Driving in the UK - My experience

r3nu4l

Scene-setting: I learned how to drive in Ireland and I've lived in England for the past 2.5 years.

I see a lot of people on boards.ie saying that the Irish are the worst drivers imaginable and that everything about England is so much better but my experience says that we're (the Irish) much better at some things than the English.

Motorways and dual carriageways: The English win hands down for using the overtaking lane as exactly that. When they have completed the overtake manouever they pull back into the driving lane. However when traffic is very busy, faster drivers sit in the overtaking lane for miles upon miles as they do in Ireland.

Tailgating: It's my firm belief that the Irish and English are just as bad as each other for tailgating. The difference being that the English tend to tailgate at much higher speeds in heavy traffic, for miles.

Indicators: I know that we all have multiple examples of people not using their indicators in Ireland but in England people very rarely use indicators when changing lanes on motorways and dual carriageways. The exception to this are the truckers who always use them, usually because they are pulling into the overtaking lave at 60 mph when everyone else there is doing 80+ mph. As a result when I'm driving into and out of work every day I have to be super-alert as to what the car in the next lane is doing because again, I find the English much more blasé about switching lanes with even the tiniest gap available to them, moreso than Irish drivers.

Speed: England has far, far more active speed cameras in action than England yet on the 75+ mile stretch from Bury St. Edmunds (A11) to London (via M11) there is only one camera and it has a hood over it saying "Not in use". The average speed on this road in moving traffic is about 80 mph, well above the speed limit. A lot of people do significantly higher speeds. I've been doing 90mph in my car (in the driving lane!) only to be passed by several cars all travelling at far greater speeds than me.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? I realise that Irish drivers have some terrible, terrible habits but to be honest, compared with English drivers we aren't that bad. For those of you who have driven for significant periods in the UK what do you think? Agree? Disagree?

ninty9er

As far as I'm concerned, once the driving test backlog is cleared and it becomes practical to take every provisional permit driver to court for driving without a licence...our motorways (3 lane, as there's still some 2 lane parts about) should have increased speed limits (approx. 200km/h) while dual carriageways should get just above the current motorway limit (maybe 140 km/h).

Being realistic...I'd imagine less than 1% of serious traffic accidents happen on motorways.

I haven't driven in France, but I've observed and it seems they adopt the tailgate position fulltime and use traffic lights correctly (i.e. they're on the clutch ready for the light to go green and don't slow unless amber is showing)

We're certainly not the worst, look to the Spanish islands for the worst thaat I've seen, then again, I've never been to Italy:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter

ninty9er wrote:

Being realistic...I'd imagine less than 1% of serious traffic accidents happen on motorways.

0.8% according to the NRA

ninty9er wrote:

We're certainly not the worst, look to the Spanish islands for the worst thaat I've seen, then again, I've never been to Italy:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I've driven in Spain and Italy and found them to be good drivers. They are compentent and confident drivers, unlike a lot of Irish drivers who are almost afraid of driving and seem to lack confidence behind the wheel.

I've also drive in London a lot and I find them to be similar to Irish drivers. The one difference is that they are ready to go once the traffic lights turn green!!

Gatster

Hmmm. Considering the amount of people and vehicles in England compared to the amount in Ireland, driving habits are proportionally much worse in Ireland I'd say. Also, you don't say where you are exactly in the UK (I'm presuming Norfolk way from the Bury St. Edmunds - London jaunt), driving styles vary across the country.

tabatha

i drive in england a bit and i have to agree that they do drive much faster on the motorways over there then they do here. on saying that, they drive far more carefully and slower in towns and villages. thats my experience.

r3nu4l

Gatster wrote:

Hmmm. Considering the amount of people and vehicles in England compared to the amount in Ireland, driving habits are proportionally much worse in Ireland I'd say. Also, you don't say where you are exactly in the UK (I'm presuming Norfolk way from the Bury St. Edmunds - London jaunt), driving styles vary across the country.

I drive in Bury St. Edmunds, Cambridge and London mostly and the style stays the same all the way there and back. I have to disagree with your statement about Irish drivers being proportionally worse, I'm not talking about a small percentage of drivers on this road driving like this, this is the average driver. The 'bad' drivers are worse, I was nearly killed last week by a driver pulling into my lane while I was passing him by.

If we were to use countrywide proportionality as an example then there must be some corner of England where every driver stricly obeys all rules of the road to make up for the shower in London and East Anglia

Also, English drivers are just as bad, if not worse than Irish drivers for using mobiles while driving.

