tube amps for clean sounds

colm_r

A hopefully simple question - is there a big difference between tube amps and solid state amps for clean sounds?

Much of the tube vs solid state discussion seems to be about how tube amps distort. Is there any advantage of tube amps if you are happy to use pedals for overdrive/distortion?

judas101

tubes have a much warmer sound and in my opinion give a much much nicer clean sound.

-=al=-

yes i agree, tube amps can give off some lovely clean tones, add a lil chorus and compression and it sounds pretty nice n sweet, my Tsl100 has great cleans

fish-head

Fender Twin Reverb is your only man! It'll blow your head off before it distorts. Then it'll blow everyones head off.

Frankiestylee

I'm particularly in love with my fender blues jnr. Amazing clean tones out of it.

Asiaprod

Frankiestylee wrote:

I'm particularly in love with my fender blues jnr. Amazing clean tones out of it.

Same here. Did a JJ valve upgrade and swapped out the speaker for a Webber Jennsen Alnico 12N. Only wish would be for a better reverb. Would not swap this little beauty.

Paladin

My answer is there is little difference between the amps fundamentally for a clean sound.

Its not a valve or transistor that will cause much of a difference. The majority of the difference is speakers/cab/pre-amp. Obviously an expensive valve combo will have quality in these departments, but so should a quality transistor combo.

Personally I have invested in quality speakers/cab/pre-amp and bought a good clean solid-state head (Laney LV series), and I would recommend to anyone to do the same and save money.

Much of the tube vs solid state discussion seems to be about how tube amps distort. Is there any advantage of tube amps if you are happy to use pedals for overdrive/distortion?

Nail. Head. Answer is no advantage in my opinion. Only a financial kick in the crotch. But people will swear by them and are very happy so who knows, maybe you would too.

I think the best course of action is to do what I did. Try both amps out using the same pre-amp/effects/speaker/cab setup and decide for yourself if the difference is worth a grand to you.

Savman

Only recently got me first tube amp and although I love the cleans I'm not totally convinced you couldnt get similar results with any amp tbh.
I cannot really offer advice because I've only played a handful of tube amps and very few for a long period of time. To get the best out of any amp you really need to spend some quality time alone with it and tweak tweak tweak.
Like with all things guitar, if in doubt buy a Fender :D

TelePaul

Paladin wrote:

Nail. Head. Answer is no advantage in my opinion. Only a financial kick in the crotch. But people will swear by them and are very happy so who knows, maybe you would too.

I think it's worth remembering that alot of OD pedals - TS 9 is a good example - are used to push a valve amp into saturation. I think you're comment about speakers is particularly valid when it comes to pedals; even if the distortion comes from a stomp box, the overall tone will also depend on the speaker. For what it's worth, I think the Roalnd Jazz Chorus offers nice cleans.

Voodu Child

colm_r wrote:

A hopefully simple question - is there a big difference between tube amps and solid state amps for clean sounds?

Its not a simple question unfortunately - you're not going to get an 'answer', there will be proponents on either side of the fence. When it comes to whether something sounds better or not, all you'll get are opinions.

When ush comes to shove, the only opinion that counts is your own - best thing you can do is head for the guitar shops and try out a few different amps.

deaddonkey

if clean sounds are what you want there's nothing a nice high powered solid state amp won't do

valves come into their own for overdrive and distortion sounds for sure, but for cleans, you can do just aswell with solid state, which is cheaper and doesn't require any maintenance - either they work or they don't

the roland jazz chorus has great, great cleans, i had an 80s laney linebacker for years that had great cleans and reverb, but it died last year

the whole point of valves is for gain, they overdrive and saturate and distort beautifully

but there's a reason a lot of country, jazz, lap steel and surf players use solid state amps - they're cheaper and stay very clean all the way up.
solid state gets a bad name from fizzy 10 watt practice amps - if you go a little higher there's some nice sounding stuff

but, as i said, if you want dirt, go valve, it's the only way to go.

