Sligo - City or Town

Gillie

Well what do you think?

Do you consider the land of hearts desire to be a City or a town?
If population is the key we have 18000 approx within the bourough boundary - not much but Kilkenny has 8000!

Sligo was a member of the list of Gateway cities:

Cork, Waterford, Letterkenny, Sligo, Galway, Dundalk, Athlone/Tullamore/Mullingar, and Limerick/Shannon

But is that enough?
Is it too small and is there enough infastructure?

In my opinion it is/should be.
There are important things to be addressed:
PARKING
Lack of Industry
Uni status for IT
Road improvement
Wine Street retail developement to be sorted out (step in the right direction with Dunnes Stores new development!)

Overall I think Sligo is heading in the right direction.

Thoughts?

muffler

I give it the nod as a city purely on the basis that I think it should be. There is certain criteria for obtaining city status with population most likely being the main factor. Im not 100% sure and Im open to correction but I think the population must be somewhere between 30,000 and 50,000.

As I said I dont really know the exact figure but Im sure we will find out shortly

Gillie

I think youre figures are right but as I mentioned Kilkenny city has only a population of 8000, 10000 less than Sligo!

Na.It's Sligo town.
Galway,Dublin ,Cork and Limerick are the only cities in the Republic.

Gillie

Eh. What about Waterford & Kilkenny?

bullpost

Think you'll find Waterford is also a city.

Deleted User wrote:

Na.It's Sligo town.
Galway,Dublin ,Cork and Limerick are the only cities in the Republic.

nanook

there is something in the back of my head, but does a city not have to have 2 cathedrals.

Not sure but something is telling me this.

Gillie

nanook wrote:

there is something in the back of my head, but does a city not have to have 2 cathedrals.

Not sure but something is telling me this.

I have heard before that it must have a cathedral - check!;)

jimmycrackcorm

The mentality of Sligo people makes it a rural town...

Gillie

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

The mentality of Sligo people makes it a rural town...

WTF???

Madge

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

The mentality of Sligo people makes it a rural town...

What do you mean by that statement?!!

deman

nanook wrote:

there is something in the back of my head, but does a city not have to have 2 cathedrals.

Not sure but something is telling me this.

Like Raphoe?

smashey

deman wrote:

Like Raphoe?

Raphoe is a town. Like Sligo.

deman

Under old British rule, any town that had a cathedral in it was automatically a city, or more strictly, a cathedral city. Nowadays this recognition doesn't really exist, only in the eyes of those who want to say they live in a city

Raphoe is a town yes, so is Sligo, so is Letterkenny for that matter.

The EU have drawn up plans as to what makes a place a city but I can't seem to find it on the net. This definition has made some people quite angry, esp the people in Tampere, Finland, who probably live in one of Europe's biggest towns (according to the EU) with a population of around 200,000. But as it is divided by surrounding lakes, it has not a dense enough population (378/km²) to define it as a city (according to the EU).

Tiesto

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

The mentality of Sligo people makes it a rural town...

Haha what a totally useless statement to come out with without some sort of reasoning

muffler

Tiesto wrote:

Haha what a totally useless statement to come out with without some sort of reasoning

Im sure jimmy will enlighten us

muffler

I found this - let the debate begin (especially about Kilkenny)

smashey

muffler wrote:

Im sure jimmy will enlighten us

I think Jimmy was on a wind-up mission. He succeeded.

tuppence

Some of the best cities have parks dont they for people to gather in? The odd live concert? Hyde Park, Central Park, and on a smaller version Eyre Square in galway.. Reckon Sligo still has the air of a town still. But you never know what might happen with the new Cleveragh venture!

donegalman1

Although it doesn't have a close knit community feel, I'd have to say a town. It is only recently embracing more cosmopolitan styles and there generally seems to be a political and business lack of embracing new business and high street names for example.

With regard to Jimmys comment I could see many things not working in Sligo that do in Letterkenny. Sligo has less diversity and even things like music in clubs is fairly much stalemate.