I'm not for a second denying how bad Irish drivers can be but I do refute the idea that somehow we are so much inferior to everyone else. That's just so ill-informed imo.

galah

Scene-setting - I learned to drive in Germany, drove there for 6 years, then moved to Ireland, been here for 3 years (lived a couple of years out of Europe as well, won't count that), and did the old "Harwich to Holyhead" run through England several times.

My experience: The British are pretty bad when it comes to driving, but the Irish are still the worst. Ever. At least the British have some sort of driver education, and British roads are more policed (my experience anyway), with more speed camreas and all. So it's not as unpredictable as here, I find...

And while the Italian and French driving style seems to be chaotic, the Italians and French are actually aware of what's going on around them in traffic, and act accordingly if a touch ruthless - in Ireland, people just drive as they see fit, are not aware of anyone else on the road, and even if they were, they couldn't give a flying feck. Pair that with the most useless driver "education", and a whole lot of other issues (like the crap speed limit signs, state of roads, etcetc), and you can't help but wonder why not more people get killed on the roads every day.

corblimey

I have limited experience of driving in the UK, but the 2 things I've noticed are:

1. there's a lot more lane-changing on the motorways. I assume this is mostly drivers pulling out to overtake and back again, but I have seen a lot more incidents of under-taking, weaving in and out of traffic, etc.

2. the speed camera system is something of a joke. You get a prior warning, and then just have to obey the speed limit between 2 sections of the road. so everybody speeds along at will, then screeches back to the limit for 200 yards then back up to their chosen speed.

Fratton Fred

Like most countries, the majority of drivers are ok here, but what I’ve found is that the bad drivers here are really bad, to the point where I would claim there are some people on the road here that simply can not drive. (We’ve all seen them)

The only thing that really annoys me, is that people seem hate the thought of someone pulling in front of them, to the point where it can be difficult sometimes to merge with the traffic when joining the motorway because everyone is driving two feet from the car in front to prevent someone getting in front of them. This I too would put down to drivers here not being that aware of what is happening around them.

I don’t find it too bad here generally, but my wife passed her test in England two years ago and hadn’t driven here until moving back in August, she hates the roads here and I often have to tell her to calm down.

It would be interesting to here what the OP thinks about Irish drivers after driving in the UK for a while and then coming back.

BTW, the whole idea of a speed camera is to get people to slow down, not to catch them speeding, hence the signs.

WhiteWashMan

r3nu4l wrote:

Scene-setting: I learned how to drive in Ireland and I've lived in England for the past 2.5 years.

I see a lot of people on boards.ie saying that the Irish are the worst drivers imaginable and that everything about England is so much better but my experience says that we're (the Irish) much better at some things than the English.

Motorways and dual carriageways: The English win hands down for using the overtaking lane as exactly that. When they have completed the overtake manouever they pull back into the driving lane. However when traffic is very busy, faster drivers sit in the overtaking lane for miles upon miles as they do in Ireland.

Tailgating: It's my firm belief that the Irish and English are just as bad as each other for tailgating. The difference being that the English tend to tailgate at much higher speeds in heavy traffic, for miles.

Indicators: I know that we all have multiple examples of people not using their indicators in Ireland but in England people very rarely use indicators when changing lanes on motorways and dual carriageways. The exception to this are the truckers who always use them, usually because they are pulling into the overtaking lave at 60 mph when everyone else there is doing 80+ mph. As a result when I'm driving into and out of work every day I have to be super-alert as to what the car in the next lane is doing because again, I find the English much more blasé about switching lanes with even the tiniest gap available to them, moreso than Irish drivers.

Speed: England has far, far more active speed cameras in action than England yet on the 75+ mile stretch from Bury St. Edmunds (A11) to London (via M11) there is only one camera and it has a hood over it saying "Not in use". The average speed on this road in moving traffic is about 80 mph, well above the speed limit. A lot of people do significantly higher speeds. I've been doing 90mph in my car (in the driving lane!) only to be passed by several cars all travelling at far greater speeds than me.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? I realise that Irish drivers have some terrible, terrible habits but to be honest, compared with English drivers we aren't that bad. For those of you who have driven for significant periods in the UK what do you think? Agree? Disagree?

i find irish drivers to be worse, but i suspect that with almost half a million unteasted provisional drivers on the road, its not something to be surprised at.

having said that, you get a shed load of bad drivers everywhere you go. the irish and british drivers are not the worst i nthe world.

try getting on a road in china. now thats taking your life in your own hands.

r3nu4l

corblimey wrote:

I have limited experience of driving in the UK, but the 2 things I've noticed are:

1. there's a lot more lane-changing on the motorways. I assume this is mostly drivers pulling out to overtake and back again, but I have seen a lot more incidents of under-taking, weaving in and out of traffic, etc.

