Parking Ticket - Legal Beagle Required.

wotsasilencer

First of all let me state my absolute guilt to this offence. I completely forgot to buy a ticket from the machine as I normally avoid going into town.

Now the last time I had one of those scratch off disk thingys however there are now some of these solar powered devices that you put money in and out pops a wee square ticket.

I have been charged with "12 Parking a vehicle in a disc parking place without displaying a valid parking disc.;"

Here is my question....As parking discs are no longer available (you used to buy them in the shops in a book of 10) is this still a valid charge?

You see I am so pissed off with all the complicated rules that one has to live by to just exist I feel like Don Quixote chasing windmills but I will not let the rulemakes off the hook if they have not got it right - after all I pay my taxes for these muppets to get it right first time.

Wossack

you're arguing that you've been charged with not displaying a circular parking ticket, in a place that only provides square ones? thats a new one by me...

wotsasilencer

Spot on - they should amend the wording to reflect the offence

Victor

What council area were you ticketed in?

I suspect you are going to lose this one.

Some towns courts are so swamped ignoring the fine could be the best option.
This has been the case in some towns in Kildare for years, the summons never comes... if you are lucky.
Just sayin is all..

Alun

In Bray, where I live, they did away with the old "discs" probably over a year ago now. Despite this there are still big signs on the main roads entering Bray proclaiming that Bray is a "Disc parking zone", and informing you where you can buy them, and many parking areas still have signs up saying "disc parking area" or such like. I once collared a parking warden in Bray town centre once and complained about this, and he genuinely didn't seem bothered or concerned. Mind you, I've regularly seen him walk straight by cars parked in bus stops and on double yellows without a care in the world, so that's no real surprise.

seamus

In this Part—

"disc parking place" has the meaning assigned to it by section 90 (2) (c) of the Road Traffic Act, 1961; "parking disc" means a disc or document, or a combination of both, having marks or symbols capable of indicating the year, date and time when the disc, document or combination becomes a valid parking disc;

"valid parking disc" means a parking disc which—

( a ) has been issued by a local authority,
( b ) has been perforated so as to indicate clearly the year, month, day in the month, hour of the day and (to the nearest five-minute period) minute of the hour of the commencement of a period of parking of the vehicle in which the disc is exhibited in accordance with these rules,
( c ) indicates no other year, month, day, hour or minute, and
( d ) indicates that the vehicle is so parked for a period not exceeding the period for which it may be parked in a disc parking place in accordance with these rules.

The yoke you buy from the machine would seem to fit the criteria necessary to be called a "parking disc"

John Mason

i dont think ignoring the ticket is a good idea. i have a friend who has an english reg. car and decided that they would be able to trace her, she parked where ever she wanted in bray/dun laoighaire, DVLA traced her to her parents place in england and 4 years worth of parking fines all came at once .........there is a lesson to be learnt here

craichoe

Unfortunatly .. Parking DISCS are not round ...

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/roads/acc_html/corkcity_parking.html

I thought the same thing, but they were never round !

Alun

craichoe wrote:

Unfortunatly .. Parking DISCS are not round ...

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/roads/acc_html/corkcity_parking.html

I thought the same thing, but they were never round !

Here's an example of what I always thought was a Parking disc. Quite common in mainland Europe as well.

http://www.harrogate.gov.uk/immediacy-1308

craichoe

Alun wrote:

Here's an example of what I always thought was a Parking disc. Quite common in mainland Europe as well.

http://www.harrogate.gov.uk/immediacy-1308

Aye but its the definition in law as to what is a valid "Parking Disc" not what you thought it was.

wotsasilencer

disk also disc (dĭsk) Pronunciation Key
n.
A thin, flat, circular object or plate.
Something resembling such an object: The moon's disk was reflected in the pond.

The disk used in a disc brake.
A disk used on a disk harrow.
A magnetic disk, such as a floppy disk or hard disk.
The data stored on such a disk: read the disk that came with the manual.
A round, flattened, platelike structure in an animal, such as an intervertebral disk.
Botany The enlarged area bearing numerous tiny flowers, as in the flower head of composite plants, such as the daisy. Also called discus.
Computer Science
A magnetic disk, such as a floppy disk or hard disk.
The data stored on such a disk: read the disk that came with the manual.
An optical disk, especially a compact disk. See Usage Note at compact disk.
A phonograph record.
A circular grid in a phototypesetting machine.

seamus

The law doesn't take its definitions from the dictionary. You can't argue a point of law based on what a particular dictionary publisher decided the correct definition of "disc" was.

Stephen

I don't think they care about the definition of "disc". Look at our insurance "discs"! They've got a lot of right angles for something that's circular by definition

craichoe

In this Part—

"disc parking place" has the meaning assigned to it by section 90 (2) (c) of the Road Traffic Act, 1961; "parking disc" means a disc or document, or a combination of both, having marks or symbols capable of indicating the year, date and time when the disc, document or combination becomes a valid parking disc;

"valid parking disc" means a parking disc which—

( a ) has been issued by a local authority,
( b ) has been perforated so as to indicate clearly the year, month, day in the month, hour of the day and (to the nearest five-minute period) minute of the hour of the commencement of a period of parking of the vehicle in which the disc is exhibited in accordance with these rules,
( c ) indicates no other year, month, day, hour or minute, and
( d ) indicates that the vehicle is so parked for a period not exceeding the period for which it may be parked in a disc parking place in accordance with these rules.

This is what matters, they've defined what they mean as a "Parking Disc"

So their covered from a Legal Standpoint, from the other aspect, i dont see how its confusing if you need to display one of these to park.

