Teachers can do it too!

Dr.Bunson

Well if the nurses can go on strike and hold the country to ransom, surely the teachers can get away with it too…

Delegates at the ASTI convention in Sligo unanimously carried an emergency motion yesterday demanding a renegotiation of the terms of the national pay deal, Towards 2016. The ASTI and the other teacher unions, the INTO and the TUI, have also submitted a 10pc 'special' pay claim under the benchmarking process.

Are the Gardai next… although the bus and rail workers union haven't had a good old fashioned picket for a while...

Unions in Ireland are on a par with Bush's war on terror: Full of self-serving country bums hell bent on causing destruction and disruption to tax paying citizens whilst, annoyingly, telling the rest of the world how great they are.

I think PAYE workers of the private sector should unite and picket Dail Eireann, with big placards, to criminalise membership of unions…striking…and placards!!

godtabh

Dr.Bunson wrote:

Well if the nurses can go on strike and hold the country to ransom, surely the teachers can get away with it too…



Are the Gardai next… although the bus and rail workers union haven't had a good old fashioned picket for a while...

Unions in Ireland are on a par with Bush's war on terror: Full of self-serving country bums hell bent on causing destruction and disruption to tax paying citizens whilst, annoyingly, telling the rest of the world how great they are.

I think PAYE workers of the private sector should unite and picket Dail Eireann, with big placards, to criminalise membership of unions…striking…and placards!!

Teachers all ready held the country to randsom when they striked coming up the leaving/junior cert a couple of years ago.

Some teachers do a good job. Some teachers do deserve a raise. Some teachers are wasters.

A benchmarking scheme to reward the good is what is needed.

Enright

just out of curisioty, how will you determine the good from the bad?
At present the dept send in inspectors, who evaluate the subject, classes and teaching practices, however every teacher will tell you that its harder to get weak students to pass ordinary papers that to get motivated good students from backgrounds where both parents have degrees, can afford grinds, have money for revision books, ensure that their child atends school "A's" in higher level papers.

Fallen Seraph

Wow. How incredibly inconsiderate of nurses to ask for more pay. I mean they're only as qualified as the doctors they work alongside and have most of the same skills and work the same hours. It's ridiculous that they should be expect to be paid more than a fraction of the pay doctors get.

Actually, after re-reading your post I have to wonder if this is trolling

criminalise membership of unions

Riiiight...

Dr.Bunson

Okay criminalising union membership is a bit harsh....

but it looks like the teachers are gearing up to strike too...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0412/teachers.html

...but then again, with the good weather, a strike is a good way of building up a tan before the 3 month summer holidays.

SF1

I wounder who will next go for solidarity with the nurses?

is_that_so

Enright wrote:

just out of curisioty, how will you determine the good from the bad?
At present the dept send in inspectors, who evaluate the subject, classes and teaching practices, however every teacher will tell you that its harder to get weak students to pass ordinary papers that to get motivated good students from backgrounds where both parents have degrees, can afford grinds, have money for revision books, ensure that their child atends school "A's" in higher level papers.

All teaching is backed by learning theory. Evaluating what is and is not effective teaching based on that theory is not difficult to do. IMO there is a resistance within the teaching profession to this type of evaluation. Evaluations do more than produce reports, they can help teachers get better at what they do. That coupled with appropriate training can make their lives a little easier.
Having experienced the "inspectors" myself once upon a time , I really wouldn't pay a lot of attention to them. :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

Dr.Bunson wrote:

...but then again, with the good weather, a strike is a good way of building up a tan before the 3 month summer holidays.

I was wondeering how long it take before mention of the holidays surfaced.

The holidays are in place for the children not the teachers. However, if would you aply for a job that would only allow you to work for 9 months and would not allow you to receive pay for the other three months?
How many hours a day do you work? Do you get overtime?My wife could work another three or four hours after she comes home from school when planning classes, marking homework, setting assignments, etc..

The_Minister

They tried this before the last election too. It failed then as well. One has to wonder if they see this as some sort of holiday every five years.

EDIT: Kbannon are you sure that teachers don't work during the holidays? Most of my teachers had outside jobs (I'll never forget the day I saw my Geography teacher giving the Viking Splash Tour:D)

mikemac

Possibly a stupid question, but are teachers on full salary during the summer holidays? I realy don't know-kind of assumed they weren't.

If they are, that's some sweet deal!

brianthebard

Pretty sure they are paid during the summer. It seems awfully like they are jumping on the bandwagon and the government is going to have to take strong measures to sort these two strikes out. Benchmarking is definitely needed in the teaching industry, as someone else mentioned. There are far too many teachers who are either outdated, p!sspoor, in it just for the money or whatever, they need to be sorted out or at the very least not allowed to move up the ranks. The teachers in my school were ridiculous, out of 30 there were at least 15 that were terrible.

Seth Brundle

micmclo wrote:

Possibly a stupid question, but are teachers on full salary during the summer holidays? I realy don't know-kind of assumed they weren't.

If they are, that's some sweet deal!

Teachers receive an annual salary paid over 12 months. During the Summer they are still employed by the school and if required must go in. This doesn't really happen though. AFAIK the majority of teachers who do nixers during the summer do the supervision and/or marking of the exams - both crappy paid, crappy jobs!

Conar

I'm not too sure why I'm getting involved in this argument but I'll give my 2 cents anyway.