2. the speed camera system is something of a joke. You get a prior warning, and then just have to obey the speed limit between 2 sections of the road. so everybody speeds along at will, then screeches back to the limit for 200 yards then back up to their chosen speed.

Those issues are inter-linked in some ways There is a 14 mile stretch of the A14 that has 32 cameras in place, they are the type of camera that measures your progress from one point to another and then calculates your speed. This stretch of road sees some crazy overtaking, undertaking, multiple lane changes due to drivers trying to avoid getting caught for speeding.

How? Say you are in the middle lane when the first camera spots you, you change to the left lane and then the next camera aimed at the middle lane can't see you but you are now recorded by a new camera in the left lane so you change now to the far right-hand lane for the next camera, back to the middle lane for the next camera and then the far left-lane and so on until you are passed the stretch. The police have admitted that on this stretch of road doing this does indeed fool the cameras So now you have speed cameras in place that are causing very dangerous lane changes at high speed by huge numbers of drivers. This does not work on other stretches of road with a similar system in place, it's someting to do with the company that got the contract and their software system)..

Stark

HelterSkelter wrote:

I've driven in Spain and Italy and found them to be good drivers. They are compentent and confident drivers, unlike a lot of Irish drivers who are almost afraid of driving and seem to lack confidence behind the wheel.

I haven't driven personally in Spain, but from observing in the passenger seat, the Spanish seem to be just as bad as the Irish. One thing I noticed is that indicators are even more of a problem on roundabouts as not only do they not bother indicating, they also fly through at much greater speeds than Irish drivers.

galah wrote:

My experience: The British are pretty bad when it comes to driving, but the Irish are still the worst. Ever. At least the British have some sort of driver education, and British roads are more policed (my experience anyway), with more speed camreas and all. So it's not as unpredictable as here, I find...

Speed cameras are not "policing". There's been a major reduction in the number of traffic police on UK roads since the speed camera network was installed. Certainly from driving up in the North, I don't see any benefit to them. And driving along at 70mph in England, you'll be harassed and overtaken every few seconds.

Gatster

I'm not for a second denying how bad Irish drivers can be but I do refute the idea that somehow we are so much inferior to everyone else. That's just so ill-informed imo.

I've driven in every major European country (apart from the Nordics) and at the risk of sticking my neck at here, this is the worst country for it's general standard, both of drivers and the roads they are using, just my €0.02 Galah is bang on about Italy & France, and Spain as well. Once I got into the swing of it, I loved driving in the towns in Italy especially.

ninty9er

WhiteWashMan wrote:

with almost half a million unteasted provisional drivers on the road, its not something to be surprised at.

There are over 400,000 provisional permits issued, but after a recent conversation with friends (who have provisionals) only 1 of the 5 has ever used it on a public road, and that was getting lessons from a professional instructor

Are there really 400,000 unlicenced driver's on our roads? I used to believe it, but now I'm wondering if it's even half that figure!!!

Fratton Fred

ninty9er wrote:

There are over 400,000 provisional permits issued, but after a recent conversation with friends (who have provisionals) only 1 of the 5 has ever used it on a public road, and that was getting lessons from a professional instructor

Are there really 400,000 unlicenced driver's on our roads? I used to believe it, but now I'm wondering if it's even half that figure!!!

trust me, there is and I see every single one of them every day to and from work:D

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote:

Are there really 400,000 unlicenced driver's on our roads? I used to believe it, but now I'm wondering if it's even half that figure!!!

Not at any one time!
There would be an even higher figure for people with licences (full and provisional) who have never passed a driving test!

r3nu4l

Fratton Fred wrote:

It would be interesting to here what the OP thinks about Irish drivers after driving in the UK for a while and then coming back.

I've been home a lot in the last two years as I'm getting married in Tipperary in July this year so anytime I'm home I see my folks in Dublin and then do the drive to Tipp via Maynooth, Prosperous, Kilmeague, Milltown, Kildare (M7), Durrow, Abbeyleix...Urlingford, Cashel by-pass...Cahir and back again. So I drive on all types of road when I'm home, city and country.

To be honest I really do find Irish drivers are slower on the roads to the point where I find myself getting slightly frustrated. Surprisingly I don't see as many people on the M7 sitting in the overtaking lane as I thought I would, I find drivers pretty okay. Irish drivers definitely have a better knowledge of where the indicators are located and what they are for.