Frankiestylee

Solid state valves aint got no soooooul

colm_r

thanks for all the feedback - deaddonkey & paladin confirmed what I was already thinking

punchdrunk

having played many many solid state amps in practise rooms and studios in the past couple of years i have to say they leave me cold,

i have a huge array of pedals and i've tried the lot with solid state and they go from stunning with my amps to good,but not great with SS
but most of my drive pedals can get an okay sound...

clean is were they fall down they really feel different
i think it's because even when clean my valve amps are distorting just a tiny bit compressing the sound,but anyway the result is lack of dynamics and subtlety in the way they play and i find myself playing alot harder to get results,also my ears tire out alot quicker listening to them
i don't think this is myth!

Voodu Child

Its a daft argument in any case, like asking 'Does a photograph of a painting look better than the original painting?'.

Almost all SS amps are designed and marketed to sound 'just like a valve amp'. (You wont hear a manufacturer saying their SS amp has 'lovely SS tone', its always 'valve-emulation' or simulation, or hybrid or what have you). A Fender SS amp will designed to sound similar to a Fender twin or whatever, and a Marshall MG will have the 'marshall tone' tone in mind.

So, the best they ever hope to do is nail the sound spot on. Usually (IMO), they dont, so when you're asking the question, you've got to weigh up cost, weight etc.

The JC120 would be one SS amp famed for its own individual tone, but its not a cheap amp itself.

Kenny_D

+1 for the JC-120

Have one myself and its the best clean amp I've ever heard and played through. Great for vocals and acoustic guitar too. Takes pedals wonderfully. I run a gt8 in front of mine in one channel and my acoustic or vocals through another channel. Not too cheap but keep an eye out for a second hand one. I got mine on adverts.ie for a great price

Frankiestylee

colm_r wrote:

thanks for all the feedback - deaddonkey & paladin confirmed what I was already thinking

...yeah and even more people said the opposite

So Glad

Hmm, I own a solid state Marshall 50 watt and I can get amazing cleans from it, although through a PODxt first, of course. I use solid states when I jam in rehearsal rooms too and they are even better (given I turn up a decent bit). But I've never played a tube amp so I wouldn't know. :eek:

Eoin Madsen

colm_r wrote:

A hopefully simple question - is there a big difference between tube amps and solid state amps for clean sounds?

Much of the tube vs solid state discussion seems to be about how tube amps distort. Is there any advantage of tube amps if you are happy to use pedals for overdrive/distortion?

Consider that
1) 95% of the clean sounds on records you listen to were done with valve amps. The circuits are fundamentally different so a different sound is inevitable - better is a matter of opinion, but your ears probably are more used to hearing valve amps on record.
2) the two most defining clean sounds in the history of the electric guitar came from the Vox AC30 and the Fender Twin, both of which are all-valve amps.
3) The vast majority of solidstate amps are cheap crap, so it's easy to get the impression that there are no good ones, or that the solidstate technology is the reason why. I agree with Paladin, for the most part.
4) Most new valve amps are cheap crap so it's easy to get the impression that the clean sound is the same on all amps.
5) Pedals will cause saturation in the succeeding amp stages so most of the (subjective) advantages of distorting valves still exist when using pedals with a valve amp.

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote:

4) Most new valve amps are cheap crap so it's easy to get the impression that the clean sound is the same on all amps.

Most?

Youre not going to slip that by without backing it up. I just did a quick search on thomann for valve heads (bearing in mind thomann stock very few 'boutique' brands, so their stock will be biased towards your argument.

108 amps, by the end of the first 25 your are into well over a grand territory. ENGL, H&K, Soldano, HiWatt, Orange, Koch, Diezel, Mesa Boogie, Vox, Laney? (im taking these off the manufacturer column on the side).

Seriously, 'most new valve amps are cheap crap?' Unless by 'most' you mean 10%, 20% you're not correct at all.

Eoin Madsen

"Cheap" would be in reference to cost price, not retail price.

Neo#

I was trying a marshall jvm head there in music maker yesterday and I must say i was impresses. Best clean ive heard from a marshall. And that was at lower volumes too.

fourmations

hi all

whats a few best buys for home use then?

I know its all up the person, money, style, etc etc
but just throw a few good value models at me,

I am keeping an eye on classifieds

ta

4

Karl Hungus

I'd say a Pod XT of some variety. Very handy piece of kit.

