Can i get planning for this?

kmb

Hi all,I have a question regarding building on a site with a existing house which is now rubble.
I am thinking off buying a site from a friend which had a house and gardens etc years ago but has desintegrated into rubble with trees growing in it!!
Basically,what are my chances of getting planning using the original layout as the house is in the countryside and in a cul de sac.???
What should i do to increase my chances and what way should i go about things?
Should i clear the brambles,trees etc and get the local planners to check?

Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Kieran

muffler

Make a pre-planning enquirey. It costs nothing other than suppling a copy of the map of the area and a very rough layout of your proposals for the site. Submit this to your local planning office and they should give you a meeting with the planner to discuss your proposals

kmb

Hi muffler,Thanks for the response,would i be right thinking that as the house will be on the ruins of a previous house that my chances would be better or has this changed?
Where would i get a map of the locality?Would it have to be a ordance survey type or something?

Kind Regards,

Kieran

bcoffey

FYI - make sure you have the required sight lines at
the top of the cul-de-sac where it meets the
main road. Normally sight lines only
matter at the site entrance but cul-de-sacs
are a special case.

I had problems with my planning because of this.

muffler

kmb, if you are thinking of buying then the present owner should have a map. If not you may have to order one from the OS office or one of its agents or if you know someone locally that would allow you to copy a map (just for the record you need a license to copy an OS map )

I dont think the fact that there was an old house there will be of much use to you unless it was habitable in the last 10 years which according to your post was not the case. As mentioned in the post above vision (sight) lines will be an issue but then so will a lot of things not least the requirement in relation to being indigenous to the area.

get your copy of the map, sketch a rough layout of the site showing entrance, house, septic tank, domestic water supply, surface water run off etc - it doesn't have to be to scale and submit along with a letter requesting a pre-planning meeting.

Maybe a quick word with your local councilor beforehand may help with the local housing needs/roots issue.

kmb

Thanks for the info lads,when you say pre-planning meeting,is this where a planner goes to the site for a visual?

muffler

kmb wrote:

Thanks for the info lads,when you say pre-planning meeting,is this where a planner goes to the site for a visual?

You meet with the planner in his/her office and they tell you what restrictions there are that may affect an application

DSN

We've just applied for pp on a site similar - rubble of a house is still there but not lived in since late 1960's. our acrchitect said officially it wont help that in order for it to qualify it has to have been habitable within last x amount of years (I think it was 20 but could be 10) However on the application he still pushed the fact that there was a house there at one time as he said it could still stand in our favour if say it ended up to be a borderline yes/no case.

paulocon

A lot of counties now run pre-planning clinics, effectively a few hours per week that they make the planners available for meeting...

I think in some cases the fact that there was a house there might be of some use to you. Am I right in saying that in some parts of the country - they are encouraging almost a 'cleaning-up' of the countryside with old ruins being renovated. I could be completely wrong there but I think I heard it was something of an unofficial stance...

galwaytt

...by all means get a pre-planning meeting, but don't be shocked if it proves to be of zero merit once you put your application in. The planning dept won't be bound, or even bound to consider, anything that was said at the pre-planning meeting.

Ask pre-planner for a summary of the meeting, in writing, to be posted/emailed to you, afterwards. DAMHIK.

Anyhoo, on a related point, and on foot of a recent An Bord Planeala decision, there is now a precedent for successful building of a 'replacement' house. This description is brand new, and opens up a lot of older places for like-for-like building, but where the new one is not identical to the original. An example I'll give is an older building that may have had a few extensions added over the years (usually awful flat roof ones, etc..). But now you could replace all that with one new, 'sensible', building, which prior to the 'replacement' decision, would have been impossible.

Might be useful, you never know.........

kmb

Thanks for the info lads,I rang the planning dept. in dungarvan in waterford and there is a month backlog for meeting the planner.
Must get the map and photos also.
I must admit i always thought once there had been a house and you use the same layout planning would be a lot easier but time will tell.
I would have paid and preferred for the planner to call to the property and check it out and say"your wasting your time or whatever"to make it easier.

PS ANY PLANNERS FROM WATERFORD ONHERE???HANDS UP!!
IS THAT ONE DOWN THE BACK.......

Kind Regards,

Kieran

muffler

galwaytt wrote:

...by all means get a pre-planning meeting, but don't be shocked if it proves to be of zero merit once you put your application in. The planning dept won't be bound, or even bound to consider, anything that was said at the pre-planning meeting.

Ask pre-planner for a summary of the meeting, in writing, to be posted/emailed to you, afterwards.

A bit wide of the mark with those comments. All planning Authorities are obliged under planning legislation to grant a meeting to a prospective applicant and record details of discussions etc and follow it up with a written reply. They have to submit details, on a yearly basis, to the DoE of all pre planning consultations.

There is a section of the new standardised application form where the applicant is asked to quote a reference number of any pre planning consultation/meetings in relation to the site.

galwaytt

Muffler, et al, if them's the rules, them's the rules, so be it...... But OP, make sure they stick to them in practice

kmb

Update:
Have a pre planning on thursday 31st but wanted to know as the house probably hasnt been lived in for prob 40 years,where would i get maps showing existing house as it was then?
Where can i get backdated maps?

regards

kieran

smashey

Look for a copy of the 6" map (scale 1:10560).