Skyuser

Argos can't even be bothered with Sligo. It's a sh!t town, look at the bus service....a ford galaxy would hold more people.

Tails142

I was in sligo... they have a TK Maxx, they must be a city!!

Nah just kidding, I think it really does still have the air of a town, only one or two major urbanised areas, I'm thinking around the hotel I stayed in (cant remember name, sligo arms hotel??) it does have a large shopping centre which was nice as I recall.

In about 10 years time I think it will have the makings of a city, still developing though imo

Gillie

Skyuser wrote:

Argos can't even be bothered with Sligo. It's a sh!t town, look at the bus service....a ford galaxy would hold more people.

Real intelligent comment there!
It was the Chamber of Commerce that refused access to Argos.
The bus is fine and they have larger buses for busier times.

As for calling it a shít town.:rolleyes:

K-9

muffler wrote:

I found this - let the debate begin (especially about Kilkenny)

Remember reading somwhere that Kilkenny has a very small town/city boundary so it makes the population seem very small.

tuppence

If the definition of a city is how many of these highstreet stores you can pack in compared to the other city than I would prefer to be in a town thank you very much! Not that I have any problem with them but everything within a limit. It the mainstreaming streamlining maddness I have issues with, and shopping fixation. Every place beginning to look the same, sometimes I have forgotton where I am. Surely a city or a town for that matter must be somewhere thats accessible (are the buses disability friendly, are there toilets?) and nice to visit for everyone even the non car users. And yes you might even get something in the shops while your there. There used to be a thriving art culture in Sligo, wheres the street entertainment? Wheres the seats to sit on in OConnell street? Wheres the coffee docks by the river like the board walk in Dublin? Wheres the independent book sellers, craft shops where are all the butchers going?
Perhaps the limus test to see if town or city is that Sligo should apply to be European city of culture and see whether its accepted! Maybe then folk might stop worrying bout shops (for a little while anyway);)

Gillie

tuppence wrote:

Wheres the seats to sit on in OConnell street? Wheres the coffee docks by the river like the board walk in Dublin?

Hopefully they are on the way. The "proper" job is still to be done on O'Connell Street which includes seating. I think they are waiting for the Johnson's Court Mall to be opened first.
There is a nice Wine/Cafe bar beside Barton Smiths, At the Left Bank and outside the Glasshouse. All three are beside the river.

donegalman1

I was using shopping as a barometer of diversity. The town doesn't like change, doesn't experiment with new styles etc etc. The establishment there stiffles new opportunities at every turn. That hardly is the mentality of a city. Entertainment is poor to drival and hardly competes with Galway to the south or letterkenny to the North. If you compare Sligo to Derry for example, it would be badly embarrassed.

tuppence

Suppose shopping to me is only one barometer. Its not necessarily bad not to go with the flow! (Is that a double negative..) Sligo definitely has alot to catch up on if its striving for city status. You can be cosmopolitan and a town, sligo definitely used to be cool. The entertainment is poor alright. Theres more diversity in Leitrim thanks to the mobile cinema, and good venues like the Glens and Dock! Okay theres not the big venues either.
But I think that its the case of alot more to do and maybe its the season for the sligo inhabitants to talk to those knocking on their doors.
Eg Theres supposed to be an outdoor market where the Stephens car park is. The organic market traders were there on St. patricks day and really lifted the look of the place and even gave it a buzz in the rain. Like a cosmopolitan European city even!

Gillie

donegalman1 wrote:

I was using shopping as a barometer of diversity. The town doesn't like change, doesn't experiment with new styles etc etc. The establishment there stiffles new opportunities at every turn. That hardly is the mentality of a city. Entertainment is poor to drival and hardly competes with Galway to the south or letterkenny to the North. If you compare Sligo to Derry for example, it would be badly embarrassed.

Yes the "establishment" are <SNIP> things up here but their power is diminishing! It's only a matter of time before they are edged out imo!