Johnny M

Heres my 2 cents. Solid State = Sh*t State .
Put it like this , the difference between a solid state amp /’digi modelling’ amp like say a line 6 spider or vox valvetronix or whatever Vs. a pro tube amp like a Fender twin /Marhsall /ENGL etc ( even a small pro junior )I would explain as thus:

This is way more apparent for clean tones btw

Play your favorite riff through the ss or digi amp. Say you play it spot on …what does it sound like ? It sounds like a 2D cardboard cut-out .Most of the time its like its a pale imitation of the original, its thin sounding,harsh, lacking colour , articulation , depth & dynamics :O) Its basically not very musical.

Then plug in your axe into the pro tube amp. play the riff. BINGO . It sounds so much more like the record . Its much more ‘3D’. its articulate, it has that depth , muscle, articulation and colour. It reacts ..it has dynamics. It gives you a thrill .

Playing through the solid state the guitar sounds like a plank of wood with six strings.
Playing through the tube amp it sounds like its saying something, like its talking .

So I would describe it as 2D vs 3D sound wise.

Or maybe I’ve just been reading too many guitar mags !
Not but seriously I think ss amp should be outlawed . They’re awful ****e .(most of em)

I mean what pro player plays solid state onstage?

Karl Hungus

Johnny M wrote:

I mean what pro player plays solid state onstage?

What about Dimebag?

Seriously though, what solid state amps have you played that's given you such a venemous hatred for them?

feylya

Dimebag Darrell.

Bah, too slow. TBH, my opinion about tube vs solid has changed recently. Most people think cheap crappy amps that they started out on when they think solid state. If you get a decent, "expensive" solid state amp, it'll sound just as good, if not better, than a tube amp.

Voodu Child

feylya wrote:

If you get a decent, "expensive" solid state amp, it'll sound just as good, if not better, than a tube amp.

Can't say i agree there. I'm coming around to modellers more and more alright (im quite happy to use a microcube for practice and noodling), but if you're talking about non-modellers, I cant say there is an awful lot that i would put on an equal level, if you're talking purely about 'tone'.

Factor in price, weight & volume, and it gets a bit more complicated. I can definitely think of situations where some SS amps might be 'better'.

But if we're just talking tone, im trying to think of a 'expensive' SS amp that cuts the mustard, and the JC-120 is about all I can think of.

Johnny M

Karl Hungus wrote:

What about Dimebag?

Seriously though, what solid state amps have you played that's given you such a venemous hatred for them?

What does he play? I thought he played randall tube amps or Krank amps? are they not tube... If the kranks are ss , they're damn expensive anyway!

I did caveat that the difference between ss & tube is more apparent for clean sounds imo. Heavier distorted tones its not as apparent maybe but you can still tell. For heavy sounds I wouldnt mind as much . The recto sounds on my cube60 was pretty bitchin. but the cleans &od tones didnt have it for me.

I've tried plenty ss amps in rehearsal studios all around dublin ..peavey bandits (not bad), STINGERS !!:rolleyes: (aptly named -slice your eardrums like a razor) carsboro's and other ****e out in soundlease..fender FM's , roland JC & marshalls in crumlin..vox VTs in loop. On the whole they're all cheap sh*t to my ears. just not inspiring .But you gotta start somewhere I guess.

Karl Hungus

The Randalls that Dime played were all solid state as far as I know. I don't think he really played the Kranks much at all, just right at the end, but those are tube.

Hmm, things like the Peavey Bandits aren't all that great though, and for the price, I doubt you'd get a comparable Tube amp. Same goes for the Fender FM's. None of those are really top of the line.

Personally, I've not that much experience with solid state, aside from a little Laney I once had, my experience mostly lies with tube and digital amps, but I think they've both got their place and have their advantages.

For example, here's Chris Broderick getting some lovely cleans from his ENGL, which is all tube. Awesome tone, which I absolutely love. Now have a listen to the "Clean" sample I have here, which I recorded with a Microcube! That's all, just a Microcube. I also think this is a good tone, although my playing certainly doesn't match Chris's.

-=al=-

Yeah i thought dime used SS amps a lot of the time if not all, and to be honest i never liked his tone at all, his cleans were ok, but neither of them were for me, keep it tube

It wasn't me!