As for the N4 and M50, it's hard to judge driving styles there as traffic is mostly at a snails pace I do think that in general a lot of Irish drivers seem to be unaware of what is behind them on the roads so when you do get someone sitting in the overtaking lane it might be a while before s/he notices you are there and of course you do get the ignorant one who when they see you behind them deliberately stay where they are and display a "F*ck you!" attitude

Of course Ireland has some really bad drivers and driver education is absolutely terrible but as has already been said I believe that the state of our roads, confusing (or no) road-signs and the volumes of traffic on Dublin roads (in particular) means it can be very hard to drive well all the time as the driver really is challenged with everything around them.

I wouldn't say we are better than English drivers but I really don't think we are markedly any worse either. If we had their roads, road-signage and driver education I imagine we (Ireland) could be a nation of better drivers than they are.

Guy:Incognito

I've driven a fair bit in Germany while visiting relatives and have spent 25 years (2 - 4 weeks a year) being driven by germans, while the genral skill level may be higher, it doesnt nessicarily make for great drivers. I find they are extremely agressive drivers. My uncle used to tailgate at 120mph + , thats a scary experience. He also wrote off 5 cars in 100mph+ crashes. I've winessed more high speed tailagting than I could count, coupled with a lot of near misses.

jmayo

Actually I have found the French and Spanish (both mainland and Mallorca) to be pretty ok. At least in France/Spain they know what motorway lanes are for.
You do have the occassional eejit up your rear but at least they believe in making adequate progress on the roads and they will let you out but you have to be quick.
Then agaion their roads are miles (or should that be kms) better.
I have seen a few Germans on roads doing crazy sh**, like driving at 90mph pulling a caravan but that's another story.
I think a lot of Irish drivers would need to drive on French roads, German autobahns, US freeways etc to really wake them up.

wotsasilencer

I lived in England for 20 years and am home for 2. I learned how to drive properly under an instructor and those lessons have saved my ass on numerous occasions. I also ride motorcycles - again trained professionally.

What I would say is that the roads in Ireland are different to those in England and different styles of driving are a resultant of different road types, vehicular type, road quality, training etc.

The reality of it is that there are too many untrained drivers on the road, the roads are not designed to carry the amount of traffic they do, old boys in flat caps and women with blue rinses drive along in their tractors and Morris Minors respectively at slow speeds and it is this speed differential that first and foremost causes issues.

We should all drive to the relevant conditions no matter what country we are driving in.

RobAMerc

I hate driving here. to the point where I have started flying or getting the train to anywhere with a half decent service. (Despite paying stupid money for tax and insurance on 2 cars).

The UK I find refreshing too compared to here, sure you have idiots on the road there too, but there busy driving there own cars - not paying 0 attention to anything and then flashing the lights when you wake them up like happens here!

I visit Italy regularly and find driving there reminds me why I have such a passion for it.

Stark

RobAMerc wrote:

The UK I find refreshing too compared to here, sure you have idiots on the road there too, but there busy driving there own cars - not paying 0 attention to anything and then flashing the lights when you wake them up like happens here!

Yup. Had to change lanes in queuing traffic yesterday. Flicked on my indicator and waited a bit. Car moved forward on my left and a woman driver remained motionless behind him allowing a good gap to form. "Nice one", I think, "she's letting me in". Of course, as soon as I move into the gap, her foot comes down on the accelerator and I get a good blast of the horn off her and the flashing of the lights. Didn't do her much good though as I had already moved into the lane and her precious road space was mine

jackofalltrades

Did a bit of driving in England recently, found it a lot less stressful driving on than motorways over there. The lane discipline is a lot better, progress is easier to make, only had to flash one car who was hogging the overtaking lane(L plate) and she moved over straight away, no putting hazards on or slamming on the brakes.

Speeds are a lot higher though and you have to get out of the far right overtaking lane fairly quickly or you'll get people seriously tailgating you.

The drivers over there are also a lot more predictable in the actions, unlike some of the crazy nut jobs you get over here.

unkel

jackofalltrades wrote:

you have to get out of the far right overtaking lane fairly quickly or you'll get people seriously tailgating you

Just like everywhere else in Europe. The system works

Seriously, to the people reading this that have been tailgated - with all due respect, but most of you should have been out of the overtaking lane quicker or not in there in the first place

From my experience of driving in Europe, the vast majority of drivers I have seen being tailgated, should not have been where they were at the time

Generally, people should not tailgate - ever (on purpose). But look at it from another angle. Say you are driving at 220km/h and some ignorant fool doing 120km/h enters the overtaking lane 200m* in front of you. You cannot avoid tailgating that fool.

*Just making these figures up - but you get the picture