Not sure what you mean by new styles? If you are talking about Building design then look at:
The Glasshouse
Citygate
Quayside

As for Entertainment. Well that's your opinion and your entitled to it.
I would agree that Letterkenny would have a better nightlife but if I head out for a night in Sligo I know that i'll have a good time.

Edit by muffler: Gillie, be careful with choice of words

Madge

tuppence wrote:

The entertainment is poor alright. Theres more diversity in Leitrim thanks to the mobile cinema, and good venues like the Glens and Dock! Okay theres not the big venues either.

I don't understand your statement! There's plenty of diversity and venues in Sligo, it depends what your're looking for. I mean for starters, there's a 12 screen cinema, which shows a variety of different movies (foreign movies and the latest blockbusters). Can you really compare a LITTLE MOBILE cinema in Leitrim with Sligo's modern, hi-tech, 12-screen comfy cinema? Not a chance!
Let me remind all of you condemning Sligo saying there's no music or diversity or whatever- Sligo has plenty of good venues-
all the pubs and hotels have live music especially on the weekends, for instance Liam O'Maonlai is playing in the Glasshouse soon,
the hotels will have country & western stars like crystal gayle or one of them or they might have a comedian on,
the hawkes well will have a play or comedians,
and of course you have the nilland art gallery.
There's also the recently done-up embassy, fiddlers creek and davis's to have dinner in. They're quality well-known places. Or there's the lovely quaint cafes along Rockwood Parade, such as Grappas or Pepper Alley.
The nightlife is grand- you have ENVY for the young ones, Toffs and The Velvet Room.
And of course Sligo has nearly all the stores and shops that you'll find in the big cities.

tuppence wrote:

Eg Theres supposed to be an outdoor market where the Stephens car park is. The organic market traders were there on St. patricks day and really lifted the look of the place and even gave it a buzz in the rain. Like a cosmopolitan European city even!

Tuppence, maybe you don't know, but there's a farmer's and organic market in the IT Sligo grounds on Saturday mornings. Haven't been there but I heard it's good.

Gillie

Gillie wrote:

Yes the "establishment" are <SNIP> things up here but their power is diminishing! It's only a matter of time before they are edged out imo!

Not sure what you mean by new styles? If you are talking about Building design then look at:
The Glasshouse
Citygate
Quayside

As for Entertainment. Well that's your opinion and your entitled to it.
I would agree that Letterkenny would have a better nightlife but if I head out for a night in Sligo I know that i'll have a good time.

Edit by muffler: Gillie, be careful with choice of words

Duely noted! Won't happen again boss.:)

tuppence

Madge wrote:

I don't understand your statement! There's plenty of diversity and venues in Sligo, it depends what your're looking for. I mean for starters, there's a 12 screen cinema, which shows a variety of different movies (foreign movies and the latest blockbusters). Can you really compare a LITTLE MOBILE cinema in Leitrim with Sligo's modern, hi-tech, 12-screen comfy cinema? Not a chance!

Oh dear. I am from Sligo originally you know! Its like a blast from the past.

Anyhow no worries. cant see the diversity in the blockbusters currently
playing the Cinemaplex, saying that i could go to the Carrick multiplex to watch exactly the same. Or else I could watch for example a film about Leonard Cohen at the Mobile cinema as it travels around the countryside to us. You know ye want one really! Dont care for comfy seats and hi tech meself. Not going to go down the diversity angle with the music scene cos its peoples personal preferences but ecletic venues and artists always a good thing. Anyway, thats for a separated thread altogether i would say.
Re: Dont know all the restuarants except one of them is def outside the city/town? Is that not cheating?! Madge, though seriously if you or anyone can recommend me a good curry I would be so grateful. (Know theres a couple of places but want a recommendation)
Also the I.T. organic market is the one that (i believe) is supposed to be moving down. It was certainly the one there on St. Pats. Too isolated out there i suspect. And yes theres another at Market yard! But having a market at the water is that not kinda cute. Could be a good spot for congregating. Covent garden of Sligo.