I do think that unions in Ireland are going to far these days.
I understand when people say that a lot of nurses know as much as the doctors and can/could perform a lot of the same roles but at the end of the day if they want to earn a doctors salary perhaps they should become doctors.
Plenty of shop staff practically run the shops they work in but unless they apply for that managers job they won't get the managers salary.

In regards to the 35 hours week. If the rest of the country worked 35 hour weeks then I'm sure they'd have a case but I just don't see what makes them deserve those kind of working hours over others.

Teachers may have a case for pay increases but like others I feel that we need to get rid of the bad teachers and reward the good ones rather than just throwing more money at them as a group.

From talking to firends and colleagues I would have to say that the private sector is showing less and less respect to the public sector and their millitant unions as they just seem to use picket lines likle children use tantrums.

killbillvol2

At no point in either of the items quoted by Dr. Bunson is there any mention of teachers striking.

But I suppose the chip on his shoulder is understandable. Whoever taught him to read didn't do a very good job.

K-9

killbillvol2 wrote:

At no point in either of the items quoted by Dr. Bunson is there any mention of teachers striking.

But I suppose the chip on his shoulder is understandable. Whoever taught him to read didn't do a very good job.

No, but there is the threat. You'd think they would ahve learned from 2001/02 and there failure. Teachers obviously don't learn from history! Maybe thats why ASTI are backing the nurses from afar and also joining benchmarking. Covering all bases.

Conar wrote:

In regards to the 35 hours week. If the rest of the country worked 35 hour weeks then I'm sure they'd have a case but I just don't see what makes them deserve those kind of working hours over others.

I see 35,000 other public sector workers like porters/ambulance workers and health care assistants are now looking for the 35 hour week. The Nurses unions say thats unfair and unhelpful. What, that nurses actually aren't that badly treated, very unhelpful.

Conar

Seanies32 wrote:

I see 35,000 other public sector workers like porters/ambulance workers and health care assistants are now looking for the 35 hour week. The Nurses unions say thats unfair and unhelpful. What, that nurses actually aren't that badly treated, very unhelpful.

Yeah why not have everyone work 35 hour weeks, sure didn't it work for France. :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4373167.stm

Chakar

They're just out for what they can get really. The government won't be capitulating to them.

brianthebard

I could understand asking for a pay rise, and almost understand asking for a 35 hour week, but the two together just strikes me as lazy. More money for less pay? What employer in their right mind would agree to that?

DublinWriter

Dr.Bunson wrote:

Are the Gardai next… although the bus and rail workers union haven't had a good old fashioned picket for a while...

No, Guards aren't legally allowed strike. When they are attested they swear to uphold the standards as outlined in the Garda Code, an article of which denies them the right to undertake industrial action.

So instead, they just have to improvise and for 48 hours will do one or all of the following:

1) pretend to have the 'flu
2) refuse to end every question/sentance with the word 'now'
3) revert back to their original pre-Templemore accent

Glenbhoy

Fallen Seraph wrote:

I mean they're only as qualified as the doctors they work alongside and have most of the same skills and work the same hours.Riiiight...

Riiiight..

Grudaire

Firstly what has this to do with the upcoming election, secondly Glenbhoy I wouldn't dismiss nurses so easily, I wouldn't work as a nurse simpily because it's a ****ty job, dealing with the sick always, very depressing.

But the real question is whether Ms Harney is dealing with the strike correctly.....?

The_Minister

Cliste wrote:

Firstly what has this to do with the upcoming election,

They are using the election to make the government look bad by protesting now. Some of them were holding signs saying "FF/PDs say goodbye to third term"

Cliste wrote:

But the real question is whether Ms Harney is dealing with the strike correctly.....?

Yes she is.

Grudaire

I'm glad we cleared that, you have fully convinced me with that argument....!

Do you expect me to believe that their sole purpose is to make the government look bad? They are using the means that they have, at the most opportunistic occasion, considering the PD's mandate which is less of the vote then Sinn Fein and yet who hold some of the most prominant positions in government. It's all politics. But a large part of this thread has been focused on whether or not the strike is justified...

Secondly I don't like the PD's to start off, but Harney is making it seem as if the short strikes are the cause of our shambles of a health system, which isn't true, Before the strike I went to A+E to check up on what turned out to be a bad sprain, I was told that the wait would be around six hours....

raven136

It seems to me that the nurses and teachers and most other public sector workers dont realise exactly how good they have it.
job security for life,amazing pensions,on average 11 percent more pay than the rest of us and in the teachers case more holidays than normal.

I understand that the nurses work is hard but surely as they went through college they didnt thin k it was going to be a doddle.And no nurses dont do the sam jobs as doctors,yes they do great stuff but a doctor is paid more because he studied more,he knows more and he makes the final decision.
More pay for less work is simply not right or fair.The health service is a shambles and the admin should not be paid more than nurses but going on strike wont sort it out.
Try working in a big multinational factory and seeing your mates all let go with 30 year mortages and no pensions,then try have sympathy for a teacher or nurse

brianthebard

Cliste wrote:

It's all politics.

How observant of you :rolleyes:

Secondly I don't like the PD's to start off, but Harney is making it seem as if the short strikes are the cause of our shambles of a health system, which isn't true, Before the strike I went to A+E to check up on what turned out to be a bad sprain, I was told that the wait would be around six hours....

It may not be the cause of the health systems problems, but less hours for nurses will mean paying more overtime and hiring more staff, taking away from what can be spent on the actual system.