Letter in the Independent

cast_iron

Interesting letter in the Indo from a UCD student as to what life is like in Belfield for some people.

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The lonely life of a college student

College can be one of the best times of your life.
I have always thought of College as a place to meet new friends, go out, stay away from home, penniless and not really caring or worrying about anything.
But I have seen a very different side to it, a side that helps you understand why student suicide is so high.
I go to College every day wondering how I am going to spend all day here.
Sometimes I would go a whole day without talking to one single person. Not one conversation.
I sit in lectures on my own, not even listening to what's going on, just counting down the minutes till the end.
I sometimes wish someone would make conversation with me and other times I am worried that I will have to talk, finding it easier saying nothing, yet all the more depressing.
I know that my class don't dislike me; they just don't know me to like me. I do know that if I decided to leave tomorrow I most certainly would not be missed. No one would notice.
I know why I am in college.
Not because I want to but it's because my parents want me to.
My parents are the sole reason why I go to college every morning, why I stay in late some nights "studying" and why I don't work as much.
At home I have loads of friends, although no best friend. I have a lot of people who I can call my friend and they all have best friends but when I am asked who my best friend is, I have no answer. That doesn't really bother me. I am a happy and confident person in many ways but I can also be a quiet and unhappy person if in the wrong situation.
Thank God I am strong and happy in my own company, otherwise I don't know what I would do.
I have an idea of what some might consider.
I have never really thought seriously about it but I can see why so many do. Suicide is a cry for help, a cry that can only be answered when it's too late.
Many people have a great time in college and I know loads that do. But many don't. These are the people that are on the brink, they think they are forgotten about and feel left out in many ways. Some feel so left out that they feel like they can't cope.
College can also be really lonely and one of the worst times of your life.
SARAH BRADY,
BELFIELD,
DUBLIN

Chakar

I think that is a great letter. The transition from secondary school to university can be quite difficult. Its a whole restructuring of your life, adjusting to a totally different schedule, lifestyle and style of learning. The social side of college can be challenging when you have to make new friends etc.

Riamfada

Im sorry. As heartfelt as it is I cant help but wonder has this girl tried to branch out and meet people in college. UCD is a big place with plenty of opportunities. College is what you make it. Its all about getting involved. We all come here on the same footing.

"Sometimes I would go a whole day without talking to one single person. Not one conversation."

There is your problem. Join a club, join Belfieldfm. Were always open, especially to people who dont know many others around campus because we were all like that once.

Life is like that for most of us in Belfield on day one .

Tan Princess

Thats nonsense grimes I tried to join clubs and societys but alot of them are cliques and hard to get into. Its very very hard if you've spent a few months in college having a tough time to then have the strength to attempt to break into a club or society. People who have friends already suggest clubs and societys its not that easy.

Riamfada

Not exactly. Yeah I admit that some clubs and societies are cliques and whatnot but not all of them are. As I said with regards BFM u join up, you generally get put with 2 or 3 people to do a show with . It helps people to get to know eachother. But thats just us. I have also had bad experiences with societies but it didnt stop me trying.

For the record I spent alot of time alone in all my lectures because the people I knew in UCD were 2nd and 3rd years when I got there. It was only this year that I got sick of sitting alone and started talking to two girls in my class and sitting beside them. Then two more joined and two more. Now a few months later we are a big group of friends who all spent first year sitting alone. Its simply a matter of making conversation.

Waltons

Grimes wrote:

For the record I spent alot of time alone in all my lectures because the people I knew in UCD were 2nd and 3rd years when I got there. It was only this year that I got sick of sitting alone and started talking to two girls in my class and sitting beside them. Then two more joined and two more. Now a few months later we are a big group of friends who all spent first year sitting alone. Its simply a matter of making conversation.

I don't really think it's this simple. I went to a Jazzsoc event at the beginning of first year and, by chance, one of the guys at it ended up being in one of my classes. I guess this was just lucky though, since I'm not a particular regular at jazzsoc things.
With regards to just talking to people though, in some classes you can make the effort and talk to someone, but due to the size of the class you may rarely see that person again.

Jonny Arson

Grimes wrote:

"Sometimes I would go a whole day without talking to one single person. Not one conversation."

There is your problem. Join a club, join Belfieldfm. Were always open, especially to people who dont know many others around campus because we were all like that once.

