Addiction!

Tim Robbins

Well how's it going?
I gave up the Religion and Spirituality section of boards.ie for lent! I was thinking I was spending too much time on it and while a source of education and amusement it was getting out of control. It all came to head after lengthly debate with Scofflaw that kept me up until the early hours! I thought to myself what is the point in spending so much time arguing with people I don't even know. Now I haven't even gone near the Creation thread, so some of you posters most spend more time than me. I am actually terrified of going anywhere near that thread as if I get sucked in, it will zap another 2 hours a week out of my life and for what?

So to the people who spend a lot of time arguing and thinking about the non material world, do you ever think that you spend too much time arguing with people if not why do you spend so much time here?

What are you hoping to achieve or if you are not hoping to achieve something, what then is the enjoyment?

Asiaprod

Tim Robbins wrote:

What are you hoping to achieve or if you are not hoping to achieve something, what then is the enjoyment?

For me, its a community, I made friends here. And I learn a lot.

tuxy

Tim Robbins wrote:

So to the people who spend a lot of time arguing and thinking about the non material world, do you ever think that you spend too much time arguing with people if not why do you spend so much time here?

What are you hoping to achieve or if you are not hoping to achieve something, what then is the enjoyment?

Good question, I see atheists argue with theists non stop on here. Has anyone from either side ever been convinced by the others arguments?

Scofflaw

"Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went

Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust."

Well, it's certainly partly an addiction, but then I've always been addicted to conversation. This is almost better, because you can consider your response at somewhat greater length - so it's a bit like chess, too. It's certainly better than either watching TV or playing Quake. As to the question of "people you don't know" - hmm. In previous eras we might have been writing letters, rather than posting on a board, to people we'd never met in the flesh.

Does it achieve anything? I think we've pointed some people towards a better understanding of science, and a less anti-scientific understanding of the Bible. I think that's worthwhile, particularly since some of those people are in pastoral positions. It's inch at a time stuff, but Rome wasn't demolished in a day.

And yes, there are certainly times when the urge to get the last word in cuts into work/family/relationship/sleep time - but there's always something of which that is true.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DS

I'd echo what Scofflaw has said, and add that engaging in such debates can be very helpful in crystallizing your own beliefs. When you formulate an argument, you have to mentally define your beliefs, and confront yourself with questions you may not have otherwise considered. So while debating is obviously about convincing your opponent, it's also about convincing yourself.

Tim Robbins

DS wrote:

I'd echo what Scofflaw has said, and add that engaging in such debates can be very helpful in crystallizing your own beliefs. When you formulate an argument, you have to mentally define your beliefs, and confront yourself with questions you may not have otherwise considered. So while debating is obviously about convincing your opponent, it's also about convincing yourself.

Agree but why does one have to do this 5+ times a week on pretty much the same issue? Atheists often state you only have one life so make the most of it! I would agree with this but is making the most of it, thinking and arguing about one particular aspect of it, for a large amount of time? There's no social aspect to this, it's the same issue and yes there are some interesting discussions but some of the are just endless diatribes with people who don't know that much about what they are arguing about.

5uspect

Its a good point that there are better things to be doing than arguing here about the same thing over and over again. Maybe some people need to get it out of their system. Your pre-lent binge may be a good example.

And as herself once said, just ignore the loonies and they will eventually go away. The problem is in letting them have the place to spout their lies and not having a mechanism to properly chastise them.

I think there are enough people who post here regularly to ensure that we don't all spend every waking hour here.

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

Agree but why does one have to do this 5+ times a week on pretty much the same issue? Atheists often state you only have one life so make the most of it! I would agree with this but is making the most of it, thinking and arguing about one particular aspect of it, for a large amount of time? There's no social aspect to this, it's the same issue and yes there are some interesting discussions but some of the are just endless diatribes with people who don't know that much about what they are arguing about.

Ah. The Creationism thread! Yes indeed.