bakerbhoy

Hi kmb
Just finished something similar with our beloved coco in waterford.Four weeks up last week ,final grant now due.
I wanted to build along a lane to an old ruin on my parents land.I had a planner in tramore, following that a site visit .Planner was not keen on my site choice '',elevated ''.WANTED/ADVISED ME TO APPLY FOR SITE OF OLD RUIN.
POPS WASN'T HAVING ANY OF THAT.:mad: GOT COUNCILLOR TO ARRANGE SITE VISIT FROM HEAD OF PLANNING.
I wasn't at that one but after a lot of lively dicussion he said he would give planning for a low profile 60 yards from my initial site.:D
Of course it was handed to the planner with whom i had the initial meeting with.In my cover letter with the application i mentioned all these meetings and kept strictly to the ''advice '' given as to house type not giving planner any reason to fault.A few trivial things from FI , quickly sorted and planning was given.
You have to play the game with them . They are gods in their own underpants.
Have a sympathetic house style to local area.
Cover all the bases on local needs
You really have to beg and plead on this in your application , use anything you can think of when formulating this ''truth of course'' ask councillors for advise on this.

kmb

Hi bakerbhoy,congrats on your planning!!
I spoke to them again today and it seems i will need to clear the ruin area so that i can take pictures and average height etc.
Damn was hoping not to have to uproot trees and shrubbery and a couple tons of weeds!!
So you have a ruin for sale near tramore?good fallback!!pm price!!Hmm only joking.(or am i?)he he..


Hi smashey,
where would i get one of those maps do you know?

Thanks for the info lads.

regards,

Kieran

sesswhat

kmb wrote:

where would i get one of those maps do you know?

Try your local library and someone will help you find the right map. You might have to go to a bigger branch to get the one you want. When it comes to the actual planning application you can order a 'planning pack' of maps from the Ordance Survey Website.

smashey

sesswhat wrote:

Try your local library and someone will help you find the right map. You might have to go to a bigger branch to get the one you want. When it comes to the actual planning application you can order a 'planning pack' of maps from the Ordance Survey Website.

The planning packs are good. Any I have bought have the 1:2500 maps updated but the 1:10560 maps are still from the 1950's or in some cases even further back.

smashey

smashey wrote:

The planning packs are good. Any I have bought have the 1:2500 maps updated but the 1:10560 maps are still from the 1950's or in some cases even further back.

The maps I used were levelled in 1914 :rolleyes: but have recently been updated.

smashey

Deleted User wrote:

The maps I used were levelled in 1914 :rolleyes: but have recently been updated.

Yeah, but when you buy the planning pack, for some strange reason the 6" map is still the old one while they send you the updated 25" maps. Weird.

kmb

The pre planning meeting went well but i forgot toask them a question and maybe ye know the answer?

If ful planning permission is granted how much of the build must be complete within the 5 year? timescale to keep within the guidelines.
Just wondering in case we go direct labour instead of builder and string it out.

kind regards

kieran

muffler

kmb wrote:

The pre planning meeting went well but i forgot toask them a question and maybe ye know the answer?

If ful planning permission is granted how much of the build must be complete within the 5 year? timescale to keep within the guidelines.
Just wondering in case we go direct labour instead of builder and string it out.

kind regards

kieran

You are expected to have the works completed within 5 years. However there is provision made for an extension of the permission. Basically if you have have "substantial works" completed you can apply for a 2 or 3 year extension of the original permission. This merely involves filling a form and paying a fee.
A lot of planning authorities will differ on the definition of "substantial" but if you have it built, roofed and windows & doors fitted you will be fine.

I see a couple of them here in Donegal get an extension of the permission if they have the block work completed.

kmb

Thanks for the quick response!!

Was thinking of going with this builder,what do you think of his specs?

http://www.mcdonnellhomes.com/frameset.htm
Foundations
Reinforced concrete strip foundation to comply strictly with Department of Environment requirements (details on request)

External Walls
12" Cavity Walls, insulation to comply with department requirements. 27" high rising walls as standard on top of concrete foundation.
Internal Walls
4" Internal solid block partition walls on own independent foundations.

Roof
Selected colour pantiles on White Deal Batton, on sarking felt, on stress graded timber roof trusses at 16" centres. Selected Colour aluminium coated seamless gutters and PVC downpipes.

Ceiling
Gyptex plain plaster slabs, skimmed with gyptex skim. (Finished floor to ceiling height=8'0")-Standard Attic Insulation.

External Finish
Plain plaster finish with plaster Quoinstone, Lough Liscannor stone or Corkstone where shown on plan

Internal Finish
Sand/Cement plaster skimmed with skimcoat skim.

External Joinery
All external windows and doors to be of white PVC, including PVC inserts in sashs to prevent draughts.(Double-Glazing).4 point locking system to doors.(Choice of PVC front door) White, aluminium, double-glazed back-door & front door units.
Internal Doors and Carpentry
All internal doors to be standard 6 panelled Regency doors.White deal door frames,White deal moulded skirting & architraves, parana pine door saddles and teak windowboards. Standard georgian rope-edged handles & lock sets to all internal doors.

Wardrobes
White Ash PVC wardrobes with Oval Mirror & vanity unit to wall-to-wall fitment in bedroom 1. Standard cloaks/closet to Hall where shown. (Wall-to-Wall fitment to bedroom 1 where shown only).(Choice of 3 no. different types).
Plumbing
Colored three piece bathroom suite, plumbing only for sink to kitchen and dual immersion cylinder in Hot Press. Plumbing for washing machine. Coloured 3 piece ware to en-suite where shown. Triton T-90i pumped electric shower & ceramic tray to en-suite where shown. Plumb only for dishwasher - 1 no. standard outside tap included.

regards

kieran

Mellor

Surely you can choose your own windows and/or furniture units

kmb

Most probably,but my main concern would be structural and perphaps with a view to the new thermal requirements which i often read here with regard to thermal efficency.
What should i request when i meet the builder?

Also do you think i would save much going for direct labour over the prices which they charge for their acorn product @€;81,300?

Kind Regards

Kieran