You're presuming she has made f**k all effort.
Maybe she has joined clubs and societies and had not found them welcoming or has found her niche? (I've joined cliquey, unwelcoming as f**k ones every year!)
Maybe she has made an effort to start small talk with that sound randomer next to her in a lecture only to never see them again? (I'd say this has happened about 200 times with me!)
Maybe she is in huge lectures of hundreds of people where there is sweet fcuk all course community or atmosphere in her course? (Which is Arts)
Maybe she hasn't started in UCD with a legion of friends from school? (Most people start here knowing loads of people making the settling in process easier)

It isn't easy. You don't know what effort she has made, you don't know her college cirumstances so don't be presumptious.
It's different for everyone, no one starts here in UCD on the same footing. Some people will fit in here like a glove and some people never talk to anyone over 3/4 years. That is UCD. It's a massive college so unfortunately isolation is inevitable. If UCD was so open, friendly and easy to fit in then there wouldn't be girls so upset writing letters like this into newspapers. There is a major issue with isolation in this college and it is becoming a borderline taboo issue and blaming unsettled students for factors often beyond their control is downright unfair.

I was like that in 1st year, I hated every moment in UCD. I broke my bollix joining clubs/societies and starting conversations with people, got nothing in return so when I hear the ''UCD is what you make of it'' line it annoys the fcuk out of me. If it wasn't for one friend and some aquaintances (and some boardsies!) I'd probably talk to nobody out here. I know a couple of 1st year Arts students who dropped out this year for similar reasons, there is a problem. High droput rates particularly within informal courses like Arts indicate to me too many students are dropping out for non-academic reasons and this badly needs to be adressed by the college and our SU. I feel modularisation is only making things worse so I sadly expect isolation in UCD to only rise.

Fair play to that girl for writing that letter and revealing her name, she has alot of courage.

Riamfada

I assume Johnny, that if she had made an effort, she would have highlighted it in her letter. She makes no mention of ever attempting anything.

humbert

If you make an effort to chat to people you'll make friends. Talking to strangers takes confidence especially if some attempts are not greeted warmly. It's very easy to be anonymous in UCD and it has one of the coldest, hollowest, social environments I've experienced. I've met plenty of people who I like and who's company I enjoy but it took a long time.

I've been s student in one other college and hung around with people quite a bit from another two and have found the environment in all the others to be a lot warmer.

That's just my opinion, but I think anyone who thinks the experience described in that article is unique, or even rare, is a bit naive.

Sangre

I can never relate to people in these situations.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I know why I am in college.
Not because I want to but it's because my parents want me to.
My parents are the sole reason why I go to college every morning, why I stay in late some nights "studying" and why I don't work as much.

that's her problem, right there. If she enjoyed what she was doing, she'd have a much better time of it. She should pack it in, think about what she wants to do that would make her happy and then do it.

The_Minister

Sangre wrote:

I can never relate to people in these situations.

I heart Sangre.

seraphimvc

indeed a great letter.and a matter of fact is,i believe mostly every human on earth did try this:
''Sometimes I would go a whole day without talking to one single person. Not one conversation."
one or two days in his/her life.needless to say you are in this big big school.;) on the day that people have really few classes ,they barely show up and none of your friends dont bother to come in?

yes,admit that,we did have some bad days in our life.therefore,we try to work it out.we try some changes.if we want something,we try our best to get it.

and,please ,stop saying that she herself is the problem.

have you ever 'actively' talk to someone (not when the school starts!!but after few months you get your own 'gang' of friends) in the school?
actively making some new friends (not in the pub!!and of course without any help of alcohol) in the school?
join some clubs and societies??ever wonder why some newbies only show up once at the club and disappear from tat day?simple,the club p*ssed them off.some people could be so happy in there ,but,the fact is,some people ,just,dont.
lots of question you should ask yourselves.

i feel really lucky that i have met some good friends since the start of the year.and ,of course,since i have realised all the issues above,i try my best for being a friendly person.always smile,talk with classmates/coursemates if there is a chance...blahblah...

make a change,if you love this school,make it a better school.
and please ,no more spanking.in forum or in reality.

p/s:claps for Jonny Arson,totally agree with you.:D

stolenwine

I agree with her sentiments alot of people seem to arrive in u.c.d with a group of friends from secondary school and stay in their own little cliques. I'm lucky to be in a small class, i know everyone at least to say hello to.