"I will not cease from mental fight;
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Til we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land "

At least partly for the humour value, though. That's not necessarily the most praiseworthy motive, but it's fun to see what sort of lunacy you can get people to commit.

shamefacedly,
Scofflaw

Dades

If I have something better to do than post here - I do it.

I suspect a lot of us spend inordinate amounts of time on the Net - and there are worse sites you could be on...

Congrats on your lentil(sp?) vigil!

Tim Robbins

The Atheist wrote:

If I have something better to do than post here - I do it.

I suspect a lot of us spend inordinate amounts of time on the Net - and there are worse sites you could be on...

Congrats on your lentil(sp?) vigil!

Some interesting comparisons:

* Irish Skeptics meet up get speakers, their skeptics forum receives little attention in comparison.
* Irish humanists meet up get speakers, participate in debates in the media, I don't think they even have a forum.
* Various religions, as we all know do more than the above. They also have nice buildings and include a musical element - they sing songs and sometimes write their own.
* Irish atheists (from boards.ie) - argue and discuss at great length with people they don't know and can't even put a face to and watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube.

I reckon we're the weirdos

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote:

Some interesting comparisons:

* Irish Skeptics meet up get speakers, their skeptics forum receives little attention in comparison.
* Irish humanists meet up get speakers, participate in debates in the media, I don't think they even have a forum.
* Various religions, as we all know do more than the above. They also have nice buildings and include a musical element - they sing songs and sometimes write their own.
* Irish atheists (from boards.ie) - argue and discuss at great length with people they don't know and can't even put a face to and watch Richard Dawkins videos on youtube.

I reckon we're the weirdos

Well if you want to write atheist songs, I'm sure that would be fine

JC 2K3

tuxy wrote:

Good question, I see atheists argue with theists non stop on here. Has anyone from either side ever been convinced by the others arguments?

I have to say that reading the internet, including many debates such as these was a large factor in my conversion to (agnostic) atheism.

I'm 18 and converted at 16 btw.

lostexpectation

JC 2K3 wrote:

I have to say that reading the internet, including many debates such as these was a large factor in my conversion to (agnostic) atheism.

I'm 18 and converted at 16 btw.

deverted?

JC 2K3

lol, is that even a word?

"converted" simply means changing from one set of beliefs to another.

Sangre

I'd never call reading a book or educating yourself a waste of time. This is no different. Its probably even more beneficial as you can see every arguement take shape, solidify and if the case be, dismantled by another. It really helps you build an opinion easier than reading a biased book or report where weak points can't be immediately called on.

Tim Robbins

Sangre wrote:

I'd never call reading a book or educating yourself a waste of time. This is no different. Its probably even more beneficial as you can see every arguement take shape, solidify and if the case be, dismantled by another. It really helps you build an opinion easier than reading a biased book or report where weak points can't be immediately called on.

Your argument is missing a very important parameter: time.
If someone spends a half an hour a week fair enough, but what if they spend an hour a day. There has to be a threshold which if exceeded, it smells of addiction.
As for books, usually a book, is well researched and argued by someone with some sort of expertise, but any fool can argue and spit out tripe on the internet. I am not saying here that everyone here is a fool but a large proportion of the arguments give an indication that people are just argumentative and seem more concerned about arguing about the same topic, rather than getting their facts straight.
What's more, as I point, it's arguing with strangers.
I'll try and get a song together at the weekend, I suggest other posters have a go at a song about atheism and we can post them up.

5uspect

Tim Robbins wrote:

Your argument is missing a very important parameter: time.
If someone spends a half an hour a week fair enough, but what if they spend an hour a day. There has to be a threshold which if exceeded, it smells of addiction.
As for books, usually a book, is well researched and argued by someone with some sort of expertise, but any fool can argue and spit out tripe on the internet. I am not saying here that everyone here is a fool but a large proportion of the arguments give an indication that people are just argumentative and seem more concerned about arguing about the same topic, rather than getting their facts straight.