It seems to be all about definition again. Before we even get to what Sligo is, we donnt know what to expect from a city or a town? We all agree we want diversity then we cant agree what diversity is! Who would be a politician?

muffler

Gillie wrote:

Duely noted! Won't happen again boss.:)

Sarcasm doesn't become you

Madge

tuppence wrote:

Oh dear. I am from Sligo originally you know! Its like a blast from the past.

I'll bet you remember the old cinema though, before it was refurbished?!

tuppence wrote:

Anyhow no worries. cant see the diversity in the blockbusters currently
playing the Cinemaplex, saying that i could go to the Carrick multiplex to watch exactly the same. Or else I could watch for example a film about Leonard Cohen at the Mobile cinema as it travels around the countryside to us.

If you check the 'coming soon' section of the gaiety's site, you'll see there are some foreign films coming up.

tuppence wrote:

Re: Dont know all the restuarants except one of them is def outside the city/town? Is that not cheating?!

Lol, I suppose it is!

tuppence wrote:

Madge, though seriously if you or anyone can recommend me a good curry I would be so grateful. (Know theres a couple of places but want a recommendation)

There's an Indian place on high street that my friend went to, he said it was good. There's one on Pearse Road too beside the bank.

Basq

Madge wrote:

I'll bet you remember the old cinema though, before it was refurbished?!

Ah yes.. the flea-ridden mess in all it's glory, those big-white gates. Hard to forget it!

Madge wrote:

If you check the 'coming soon' section of the gaiety's site, you'll see there are some foreign films coming up.

Their "Coming Soon" is borrowed from a British site (www.cinemas-online.co.uk). Expect to see pretty much none of the foreign movies in the Gaiety.

Madge wrote:

There's an Indian place on high street that my friend went to, he said it was good. There's one on Pearse Road too beside the bank.

The one on Pearse Road ain't great.. have had it a few times. Personal preference of course but never really liked the stuff from there.

Heard the one at the bottom of High Street is quite nice alright.

Oh.. and with regards to the bus service, there's been a couple of mornings where's it been lashing and that bus has been well over it's occupancy. Could barely make it up the hill at back of the hospital. Absolute joke!

gustavo

I would consider Sligo to be a provincial town really , been held back a lot by various factions , probably does have the potential to be a city but is in my opinion nowhere near one yet.

Madge

basquille wrote:

Their "Coming Soon" is borrowed from a British site (www.cinemas-online.co.uk). Expect to see pretty much none of the foreign movies in the Gaiety.

Never knew that, so that's false advertising really :rolleyes:

basquille wrote:

Oh.. and with regards to the bus service, there's been a couple of mornings where's it been lashing and that bus has been well over it's occupancy. Could barely make it up the hill at back of the hospital. Absolute joke!

Very true.. and those buses must be in dire need of updating or getting a service cos when my mother and I went on it- we felt every stop and jerk of the bus and literally got jolted around on the seat!

brianthebard

Gillie wrote:

I think youre figures are right but as I mentioned Kilkenny city has only a population of 8000, 10000 less than Sligo!

Kilkenny was granted city status by Henry the VIII because he had his garrisons stationed there and you can't have the kings men stationed in any auld town!
I think it could soon be a city, but I'm happy thinking of it as a town. I think it has the best of both worlds, lots of services, a couple of theatres, art galleries, music venues, plenty of shops, a nice relaxed attitude without the hustle and bustle of being a city. Only Galway has managed to get bigger and still have that attitude.

randylonghorn

muffler wrote:

I found this - let the debate begin (especially about Kilkenny)

Kilkenny was granted a Royal Charter as a city in 1609 by James I. However, a number of earlier borough charters exist, the earliest from William the Earl Marshall in 1208. This was confirmed by Richard II around 1400. The 1609 charter amalgamated the old borough of Hightown with the borough of Irishtown (which had its charter from the Bishops of Ossory) to constitute the city of Kilkenny.

brianthebard wrote:

Kilkenny was granted city status by Henry the VIII because he had his garrisons stationed there and you can't have the kings men stationed in any auld town!