She really needs to stand up to her parents, think of a few years from now when she has to find a job and they're putting on an equal amount pressure to force her into a particular career area. That ain't living.

Blowfish

seraphimvc wrote:

and,please ,stop saying that she herself is the problem.

But the problem is hers though.

I'm speaking completely from experience here. I'm not particularly outgoing, And I did have days at the very start of college that were a bit like hers. I came into UCD without any of my friends from school, and I didn't really make any friends here until a good few weeks in.

She has to realise that it will be difficult, it will feel completely awkward and uncomfortable to start a converstation with a randomer, she will have to keep trying again and again. It doesn't get any easier, but it is worth it in the end.

If she doesn't, she will simply stay miserable, every day will be as depressing as the last and she will eventually drop out, i've seen it happen far too many times.

She will be far better off if she does do it, not just in college but in any other situation among a large group where she doesn't know anybody.

Red Alert

I'd echo alot of what people have said above. From four years of UCD, i've come across a lot of people who everyone just didn't even know existed.

I was lucky when i came that a lot of the guys from my school came too. About 10 were in engineering. Bizarrely i'm still friends with the first non-school person i talked to.

I think the belfield campus is the real offender, plus the spread-out timetables and lack of any school/department 'spirit'. The eng building is a bit better than most, in that a lot of people would know one another by name etc. Also courses with longer hours and more structured things like labs you tend to get to know people a lot better. I met a good few people through just hanging around in the computer room.

Stabshauptmann

Sangre wrote:

I can never relate to people in these situations.

My hero :rolleyes:

The rolleyes is there just because I know how much you hate them.

panda100

humbert wrote:

I've been s student in one other college and hung around with people quite a bit from another two and have found the environment in all the others to be a lot warmer.

.

Really agree with humberto here.
I read the letter and was really suprised that the indo actually published it but Im glad they did.
I really feel for the girl and am sure there is many others in UCD just like her. Her letter actually reminded me a lot of my freshers guide article 'Feeling blue in UCD'.
I have a motion going through council this week to ensure that something is done about deppresion and suicde on campus so hopefully that will make a differnce next year.

However,I think the fundemental difference we could make is If we were all nicer and friendlier to each other. If you see someone in your lectures by themselves it wont hurt to go over and say 'hello' or give them a smile!

Steibhin

Sangre wrote:

I can never relate to people in these situations.

You are a very lucky person.

I can idendify very strongly with many the emotions expressed in that letter. Not so much now, but definetly in the past. People can suffer from chronic lack of self confidence and joining a club or soc is not going to solve any of that. Depression is rife in Irelands third level insitutions. Just ask the counselling services about how overstreched they are. Of course they people who are in counselling represent only a fraction of the population of with problems.

I wish those who are so critical of this poor girl and others like her whose voices are seldom heard could just try to be a little bit more understanding and take on board what she is saying. Life is not that black and white. If you are like Sangre and are one of the lucky ones then maybe try smiling at people tomorrow, open door for someone you don't know, look them in the eye and make them realise that they are there and that you at least have noticed them (that sounds like something from the last 2 mins of Oprah.. but I mean it).

Unfortunately University life is not a happy carefree 3 or 4 years for everyone and well done to the author of this letter for reminding us of that.

pretty*monster

I agree with Sangre (and I never thought I'd say that). I knew only one person when I started in ucd and we ended up not spending a lot of time together because of different courses, interests, etc. I had to go out and make friends on my own and get involved in things on my own. When I got involved in the union in second year I did that on my own as well. I felt really lonely at times, but the trick is not to wallow in those feeling and keep at it until low and behold you wake up one morning and discover you know so many people in college that it takes you hours to walk to the student centre because you know so many people.

Yes there are cliques (but cliques are not necessarily a bad thing, they are a sign that that a particular group are good friends, in fact I ended up drinking with the dramsoc clique a few month ago who are quite possibly the cliquiest clique in ucd but still very lovely and not at all unwelcoming of strangers in their midst) and there are strangers and so forth but really, what do you expect? You're new, nobody knows you, you have to break through that step by step.
It's normal to feel a bit awkward at first, you wander around a bit lost and not knowing quite what to say. But there you go, you never gain anything in life without a bit of pain along the way.

