Old cars and child safety

Hifive

Has anyone here got any thoughts on using a classic to ferry the kids?
I've been using my 1974 classic as my only car for a few months now although mission control has a family car for long journeys.
last Monday I very nearly got blindsided by a Mondeo while travelling with my 4 yr old. She is always in a child seat but its in the front passenger seat as the 2 yr old is often in the back in her own child seat and there isn't really room for another one behind me, as I have my seat all the way back and the rear seat is tiny.
The near miss got me thinking about ABS, air bags, pre tensioners, safety cages etc, etc.
I've really been enjoying using my classic and don't want to buy a runabout just for crèche runs.
Suggestions number 1 ?

RoundyMooney

That's a very good point Hifive.

I too would like to hear the input of others on this, (from a dad of one, and one on the way )

bo-bo

while im not a parent, i have found that drving a classic is not one of the safer modes of transport available. i suppose that proper maintenance of your vehicle is important but you may also wish to consider uprated brakes and other such features to improve handeling.

BrianD3

Very hard to answer this. The only thing to say really is that it's up to you to evaluate the risks and do what you feel is right. It may be the case that you are a little "spooked" after what happened with the Mondeo and this has caused worry where there was none before.

As regards passive safety, if I was to have a crash in a classic car I'd probably pick a non rusty Merc W116 or a non rusty Jag XJ6. Big heavy cars designed with safety cells and crumple zones. No airbags obviously. I have seen S1-S3 XJs take big impacts and protect their occupants well. Also the car was/is renowned as being a great vehicle for banger racing. Take from that what you will.

Another point which may be of interest - the ADAC did a EuroNCAP crash test with a Mk4 Golf, Mk2 Golf and a seventies Beetle. The Beetle actually performed slightly better than the Mk2 which was a surprise. However the outcome would have been that the Beetle driver would just have been "less dead" in that impact. However in a slower speed crash perhaps the better protection compared to the Mk2 would have made a difference.

Bradidup

A little over ten years ago my mother regrettably sold off her old 1967 beatle and ended up getting a Volvo 240 because she was concerned for the safety of her grand children.

Eric318

As far as I am concerned, driving a classic makes me reduce my speed and be a lot more careful, giving way to all nutters, simply because I dont want my rustfree Jag to get damaged. My view if that this fact already improves my safety in an exponential manner (E=1/2M2...).

Now how would my classic protect me if a nutter was to hit me... Somehow I figure that the Jag would buffer quite well...

I hear that this highspeed crash Jag saw its driver and only occupier come out alive:

bo-bo

Eric318 wrote:

As far as I am concerned, driving a classic makes me reduce my speed and be a lot more careful, giving way to all nutters, simply because I dont want my rustfree Jag to get damaged. My view if that this fact already improves my safety in an exponential manner (E=1/2M2...).

Now how would my classic protect me if a nutter was to hit me... Somehow I figure that the Jag would buffer quite well...

I hear that this highspeed crash Jag saw its driver and only occupier come out alive:

agree with you on that, i also fimly believe that the experience of driving a classic improves your driving of a contemporary car

3ps

That's part of the reason I chose Mercs to drive.

I once had a nutter(ess) in a Micra nearly hit me on a back round, head on.
We managed to avoid each other and when stopped I realised that her car was shorter than my bonnet... so I felt safe enough.

I also feel that I drive more slowly and am more aware of what is going on... as I need to plan my moves better driving a slower car.

If somebody hits you at 60 yuo are going to die no matter what... so overall I feel safe in my car.

Would I bring the kids in it... no not all the time but occassionally yes.

tyney

how safe is a child in the 3rd row of seats in a people carrier if it is hit from behind? It's about being aware of the risk. Classic drivers would be aware of the risks. Zafira drivers probably assume that the rear seats are safe a few inches from the rear screen just because the car is modern.

Ballykine43

Yes we love our classics and its great to get out in them. BUT we do have to remember that they are vehicles from a different era. Some can travel very quickly, few can stop in anything like the distance we are accustomed to in more modern machinery with ABS, broader tyres etc. Add to that awareness that cornering and general handling, are things to be worked at and dont just happen. Do we realise the absolute need for hands on maintenance and adjustments at what now seem very short service intervals. Do we remember that we don't have airbags and that our safety belts are rather crude by modern standards. Can we honestly say our classics are safe for us each time we take them out and that we drive safely? If we can then we can look at how safe our passengers will be.
I suspect that children in properly fitted child seats, whether front or back are travelling in relative safety. We as drivers must be aware of the risks and put neither them nor ourselves at undue risk.

Hifive

Things I have done to maximise the safety of my classic.