Sure, I'd say that a lot of people come here initially to argue with those damn Christians. The anonymity that is there is often welcome considering that many of us come from Christian backgrounds where dissent was often frowned on by relatives.

The one thing that I've learned here through much of my arguing and mostly reading other's arguments is that there is an awful lot I don't know and I'm grateful that I have spend some time here to educate myself. Books can't help on their own and there are often too many books for one person. I see this place as more as time saver than a time waster.

Tim Robbins wrote:

I'll try and get a song together at the weekend, I suggest other posters have a go at a song about atheism and we can post them up.

I think Razorlight did well in fall to pieces:

Just wanna hear you say something that you believe to be true

You say you don't know, you don't know
You just say you don't know, you don't know

Tim Robbins

5uspect wrote:

I think Razorlight did well in fall to pieces:

Just wanna hear you say something that you believe to be true

You say you don't know, you don't know
You just say you don't know, you don't know

Would you or anyone else be on for posting your own song, all you need is a mic?

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

Your argument is missing a very important parameter: time.
If someone spends a half an hour a week fair enough, but what if they spend an hour a day. There has to be a threshold which if exceeded, it smells of addiction.

What's your TV-viewing like? Assuming you gave up TV time to post, is that a better or worse use of time?

Tim Robbins wrote:

As for books, usually a book, is well researched and argued by someone with some sort of expertise, but any fool can argue and spit out tripe on the internet. I am not saying here that everyone here is a fool but a large proportion of the arguments give an indication that people are just argumentative and seem more concerned about arguing about the same topic, rather than getting their facts straight.

I wish that were true. However, the publishing industry has the same rule as any media - what sells is what gets written. That means there are thousands of books on how evolution is wrong, and far fewer on how it's right.

Tim Robbins wrote:

What's more, as I point, it's arguing with strangers.

I was going to say that we get less starnge over time, but that's not quite true! Seriously though, it's no worse than any other form of correspondence. Three out of four of my closest male friends are in the UK, so I'm well used to conducting relationships by email/Skype etc. I can probably count on two hands* the number of days I've actually physically spent with each of them in the last decade.

*base 6

cordially,
Scofflaw

bonkey

Tim Robbins wrote:

Your argument is missing a very important parameter: time.
If someone spends a half an hour a week fair enough, but what if they spend an hour a day. There has to be a threshold which if exceeded, it smells of addiction.\

That threshold is the amount of time you can free up to spend as you choose.

Personally, I think a lot of the difficulty that people have with such threads is that they confuse discussion and argument. (This can include those involved in the threads).

Crucifix

bluewolf wrote:

Well if you want to write atheist songs, I'm sure that would be fine

Ahem ahem ahem...here goes

Welcome to our forum,
The fundies we ignore 'em,
If they argue then we'll bore 'em,
With a staunch sense of decorum

Chorus:
Ohhhhh, you'll love our crazy antics,
Even though were odd,
Ohhhhh, we'll get lost in semantics,
But we know there's no God


Well there may be men from Venus,
And they may well have seen us,
But if you quote Thomas Aquinas,
Well you can go suck my e-penis


....phew. Feel free to add to it, until it we have a ballad of epic proportions

5uspect

brilliant!

Scofflaw

...and while you may well fantasise
about your chance to proselytise,
we're resistant to Theology,
on account of our Biology...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dades

I wonder what atheist music sounds like if you play it backwards...

Scofflaw

The Atheist wrote:

I wonder what atheist music sounds like if you play it backwards...

Presumably it would involve the existence of dogs.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Beruthiel

Tim Robbins wrote:

do you ever think that you spend too much time arguing with people if not why do you spend so much time here?

I do not have the time to spend typing up large posts in this forum. I'd like to get more involved, but real life takes precedence, so I only have time for the odd short comment.
I'm a lurker though and tend to enjoy reading others comments which I find most enjoyable.

Crucifix
I presume that song will be done to heavy metal guitars