It is the letter writers problem, and I don't mean that as an attack on her. UCD is full of friendly people. Clubs and societies want members to get involved and make friends. If this girl doesn't realise that the problem lies with her then she'll never enjoy her college experience to the full, she has to suck it up and honestly just try harder.

To be honest the tone of her letter suggests that her problems extends beyond her experience in ucd.

Red Alert

p*m might have hit on something there - i think cliqueyness is often in the eye of the beholder, once you actually say hi to them they'll be very nice and welcoming.

Sangre

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

My hero :rolleyes:

The rolleyes is there just because I know how much you hate them.

Oh, I'm sorry. What I meant to say was its all UCD's fault.

pretty*monster

Again on the notion that societies and clubs are cliquey (sorry, but the assertion really grinds my gears). Societies and clubs need new recruits every year, if they don't have a team of new recruits to attend their events, stick up their posters, do the grunt work, and take on committee positions next year they're pretty much screwed. Why do you think societies come out to the freshers tent, organise inaugural receptions, offer you a load of free stuff and do push ucd's alcohol policy to the limit in order to get freshers hammered for free in? Ok part of it is to get your two euros but they also want you!

Also every almost every society committee member remembers the first time they went to a society event knowing almost know one (I made a complete and utter tit of myself at the first philosophy society wine reception and still cringe at the memory) and felt awkward. They're not angels but they do try their best to get people on board.

It's all about persistence really. I got semi-involved with a certain society in the early days of first year but because I thought it was cliquey, I never really made the effort and thus didn't make friends or felt like I fit in. Luckily I found the philsoc which I fitted into much quicker and I have no regrets. But two and a half years on I'm not involved with the first society but I'm friends with many of its members including the bloke who was auditor when I was in first year, so if I' had stuck it out in the first place I probably would have made really good friends out of it. It's all about sticking with it and making the effort. Even when you really really don't want to go to the next event because you make such an awful tit out of yourself at the last one...

Youswine

Grimes wrote:

Im sorry. As heartfelt as it is I cant help but wonder has this girl tried to branch out and meet people in college. UCD is a big place with plenty of opportunities. College is what you make it. Its all about getting involved. We all come here on the same footing.

Grimes wrote:

I assume Johnny, that if she had made an effort, she would have highlighted it in her letter. She makes no mention of ever attempting anything.

Sangre wrote:

I can never relate to people in these situations.

Blowfish wrote:

But the problem is hers though.

pretty*monster wrote:

It is the letter writers problem, and I don't mean that as an attack on her. UCD is full of friendly people. Clubs and societies want members to get involved and make friends. If this girl doesn't realise that the problem lies with her then she'll never enjoy her college experience to the full, she has to suck it up and honestly just try harder.

To be honest the tone of her letter suggests that her problems extends beyond her experience in ucd.

Well thank you all very much for passing your expert judgement on this girl. Some of your holier than thou attitudes are appalling. I don't give a sh*t if some of you think you have all the answers, or think you can point the finger and identify with this girl's problems; that attitude is bull****.

The fact is, no matter who's fault it is, that people like this who have more difficulty than others in socialising, have just as much right to be catered for as all of you great people who wouldn't know sensitivity if it slapped you in the face.

This letter is a serious cry for help and most alarming. The reasons beind why she feels the way she does are irrevalent. The issue is that there are people who feel like this girl around us in this college, and that is most unacceptable.

I don't care if you guys think 'Well I was fine, so why should other people get special treatment'. Bull****. People are different from you. And they deserve to be catered for too. It's no wonder the rate of suicide among young people is so high in this country when you see responses like these to a letter like this.

The issue this thread should be focusing on; is how to change our environment and stop people from feeling this way. I don't care if some of you think that she shouldn't feel the way she does.

Blowfish

Youswine wrote:

The issue this thread should be focusing on; is how to change our environment and stop people from feeling this way. I don't care if some of you think that she shouldn't feel the way she does.

Nobody said anything about how she shouldn't feel the way she does, but more that it is actually possible for her to do something about it.

Youswine wrote:

This letter is a serious cry for help and most alarming. The reasons beind why she feels the way she does are irrevalent. The issue is that there are people who feel like this girl around us in this college, and that is most unacceptable.

