you up the weight your nervous system will not be worried about you getting hurt-if your nervous threshhold was set at 40kg and whatever reps-it would reach this threshold very easily if you went up to 45kg for example-train for success not failure

cowzerp

cousin_borat wrote:

For example with benching I had a problem raising the bar the first couple of inches from my chest. As soon as I got it a couple of inches up I was always fine. Way I found around this was to bench in a squat cage with the safety pins at varying heights and just push the weight from those start off points. This helped train safely at the sticking point.
Good luck

The best thing to do here is to strenghten your muscles in this range with a lighter weight till you catch back up to your desired weight-otherwise your just lifting heavy for the sake of it-bench pressing should be done through the full range to get the maximum results..

cousin_borat

Hi Cowzerp, you're dead right. In fact I tried the small ROM technique as a supplemental on light days (as well as controlled negatives) to normal bench pressing on a regular chest day where I was using a manageable weight for full ROM.

It helped me out, as with all alot of aspects with lifting it varies with the individual, just sharing my own personal experience.

cowzerp

Good man-keep it up

mloc

I personally warm up with a very light weight and then usually pyramid my weights, that is, increase them until I get down to 4-6 reps max depending and then decrease them until i can do 10 reps... for example with bent over rows

20kg/20 reps
60kg/12
80kg/10
90kg/6
80kg/10

Last 3 sets there are to failure, more or less.

Dragan

For me, it depends an awful lot on the individual trainee and the system they are using.

If i am doing a body part split then i will tend to train to failure on the last set of each workout. I am happy enough the 5 to 6 days rest in between session will allow my muscles and relatively affected nervous system recovery.

If i am doing total body train I will generally still train to failure on the last set, but it is important to note here that i am doing 1 excercise per muscle group, two for back and i will only train to failure on ONE of those back excercises.

I have always had sucess with these methods because i am very careful with my diet and recovery!!

There is also a MASSIVE different between training to muscular failure over 8 to 12 reps and training to failure in single lifts!

If you expand a bit more on your training style you will probably get more specific answers to suit your circumstances.

Hanley

cowzerp wrote:

-bench pressing should be done through the full range to get the maximum results..

I can't let that go. If your goal is a bigger bench, then working it thru limited ROM exercises is probably one of the best things you can do. If your goal is a bigger chest, then getting a stronger bench should be pretty high on the lift of priorities.

OP, I might be mis-understanding the question, but are you saying that you're trying to do a weight that you know you can't?

Diamondmaker

Hanly:
Nah its not a weight I cant do, its a weight I cant do 4 x 8 of.
I can maybe do 4 or 6 at a time, I can do 4 x 8 at the weight below this. Whats the best weight to work up to the next weight?

I like the pyramid idea as pointed out, it similar to how I do my fitness training......run sprint, jog run , sprint jog etc...I find this very effective for stamina and overall fitness.

Hanley

Diamondmaker wrote:

Hanly:
Nah its not a weight I cant do, its a weight I cant do 4 x 8 of.
I can maybe do 4 or 6 at a time, I can do 4 x 8 at the weight below this. Whats the best weight to work up to the next weight?

I like the pyramid idea as pointed out, it similar to how I do my fitness training......run sprint, jog run , sprint jog etc...I find this very effective for stamina and overall fitness.

Ahhh ok I get you now...

What I would usualy do is say I'm trying to squat 160kg for 8 reps, I'd start with 150kg 3x6 on week 1, then 150kg 1x8 on week 2, 160kg 3x6 on week 3 and on week 4 I'd go all out and attempt 160kg x8