Running it twice?

Jimmy Hoffa

Last night se cash game loose lots of raising rerraising,seven handed game.Its raised 7 blind by loose player been up for 30 hours and really looks like he needs sleep. ls called in 4 places and reraised to 35 by solid winning player.The usual 5 callers and we have a flop ,flop is 457 2diamonds loosey leads for the pot all folds back to winning player who pumps it for 500 called by loosey who has ace 5 off. The reraiser has aq diamonds and its allin on the flop.Its sugguested they split the pot between the two players and afew people at table start complaining.One guy ffs id ak etc he keeps saying after a few minutes the two players involved ask to run it twice after asking the floor manager and dealer its ran twice and ace 5 wins twice.My ? is is this legal when others have money invested in the pot the table broke almost immediately after this players ababandoned ship they thought they were been cheated i think. I am just asking as ive never seen it ran twice live in a casino,there was no ? of colluding or other skulldugery both players a bit worse for wear are of the highest moral standing im sure but is it allowed legally?

Lazare

LOL @ Halfbaked and Jbravado.

Sick degenerates on a 40 hour binge.

They are entitled to do whatever they agree to when HU.

Someone complaining that they had money invested in the pot, is like me getting knocked out in the first level of a tourney and objecting to a final table deal.

Flushdraw

Lazare wrote:

LOL @ Halfbaked and Jbravado.

Sick degenerates on a 40 hour binge.

They are entitled to do whatever they agree to when HU.

Someone complaining that they had money invested in the pot, is like me getting knocked out in the first level of a tourney and objecting to a final table deal.

LOL i really wish i had of joined them now! bundle of laughs!

Ste05

I never understand why people who have already given up on a pot thinking they have some kind of ownership of what happens to it after they have folded.

Once they don't think there is collusion going on, I don't see anything wrong with this.

Mellor

They could of split it before dealing and still nothing wrong. Its just whinging and crying from moany gits

BuChan

hahaha! "loosey" that's great. A5.... middle pair...raise.... reraised..?... i'm allllyinnn!

i don't see why people have any objection at all with running it twice or splitting the pot, once they've folded they no longer have a say. there splitting pots pretty frequently in SE these days... i've seen it 4 or 5 times....... LOL, coincidentally everytime it's "loosey" jbravado. i think it's a good thing 500/600 is a lot to some of us and it's not fun to be outdrawn for those kind of amounts.

gdez

Sounds pretty standard to me, once the 2 players involved agree (cos once any1 folded they were no longer involved in the hand) then that's the end of it.

Unfortunate for the nut flush draw to not hit 1 of 2 times tho.

Jesus Wept

It's a bad idea because it is going to slow the game down further, its unnecessary and unfair to the other players at the table.

We have seen it done on highstakes when there is 100k at stake and all the players know each other very well. Even then someone often seems to take the worst of it and give up their advantage.


It's best to nip it in the bud now.

MrPillowTalk

Theres no advantage given up running it twice, the only thing it does is reduce variance, nobody is taking the worst of it.

It slows the game somewhat, but hey thats live poker.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Mellor

I you and a friend (or a stranger) are all-in. There's extra cash in the pot. The cards are turned over and its pretty much a coinflip, spliting the pot reduces all varience. so, i'd have no problem doing it, or siting there while its done.

Jesus Wept

It slows the game down, the game is based on variance.

bunch of accountants here today

phantom_lord

isn't running it twice worse for the person with less outs to win?

I think i rememeber a brief 2+2 thread on it.

MrPillowTalk

phantom_lord wrote:

isn't running it twice worse for the person with less outs to win?

I think i rememeber a brief 2+2 thread on it.

no the ev of your hand is equal wheither you play the hand once or a thousand times, the only difference is variance is higher in the short run.

Mellor

The-Rigger wrote:

It slows the game down, the game is based on variance.

bunch of accountants here today

the game is based on varience? I wouldn't agree with at,
the game is a based more on probability, varience is a part of the game. and it causes results to moke away from what they should be.

phantom_lord wrote:

isn't running it twice worse for the person with less outs to win?

I think i rememeber a brief 2+2 thread on it.

running it twice it is worse for the person with less outs, but only because it really is worse for them, they are the underdog
say you are all-in on a flush draw, if you ran it 3 times, you should hit once. thats closer to the true %. of course you might hit all three times.
bad beats are a part of the game, everyone knows that in the long run they even out. as long as you are getting your cash in with a +ev, then you are going to win in the long run.
running it twice just shortens that run a little

eoghan104

MrPillowTalk wrote:

no the ev of your hand is equal wheither you play the hand once or a thousand times, the only difference is variance is higher in the short run.

But surley the person with less outs wants the variance to be higher as they will always lose in the long run as variance levels out?

phantom_lord

oops. yeah, my memory was off.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=PLOmaha&Number=8722591&Searchpage=1&Main=8712350



http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=genpok&Number=9295493&Searchpage=1&Main=9253121

MrPillowTalk

eoghan104 wrote:

But surley the person with less outs wants the variance to be higher as they will always lose in the long run as variance levels out?

Completely depends on your point of view, ev stays the same so nothing changes once, twice ..... a milliion.

Also if your all in with a flush draw its as attractive to have 2 shots of hitting it as it is for the other guy to take his edge twice and reduce the ammount he goes broke on a suckout.

Variance doesnt favour anyone no matter who has more outs etc.

Mellor

eoghan104 wrote:

But surley the person with less outs wants the variance to be higher as they will always lose in the long run as variance levels out?

Just because people complain that they are losing due to varience,
remember that it can go both ways.
The person with less outs could lose more often than they should due to varience too.

eoghan104

Mellor wrote:

Just because people complain that they are losing due to varience,
remember that it can go both ways.
The person with less outs could lose more often than they should due to varience too.

Does it not also make a difference that they dont re shuffle after running it once therfore the flush draw has a better chance of hitting after 2 blanks come as there are now less blanks in the deck therfore making it more profitable?

Mellor

eoghan104 wrote:

Does it not also make a difference that they dont re shuffle after running it once therfore the flush draw has a better chance of hitting after 2 blanks come as there are now less blanks in the deck therfore making it more profitable?

Yes, I would imagine thats true, if the flush misses the first time then there is a slighty higher chance it will hit the second time.

But also remember that if the flush does hit the first time, there is a much higher chance that it will miss the second time.

and the amount of improvement or dissimprovement is inversely proportional to the chances of them occuring in the first place. It all evens out