Agreed 100%. That doesn't mean however that it is the colleges fault.

Youswine wrote:

The fact is, no matter who's fault it is, that people like this who have more difficulty than others in socialising, have just as much right to be catered for as all of you great people who wouldn't know sensitivity if it slapped you in the face.

I'll fully admit that I have more problems than 90% of people in socialising. It's bloody difficult and awkward, yet for my own sanity I know it has to be done. I have felt the same as she does, I still do from time to time both in college and out.

Youswine wrote:

The issue this thread should be focusing on; is how to change our environment and stop people from feeling this way. I don't care if some of you think that she shouldn't feel the way she does.

But thats the catch, I know it sounds cliched, but the person who can most help her, is her.

She mentioned that she finds it easier to not talk than to talk. When somebody tries to talk to her, that fact will come accross as her not wanting to talk to them. There is only so much others can do to change her situation.

I'm not saying that she should try and overcome it just because thats the way it should be. I'm saying it because I know from experience (mine, and others) that for her own sake she has to try desperately, despite how excruciating it can and will be, and that if she does she can have success.

elmyra

pretty*monster wrote:

Again on the notion that societies and clubs are cliquey (sorry, but the assertion really grinds my gears). Societies and clubs need new recruits every year, if they don't have a team of new recruits to attend their events, stick up their posters, do the grunt work, and take on committee positions next year they're pretty much screwed. Why do you think societies come out to the freshers tent, organise inaugural receptions, offer you a load of free stuff and do push ucd's alcohol policy to the limit in order to get freshers hammered for free in? Ok part of it is to get your two euros but they also want you!

Also every almost every society committee member remembers the first time they went to a society event knowing almost know one (I made a complete and utter tit of myself at the first philosophy society wine reception and still cringe at the memory) and felt awkward. They're not angels but they do try their best to get people on board.

It's all about persistence really. I got semi-involved with a certain society in the early days of first year but because I thought it was cliquey, I never really made the effort and thus didn't make friends or felt like I fit in. Luckily I found the philsoc which I fitted into much quicker and I have no regrets. But two and a half years on I'm not involved with the first society but I'm friends with many of its members including the bloke who was auditor when I was in first year, so if I' had stuck it out in the first place I probably would have made really good friends out of it. It's all about sticking with it and making the effort. Even when you really really don't want to go to the next event because you make such an awful tit out of yourself at the last one...

QFT.

Stabshauptmann

Sangre wrote:

Oh, I'm sorry. What I meant to say was its all UCD's fault.

The girls feeling down. *Maybe* depressed.

Now maybe her course/living arrangements/financial situation make it hard for her to socialise, maybe shes not the most confident/hasnt tried very hard.

But beside all that, nothing to do with whos fault it is that shes blue and lonely; I thought your post was just being a dick, and not in your usual funny way.

Everybody, no matter how great they are or how uberfantastic their life, feels down at some time or another. I'm sure you can relate to that.

I dont know the girl who wrote the letter or anything about her. But I think alot of the responses in this thread are the generic replys people give to those who are depressed (again, Im not saying that this particular girl is depressed in the clinical sense). Suck it up or deal with it are the ignorant types of advise many Irish people give to those who are sick (depression is an illness) and its part of why we have such high suicide rates.

DirkVoodoo

I can sympathise with the author and to some extent I have found myself in similar situations, the whole "surrounded by people but no one to talk to" syndrome.

However, it is easy to sit back and take an observer's role on your life, filling youself with pity because you are alone and no one understands you. Go up to people, talk, be yourself, maybe join a society or two.

Some of my best friends from college are people who I never thought I would get on with, and cant imagine getting on without now. I suppose I was fortunate to do something like engineering, where you are surrounded by the same people in all your classes/labs for 8 hours a day for 4 years. I can see how other courses like arts it may be hard to get to know people when there are just so many.

Sangre

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

But beside all that, nothing to do with whos fault it is that shes blue and lonely; I thought your post was just being a dick, and not in your usual funny way.

Yeah I'm a dick. How dare I not be able to relate to this because I always known people in UCD through school or the locality. How dare I never have been in her situation.

The girls feeling down. *Maybe* depressed.