Changed the brake fluid. (made a big difference to pedal "feel")
Checked all the brake lines, flexible hoses, pads, disc's and shoes.
Fitted rear seat belts and replaced front seat belts. (drivers side wouldn't always lock)
Keep an eye on tyre condition and pressure.
Tightened both front seat mountings which were found to be loose.

I try to drive carefully and anticipate other road users, probably more than I do when driving our modern car. When I'm driving that, I am sometimes "on autopilot" whereby the driving is just a function to make the thing go. Don't know if I'm explaining myself well there but you probably know what I mean .
In the Stag every trip is an event and I'm much more involved.

And lastly I feel like putting a big sign up at the back saying BACK OFF to discourage other drivers driving up my ass to get a good look at the car!! has anyone else experienced this?

bo-bo

Hifive wrote:

And lastly I feel like putting a big sign up at the back saying BACK OFF to discourage other drivers driving up my ass to get a good look at the car!! has anyone else experienced this?

a few times ive been overtaken by cars whom insist on driving along side me, gawping for as long as they can, even when i slow down :mad:

Ballykine43

Hello Hifive
Had my 2 1/2 year old grandson out in my Stag today. Your posting certainly made me watch out on the safety side of things.

Hifive

Ballykine43 wrote:

Hello Hifive
Had my 2 1/2 year old grandson out in my Stag today. Your posting certainly made me watch out on the safety side of things.

Ballykine43,
Glad to hear you and your grandson are enjoying your stag.
As I mentioned in my op I do have some safety concerns but I don't think it will stop me or my family using the car. My two girls absolutely love riding in it and the two year old spends ages playing in it when its the garage. Its her V8 playpen!
We've now got a new two week old baby boy as well, (yawn) so it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of it.

mustang68

bo-bo wrote:

a few times ive been overtaken by cars whom insist on driving along side me, gawping for as long as they can, even when i slow down :mad:

This happened me coming down the N3 the other day, after about 20 secs of him far too close and not passing me out, I hit the brakes, hard. Think he got the message.

Few things I have done for safety:

Power disc brakes at the front now (replaced manual drums).
Bucket seats with headrest, replaced flat vinal seats that break necks in small accidents.
Four point harness replaced lapbelts.
new headlights

When I put in the seats I used big bolts and was very happy, but the other day I noticed that the bolts were sitting into very thin sheet metal, so I out in giant washers to give it strength. Moral: if you are making a safety upgrade make sure the underlying structure can support it.

ds20prefecture

Active safety - i.e. the ability to avoid an accident in the first place. Both my classics have excellent brakes, excellent visibility, good lights, adequate handling and good levels of grip. Neither have sufficient power to accelerate _away_ from trouble, and both suffer from a high degree of roll in extremes of handling. The GS suffers from terminal understeer, the DS is neutral but violent lift-off will provoke oversteer.

As with all cars, it is necessary to drive within the limits of the car and the conditions, which means you are by necessity slower than other traffic, except perhaps on the motorway where you are comfortably far from the car's limits. I agree completely with the point above about regular maintenance being probably the biggest single risk to active safety.

Passive safety: i.e. the ability for the car and its fittings to protect the occupant in the event of an accident. Both my classics have very strong frames around the passenger cell, with large front and rear crumple zones. Side impacts in the DS are reasonably well dealt with as the car has high, strong sills. However the doors themselves provide almost no protection at all. The roof on the DS is held by slender pillars, so a roll over would probably prove fatal. The GS is better in a roll-over but probably worse in a side impact.
Both cars have new seat belts fitted to factory-original (i.e. structurally correct) mount points. Both cars have toughened safety glass and laminated windscreens. Both cars have unbelievably hard and unyielding dashboards that you would very much like your face to avoid in an accident.

I regularly carry my 1 year old to creche in both cars, but this is city rush-hour traffic with very low relative speeds. If I was to carry them on the open roads I would chose my wife's Skoda.

Henry Ford III

Some good points here.

I think it's safe to say that in terms of passenger protection in the event of an impact, any classic car is likely to be inferior to a modern one.

The designs, rules, and safety considerations were from an entirely different era.

--amadeus--

I won't take the kids further than school / creche (a mile in town traffic) in my car. Reason? Small, no crumple zones, no belts in the back.

My previous car was a big old Merc 250S with safety cell and crumple zones, all round discs, the works. Built like a tank I was happy going anywhere with the kids in it. As said above it would buldoze most modern traffic out of teh way.

My major worry in a classic is always driving on motorways and dual carrigeways and having idiots pull out in front of you. 1.5 tons of merc on 40 yr old brakes will NOT decelerate as fast as a modern Focus!