A good amp is a good amp, and there are good solidstates, and there are ****e valve amps out there. Frankly, the difference is much less apparent in clean than in distorted tones, and you included a Roland Jazz Chorus in your roundup of cheap **** solidstates? Oh dear... The amp famous for its clean tone, and often described as better than a Fender Twin. Not really sure what clean tone you're looking for man...

fourmations

hi

little on-topic side line here........

i was ready to get Vox Da-5 but read up a bit
and am interested in the little epi valve jr.

the vox is a little modelling amp like the microcube
which is said to be better than the cube but the distortions
are not as good, the thing i like about the vox is that it has a feature
where it can output at 0.5w, 1.5w or the full 5w!!
the theory is that you can crank it at the lower outputs
without waking the baby and still get a cranked sound,

the epi is valve, thats all i know... and dearer

i have a gt6 on a long loan, so i have effects...

what do yis reckon,

rgds 4

colm_r

You can see a pretty good video demo of the epi valve junior here - http://www.gearwire.com/epiphone-valve-junior-lab.html

It's worth looking at to get an idea of the sound of the amp.

Kenny_D

feylya wrote:

Dimebag Darrell.

Bah, too slow. TBH, my opinion about tube vs solid has changed recently. Most people think cheap crappy amps that they started out on when they think solid state. If you get a decent, "expensive" solid state amp, it'll sound just as good, if not better, than a tube amp.

Agreed and Johnny is wrong (Solid State != Sh*t State). I have had a Peavey Classic 50 and an ENGL Screamer 50. Both very highly rated and high quality Class-A valve amps. I now have a Roland JC-120, a solid state amp. The JC-120 is by far my favourite. It's known for its clean sound and its chorus and imo it does that better than both of the highly acclaimed valve amps. A cheap valve amp is gonna sound ****e next to a high end solid state amp. Don't believe the hype!! I will say however that there is nothing like a good overdriven class-a valve amp (not a cheap one) in terms of that overdriven valve crunch. Each persons needs will be different. Also my JC-120 may not have any proper distortion built in but is the best amp I've ever put effects through so I'm more than happy with external distortion pedal sounds

TelePaul

fourmations wrote:

hi

little on-topic side line here........

i was ready to get Vox Da-5 but read up a bit
and am interested in the little epi valve jr.

the vox is a little modelling amp like the microcube
which is said to be better than the cube but the distortions
are not as good, the thing i like about the vox is that it has a feature
where it can output at 0.5w, 1.5w or the full 5w!!
the theory is that you can crank it at the lower outputs
without waking the baby and still get a cranked sound,

the epi is valve, thats all i know... and dearer

i have a gt6 on a long loan, so i have effects...

what do yis reckon,

rgds 4

The epi valve junior has a boxy sound because the speaker is so small.If you have an EQ pedal or TS/SD1 it'll help.

Savman

It all depends what you're into. End of bickering

-=al=-

Ive a Mg30 it rocks my socks :cool:


actually i lent it to a guy a few months ago, ive no idea where it is =/

Paladin

I took an MG30 from a buddy who couldnt afford to pay back a loan. Gave it away for free. I dont know an amp I like less
Just goes to show how different opinion is on tone

Johnny M

ah yes ..just goes to show good tone is subjective!
I tried a JC120 in kross studios crumlin ..and hated it !!
Then again all the mags say its a classic for clean sounds.
But thats the only classic solid state amp they ever talk about.

Again the proof for me is would be to look at the pro players...how many of them play solid state amps? so far we have 1 so far , Dime and as a metal player I doubt he's too worried about cleans. proof is in the pudding as they say.

Still I vote Tube for clean and I'd say fender is top of the list for that.

fish-head

Savman wrote:

It all depends what you're into. End of bickering

The man has spoken.

Frankiestylee

Fight the man mannnnn

SirLemonhead

The JC-120s can sound pretty sterile though.

And Dimebag had horrendous tone

Kenny_D

MasterOfSolos wrote:

The JC-120s can sound pretty sterile though.

..if the EQ isnt set right. It's a very treble heavy amp but with the right EQ it's fantastic