Now maybe her course/living arrangements/financial situation make it hard for her to socialise, maybe shes not the most confident/hasnt tried very hard.

And maybe shes anti-social freak. Oh wait, I'm sorry we can only make assumptions if they're warm and cuddly.

Riamfada

Im totally with sangre on this one and not even going to entertain that "youswine" poster.

Whats with you people? Are you saying we should set up support the lonely and anti-social groups? (cough cough Niteline)UCD is a buidling with people in it. All in simular situations. Its a challenge making friends but the ownus is on each and every one of us to make the leap. Otherwise you wont get noticed and will remain friendless. I dont think its fair to attack people who dont blame UCD for her problems .


Those of you who attack this attitude are the maby crew.
"mabey she has other issues"
Im just going on whats written in the letter unless Sarah Brady states otherwise

Blut

If she doesnt even have the personality to stand up to her parents and decide what to do in college herself how can she expect other people to want to be friends with her? At 18/19/20 she should be able to decide what she wants to do with her life herself. Seems to me like its just another case of someone coming to UCD, putting in absolutely no effort and just moping around the place talking about how everything is everyone elses fault and not their own.

stolenwine

Blut wrote:

If she doesnt even have the personality to stand up to her parents and decide what to do in college herself how can she expect other people to want to be friends with her?

You don't know anyone who has been put under undue pressure by parents/guardians to change their principles,life choices, career direction?

In that case you don't have too many friends yourself.

Jonny Arson

Youswine wrote:

Well thank you all very much for passing your expert judgement on this girl. Some of your holier than thou attitudes are appalling. I don't give a sh*t if some of you think you have all the answers, or think you can point the finger and identify with this girl's problems; that attitude is bull****.

The fact is, no matter who's fault it is, that people like this who have more difficulty than others in socialising, have just as much right to be catered for as all of you great people who wouldn't know sensitivity if it slapped you in the face.

This letter is a serious cry for help and most alarming. The reasons beind why she feels the way she does are irrevalent. The issue is that there are people who feel like this girl around us in this college, and that is most unacceptable.

I don't care if you guys think 'Well I was fine, so why should other people get special treatment'. Bull****. People are different from you. And they deserve to be catered for too. It's no wonder the rate of suicide among young people is so high in this country when you see responses like these to a letter like this.

The issue this thread should be focusing on; is how to change our environment and stop people from feeling this way. I don't care if some of you think that she shouldn't feel the way she does.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The girls feeling down. *Maybe* depressed.

Now maybe her course/living arrangements/financial situation make it hard for her to socialise, maybe shes not the most confident/hasnt tried very hard.

But beside all that, nothing to do with whos fault it is that shes blue and lonely; I thought your post was just being a dick, and not in your usual funny way.

Everybody, no matter how great they are or how uberfantastic their life, feels down at some time or another. I'm sure you can relate to that.

I dont know the girl who wrote the letter or anything about her. But I think alot of the responses in this thread are the generic replys people give to those who are depressed (again, Im not saying that this particular girl is depressed in the clinical sense). Suck it up or deal with it are the ignorant types of advise many Irish people give to those who are sick (depression is an illness) and its part of why we have such high suicide rates.

Fantastic posts.

Some of the harsh and ignorant comments on this thread reinforces the theme of that girls' letter - people in this college just don't want to know about issues like this and can't be bothered to attempt to understand this girl's predicament and why she is in it, instead ''it's all her fault' :rolleyes:

Thank Christ some of you guys aren't training to become counsellors or social workers.....

Riamfada

For the record I was pushed into a course by my parents when I left college and didnt enjoy my original college (griffith) for the same reasons Sarah Brady dosnt enjoy UCD . Actually my predicament was scarily simular. I realised however that I had to escape that situation and the ownus was on myself to do so. I left Griffith and got a job. Now Im in UCD and make the effort to speak to people even though I often find it uncomfortable and daunting.
If some of you do not see it as her responsiblity to chose her own way and make her own friends can you please tell me who the ownus is on? Is it the bricks and mortar of UCD that causes the problem? The vast number of students in UCD? How do we tackle this then because as far as I can see those who sympatise with Mrs Brady show no signs of offering any real solution. More content to blame posters like myself and those who take responsiblity for their own actions.