Stephen

Triple post snappage.

wotsasilencer

But even where you say perforated in your definition there are no perforations.....

Am I to assume therefore a square ticket with no perforations comes under your definition.

I seriously do not get it - If they want to do me (which they have every right to do so) have they got no responsibility to get it right? A disc is a disc is a disc. To look at this logically, were I to get planning permission from the council for a square house and built a circular house they would be very quick coming round my house to complain......

testicle

irishbird wrote:

i dont think ignoring the ticket is a good idea. i have a friend who has an english reg. car and decided that they would be able to trace her, she parked where ever she wanted in bray/dun laoighaire, DVLA traced her to her parents place in england and 4 years worth of parking fines all came at once .........there is a lesson to be learnt here

I severely doubt such an occourance happened. Wicklow and South Dublin County Councils can't even bring Irish people to court over parking fines, not to mind liase with Swansea for GB cars.

Sangre

seamus wrote:

The law doesn't take its definitions from the dictionary. You can't argue a point of law based on what a particular dictionary publisher decided the correct definition of "disc" was.

Well actually you can. Just not in cases where it has already been clearly defined in legislation.

craichoe

Can somebody tell me why a floppy disk is square then ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floppy%20disk

andrew_ireland

Not to go off topic (sorry) but a floppy disc is circular, it's just the casing that's square.

MrPudding

craichoe wrote:

Can somebody tell me why a floppy disk is square then ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floppy%20disk

The bit that is floppy and classically disk shaped is inside the non floppy non classically disk shaped protective case.

MrP

MrPudding

testicle wrote:

I severely doubt such an occourance happened. Wicklow and South Dublin County Councils can't even bring Irish people to court over parking fines, not to mind liase with Swansea for GB cars.

I don't doubt it at all. Not surewhat the DVLA connection is but Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown use these guys:

http://www.epcplc.com/uk/home/index.php

Tracking people down in other countries for simple parking fines is what they do.

MrP

smash

This argument is moronic!

Seth Brundle

Maybe for the craic they will send you a circular shaped summons!

parsi

craichoe wrote:

Unfortunatly .. Parking DISCS are not round ...

http://www.corkcity.ie/ourservices/roads/acc_html/corkcity_parking.html

I thought the same thing, but they were never round !

That's the newer model.

The older ones were about the size of a POP envelope and had a clockface (disc) to mark out your time and other little circles to perforate for day/month/year

testicle

MrPudding wrote:

The bit that is floppy and classically disk shaped is inside the non floppy non classically disk shaped protective case.

MrP

The classic, as you put it, floppy disk was 5.25" and had a protective casing that was indeed floppy.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steve06 wrote:

This argument is moronic!

Here, here, the whole thread has gone that way.:p

wotsasilencer

Be fair - I started the thread and it was moronic from the start I'm just hoping to antagonise the council before telling them that my friend who was over from England was driving at the time.

Seth Brundle

Just make sure that the council/gardai don't read your posts on here and figure you out for a liar!
Anyhow how can you use the excuse that someone else was driving with a parking ticket

Pherekydes

craichoe wrote:

Can somebody tell me why a floppy disk is square then ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floppy%20disk

This is a classic; should get its own thread in AH and computers.

OP: you haven't a leg to stand on. It's your car that was parked illegally; if you can you should prevail upon your friend wot parked it to cough up.

wotsasilencer

The other stupid thing on this ticket says "4.(1) If you were not driving or otherwise using the vehicle referred to in the notice at the time of commission of the alleged offence you must, as required by S.3(3) of the Local Authorities (Traffic Wardens)Act 1975-"

Well I was not driving it - I was nowhere near it. I was in the Pub getting pissed with my mates from England. It was Taxed to be on the public road and thats where I left it so I could have some beers and get a taxi home.

Therefore I was not driving it - I had ceased driving it. Nor was I using it as I was in the pub. I had abandoned it temporarily.

G Luxel

Dun Laoghaire/rathdown council should be doing other things like solving the traffic jams than using the services of some company to track down people from say Kazakstan and issuing them with a parking ticket, total waste of money.
What I do notice with this scratch disks is that sometimes the disk has already been scratched lightly possibly in transit to the shopkeeper so you could be fined even though your key didnt scratch out that silvery I0 when you scratched out a 9. The time is in 24 hours and it is easy to make a mistake with I5 hours instead of marking I7 hours as it happened to me once as I thought I5 meant 5 o clock:o oh well silly me but I think that the parking meters are a better form and closer form of payment than going to the shops on a Monday morning and discovering that there are no disks available and returning to your car and finding a ticket even if the warden couldnt be bothered listening to your story.

maidhc

If the 1961 Act is the current piece of legislation, the fact the new machines do not perforate the paper would make an interesting argument.

Forget the roundness bit.

Victor

wotsasilencer wrote:

The other stupid thing on this ticket says "4.(1) If you were not driving or otherwise using the vehicle referred to in the notice at the time of commission of the alleged offence you must, as required by S.3(3) of the Local Authorities (Traffic Wardens)Act 1975-"

Well I was not driving it - I was nowhere near it. I was in the Pub getting pissed with my mates from England. It was Taxed to be on the public road and thats where I left it so I could have some beers and get a taxi home.

Therefore I was not driving it - I had ceased driving it. Nor was I using it as I was in the pub. I had abandoned it temporarily.

Parking is part of driving.

yayamark

just pay it and u'll know then they'll be no summons coming in your postbox

isn't that a lot easier especialy when u say u don't do it regularly:D