I don't remember a significant charter from Henry VIII, Brian, but I wouldn't be sure; John Bradley, in the Dept. of History in your place would be the man to ask ... if you have a couple of hours to spare!

A number of Irish Parliaments were held in Kilkenny in the late 13th and the 14th century, indicating its relative importance at that time, with the well-known Statutes of Kilkenny passed there in 1366 ... and of course it was the location for the Confederate Parliament from 1642 - 1649. The presence of the Butlers of Ormonde, who were Lord Deputies of Ireland on many occasions, tended to add to its status as a locus of political power.

After almost 400 years as a city, its status was affirmed by Section 10(7) of the 2001 Local Government Act:

This section is without prejudice to the continued use of the description city in relation to Kilkenny, to the extent that that description was used before the establishment day and is not otherwise inconsistent with this Act.

I guess it would have been somewhat difficult to deprive it of city status after that length of time! However, it does not have full administrative status as a city, and is administered by a borough council.

Seanies32 wrote:

Remember reading somwhere that Kilkenny has a very small town/city boundary so it makes the population seem very small.

This is true, though it is unlikely that it would reach anywhere near the 30,000 mentioned earlier even if the boundaries were altered.

brianthebard wrote:

I think it has the best of both worlds, lots of services, a couple of theatres, art galleries, music venues, plenty of shops, a nice relaxed attitude without the hustle and bustle of being a city. Only Galway has managed to get bigger and still have that attitude.

All true ... though while Kilkenny is a lively place in the summer, it can be very dead in winter. Unfortunately the Butler's original idea of gifting Kilkenny Castle for the setting up of a new university in the middle of the last century came to naught (though they did later gift it to the city, and it has become a major tourist attraction). Later, the new RTCs (Institiutes of Technology as they now are) went to Waterford and to Carlow. A third-level institution in Kilkenny would have been the making of the place ... it would have most likely have developed as Galway has, though probably not on the same scale.

donegalman1

Would not like this to become a Kilkenny piece!

Talking about Sligo, I wouldn't really rate the lead singer from a band that got their fame from a piece on Eurovision and never did anything since a sign of diversity. (Liam form Hot House Flowers) I mean the clubs are twenty years behind time (Music wise and with the exception of Velvet in every way). If you are talking about the Irish ways of doing things, no one contributes to the local radio station except polical parties or those with a political point to make. Where is the social fabric in this town. No One seems to express their opinion even in the old fashioned ways. I'll bet we have more contibutors from the Finn Valley area than sligo 'city'

Sligo has had its political and business problems as far as I can see but it does deserve much better. It reminds me of that ad where they ask 'any barbers where you come from boy' attitude.

I pose the question has anyone ever tried anything different and being knocked down or has it just been like this all the time.#

If they have tried and failed then your city status question is answered.

Supposing I asked where you would experience anything of an international flavour, be it music or culture. No one does house music which dominates the UK and international charts. While we knock it Donegal has benefited from its northern influence. A multi screen cinema means sqat now,you can rent better DVDs and probably download better films. If Sligo is boasting a multiplex cinema then it has a lot to learn.

conaire

there are 5 cities in the republic.
Dublin,Cork,Limerick,Galway,Waterford.
These are the only entitled cities under irish law.
In the case of Kilkenny it has no legal standing, it is an honuary title.
Untill recent years Waterford was the fourth largest urban centre untill
Galway expanded.However Waterford remains Irelands oldest city.

Madge

Well it seems the masses have spoken according to the poll- it's a town.. BUT only for the time being!

Gillie

Madge wrote:

Well it seems the masses have spoken according to the poll- it's a town.. BUT only for the time being!

That's the spirit!;)
When posting this poll I wanted to see what opinion was. My own personal opinion is that it is a fast (sometimes very slow) growing town that possibly could/should be a city.

I wonder if someone will be posting a similar poll in relation to Letterkenny in a few years as it is growing so fast.