Id appreciate no speculation as to Mr Brady's mental health, monitory status , her attempts to join clubs and societys or even speak to people in her class as she didnt state that she had attempted such measures before writing to the Independent

Riamfada

Youswine wrote:

have just as much right to be catered for

excuse me? how excatly do we cater for students with social problems? Set up multiple clubs and societies? Have a freshers tent? Or just send them a prepacked-friend on their first day of college? Hugh Brady should really get the finger out on this one! That bastard is trying to ruin the lives of honest introverts!

pFd

Sangre wrote:

And maybe shes anti-social freak. Oh wait, I'm sorry we can only make assumptions if they're warm and cuddly.

Your right, you are a dick.

Riamfada

pFd wrote:

Your right, you are a dick.

yes but he is also right

m1ke

I've seen a lot of this sort of isolation over the years in ucd and I have sympathy for the author. It mainly happens in the arts subjects but it can happen elsewhere too. Class sizes up to 500, constantly changing classes with different people everyday. Some of the posters on this thread are happy to make cheap generalisations and arrogant assumptions about the problem and lay the blame on individuals. It is just the sheer volume of people and their rapid turnover that is leading to the isolation of some individuals for many, many reasons.

Things will continue along this path unless there is some sort of basic restructuring of arts and other large faculties into units that are suited to socialising people. However, I don't see this happening as it is just too impractical. UCD is an institution that serves up education en masse and there are no resources to restructure our way out of the problem of large class sizes. People need to be aware of this before they go and not be led down the garden path, if you're not comfortable with yourself, sociable or able to mix like an adult outside of the school yard then you should not go to UCD.

Riamfada

m1ke wrote:

Some of the posters on this thread are happy to make cheap generalisations and arrogant assumptions about the problem and lay the blame on individuals.

Well by your logic then everyone who comes to UCD is isolated. However the majority combats "massive class sizes" and actually make interpersonal connections. Have people heard of tutorials? Class sizes of 6-10 people ? Always good to meet people. Study groups organised through blackboard. The option is there its just most people are too lazy to look at tada! Blame it on UCD and class sizes. Which I refuse to accept as a valid point.

funktastic

Tutorials aren't a good place to meet people. You meet every two weeks (in Arts subjects anyway) and people regularly don't turn up/drop out/have their own groups that they talk in already so they don't make an effort.

Riamfada

funktastic wrote:

Tutorials aren't a good place to meet people. You meet every two weeks (in Arts subjects anyway) and people regularly don't turn up/drop out/have their own groups that they talk in already so they don't make an effort.

well you cant say thats the same for all tutorial groups. With 6 subjects per semester therefore 6 tutorials or 24 in total its not that hard to spark up a conversation.


Places to meet people on campus

• Lectures
• Sports
• Societies
• Tutorials
• Student Political Parties (Shell to Sea , KBC ect)
• Study Groups
• Smoking Section :P (always full of lonesome smokers)

Anyone got a decent point against all of those social aspects ill change my tone. Until then ill keep stating college dosnt come with a pre planned social scene. You have to find people with the same interests and then make the effort to go to those groups.

G

pretty*monster

The fact is this girl will, at some point have to leave college and enter the workplace which has none of the safety nets that college has. She has to learn to stand on her own too feet, yes, some people need help standing on her own too feet, ucd provides advisers, chaplains, councillors, a psychiatrist and the union provide a welfare officer.

There comes a point where the fault lies with the individual. Denying this fact is something we see more in society and the results are overwhelmingly negative, if you deny an individuals personal responsibility for their own problems you rob them of the ability to solve them. people have to learn coping skills, they have to learn social skills. Contrary to what some of the posters on this board seem to think the way to deal with many emotional problems and depression is not to blame others or your circumstances but to take personal responsibility and positive action.

funky penguin

I was just thinking of this today (in a lecture... ¬_¬). Arts is a very inhospitable environment (socially) for someone joining the college by themselves. A hand full of lectures a week with the occasional tutorial? Bah!

Yes, I agree, societies and clubs are excellent at preventing mass depression and lonliness, but they're not for eveyone. Some 'Socially awkward' people can find it intimidating.

As already stated, in some cases it boils down to the person making a bold, positive move. Personally, throwing all the points about the social aspect of UCD out the window, thats what Sarah Brady has to do. She states the sole reason she is in UCD is because of her parents. She needs to talk to them.