K-9

Sligo, Letterkenny etc.etc. are getting bigger but then so are other provincial towns/capitals and of course the cities.

Maybe there is an arguement that a city should have a population of say 40/50,000 minimum to just reflect the growing population/economic activity etc.

il gatto

Sligo was incorporated as a Borough by Charles I in 1609 by grant of charter. A borough is a town with limited autonomy such as electing a mayor and borough council. It was also considered a "Cathedral City", but such status is not really appropriate in this age as centuaries ago, towns rarely reached the size of modern day Sligo, so any town of reasonable size with a Cathedral was considered a city.
For some perspective, we should look outside of Ireland. Rotherham in Yorkshire, for example has an urban population of 117,000+ and a total borough population of nearly 250,000, and yet is considered a town.
There are other examples worldwide of inappropriate city status such as Vatican City, so it's not just an Irish quirk.
Armagh City is not much more than half Sligo's size and Kilkenny is also consirably smaller. I fail to see Sligo's obcession with it's classification.
To be honest, I feel Sligo always felt like a glorified market town, which has, in recent years taken on a much more metropolitan feel. But any town where so many people are known to one another, and notoriety is so easy to come by, does not feel like a city. And any town that cannot build a bypass or ring road, cannot provide a public toilet and will not allow out of town grocery shopping has no right to call itself a city. The Borough Council should concentrate on providing the things that any well managed town can provide, instead of wasting time debating their status and bemoaning a lack of government support on the issue.

brianthebard

Gillie wrote:

That's the spirit!;)
When posting this poll I wanted to see what opinion was. My own personal opinion is that it is a fast (sometimes very slow) growing town that possibly could/should be a city.

I wonder if someone will be posting a similar poll in relation to Letterkenny in a few years as it is growing so fast.

I think in the last five years it has grown tremendously. Partly because I'm away at college so I don't see the town every week but you can really feel the changes I think. The new tattoo parlour is a case in point, a few years ago the only place that did tattoos had a rep for doing names wrong! now there's a lovely shop on high street. I know a lot of people were annoyed when the new traffic system was put in place but I think its really made the town a nicer place to walk around and enjoy, especially O'Connell st. Unfortunately the mall is pretty dead as a result but the only places of interest really on that street are the second hand bookshop and the art gallery so its not so bad. So in terms of growth and diversity at least I think Sligo is expanding all the time.

Whether it should be called a city or a town is mainly an ego thing in a lot of ways. I think being listed as a gateway did have an impact and that's what we should concentrate on. People are comparing Sligo to cities in England on this thread but what does that serve to achieve? Even Dublin is small on that scale. Let's concentrate on making Sligo better and in a few years it will be clear if its become a city.

Madge

brianthebard wrote:

I know a lot of people were annoyed when the new traffic system was put in place but I think its really made the town a nicer place to walk around and enjoy, especially O'Connell st. Unfortunately the mall is pretty dead as a result but the only places of interest really on that street are the second hand bookshop and the art gallery so its not so bad.

The Mall is the student part of town. The business premises around that part of town such as the pubs, pharmacy, few shops and hairdressers /barbers cater for students mainly. There's always students around there at weekdays and weeknights so it's not really 'dead'!

brianthebard

Ah right I only really see it on weekends. The internet cafe on Stephen st is always busy so I know there wasn't a loss of business on their part at least!

il gatto

I compared Sligo to towns in England, because it puts into perspective what many people want to call a city. I didn't compare it to English cities, just a town which is not even particularly important.
I hope Sligo will become a city in the future, but as it stands, a visit to a proper city makes you realise how small Sligo really is. It's a big fish in the small pond of the north west and I don't think that should mean it deserves city status, just because othr towns in it's vicinity are smaller.

AlmightyCushion

At the moment I feel it is a town but a town well on it's way to receiving city status.

JIZZLORD

as a sligo person i'm going to have to say that it's a town. though it's a big one. I dont know how to explain my choice, but as i cycled through the centre of galway on my way to salthill this thread popped into mind and how sligo lacked different development.