Failing that, if you read boards Sarah, drop us a line and we'll all head out for a drink.

Tan Princess

pretty*monster wrote:

The fact is this girl will, at some point have to leave college and enter the workplace which has none of the safety nets that college has. She has to learn to stand on her own too feet, yes, some people need help standing on her own too feet, ucd provides advisers, chaplains, councillors, a psychiatrist and the union provide a welfare officer.

There comes a point where the fault lies with the individual. Denying this fact is something we see more in society and the results are overwhelmingly negative, if you deny an individuals personal responsibility for their own problems you rob them of the ability to solve them. people have to learn coping skills, they have to learn social skills. Contrary to what some of the posters on this board seem to think the way to deal with many emotional problems and depression is not to blame others or your circumstances but to take personal responsibility and positive action.

Thats nonsense. It's alot easier to make friends in work where there are small groups unlike Arts where there are huge lectures and few tutorials. What if someone isn't sporty? Or if they have a long commute and can't stay in late for society stuff?

Riamfada

Tan Princess wrote:

What if someone isn't sporty? Or if they have a long commute and can't stay in late for society stuff?

What if what if what if ?????! God thats annoying. What if they are DEAD and physically unable to make friends

Join a club or society (ad nauseum btw) and BANG there is your small group Alot of society stuff happens during the day and at weekends (what if they have to work at the weekend!?) . Do you want me to start listening examples of activities to do during the day?

So TanPrincess, what do you suggest these people do or have done for them?

Tan Princess

I suggest class reps in arts actually bother to organise class parties for a start.

Giblet

Grimes wrote:

What if what if what if ?????! God thats annoying. What if they are DEAD and physically unable to make friends

Join a club or society (ad nauseum btw) and BANG there is your small group Alot of society stuff happens during the day and at weekends (what if they have to work at the weekend!?) . Do you want me to start listening examples of activities to do during the day?

So TanPrincess, what do you suggest these people do or have done for them?

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

Riamfada

Giblet wrote:

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

Excuse me ? Im not being asked to relate to anyones problems? If you bothered to read the thread in its entireity you'd have seen my post "my heart goes out to the girl" but you are missing the point. Its not the fault of UCD that people feel excluded. There are 22000 people in UCD, are you telling me there is no one simular to yourself in the college to relate to? No friends to make? So if you want to get petty and call me a **** just shows your in depth knowledge of UCD and the thread in general


TanPrincess - Class parties would be more daunting no? Put some pressure on the class reps. Take some damn repsonsibility. Why is it always someone elses fault?!

pretty*monster

Giblet wrote:

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

You're right, we should all sit around and feel bad for the girl and be sure and only say nice things about her because as we all know ones problems are never one's own responsibility to solve.

humbert

Between attacking/condemning SB and defending her people have missed what she was saying. She's not complaining that she can't make friends! She's saying that it's possible to spend a long time in UCD without making friends.

Some people, including me at times, are not particularly sociable. They don't try to make friends, however what is significant about UCD is how easy it is to be a student here and never talk to people. While it may be in some people's nature to shy away from talking to people it's not healthy, it can lead to depression and nobody's to blame. Why does someone have to be to blame, it's a feature of the persons nature, that's all.

It's unfortunate and it wouldn't hurt for people to make an effort to chat to someone in their class that seems to spend a lot of time by themselves. It's particularly common in UCD for people to be ignored, because the college is so big and people are so anonymous here. The environment encourages people to feel comfortable paying little attention to someone next to them in a lecture theatre for example.


I'm not blaming anyone, blaming the masses for example. Who profits from assigning blame anyway.

funktastic

Well I think it is in the college's interest to make sure people don't feel excluded. It comes across in all areas of college life, from staff right down to students. The college are trying to make a more cohesive community and I've heard about this constantly from everyone from my six years here.

If the person is in first arts you would only have one tutorial in each subject every two weeks, that isn't an awful lot.

Financial situation also has a bearing. Yes it is free to a lot of societies but there is often drinks and stuff afterwards.

Also, have some consideration.How do you know what is going on in certain people's lives? Depression, death. Don't just say 'It isn't the college's fault' which you're going to say again right now, but sure...great