Speed of trigger squeeze/Target Pics

bullets

I was told on several occasions to Slow down while shooting
as I was fireing off shots too quickly.
I noticed all newbies or vistitors to the range I goto fire way too quickly too.

Now I have tried slowing Waaayyy down and resting the eyes
between shots and various other things but I am just as comfortable
fireing 5 rounds off in 30 seconds as I am at fireing 5 rounds off in 30 minutes.
(Is that wrong ?) When I feel comfortable I take the shot so I dont feel
as though I am rushing things (even though I may be)

So far when I have taken my time and slowly squeezed the trigger until
the shot fired I am getting more or less the same results as if I was
squeezing the trigger a lot more faster.

When I squeese very slowly the shot will often come as a surprise which
it good (aparently) but the consistancy of the point of impact varies a little more.
When I squeeze faster I know when the rifle will fire and in my mind I feel as
I distinctly hear a diffferent sound as the rifle fires I dont know if that makes
sense or not. (I am not jerking the trigger BTW)

With the scope/mounts still needing a little work from freshly zeroed
all the shots are going more or less where I want them. I still am only
getting just under 1inch groups at 50m but I feel I should be getting
way tighter groups and that I should be able to get 1inch groups at
100m.

~B

The black bulls/targets on the image below have a diameter of 23mm.

Sparks

Bullets, what rifle were you using and were you shooting from a rest or from prone? What was the wind like on the day and what ammunition were you shooting and have you matched it to the barrell?

bullets

CZ452 .17HMR Varmint
Using 17g Vmax from Hornady.
50m Range Bench rest.
Wind was kinda choppy but not too strong.

I started with a Bi-pod but took it off as the sound from
it every time I took a shot annoyed me. I could hear the springs
as my cheek was against the stock when I fired.

~B

.243

bullets wrote:

CZ452 .17HMR Varmint
Using 17g Vmax from Hornady.
50m Range Bench rest.
Wind was kinda choppy but not too strong.

I started with a Bi-pod but took it off as the sound from
it every time I took a shot annoyed me. I could hear the springs
as my cheek was against the stock when I fired.

~B

you might have a bit of flinch,try finding out when your pulling the trigger at what point does it break,when you have that figured out get a friend to load the rifle for you with single rounds,turn your head away while they feed either a spent round or live round into the chamber (loaders choice)then you'll know quick enough yourself if your flinching or not when you pull the trigger.

Sparks

Hmm. See, there's the rub - if you want to check one thing, you can't vary other things while you're doing it.
I mean, choppy wind, changing from bipod to rest, the bipod under tension (and so maybe slipping or maybe bending a little), any of those things could be throwing you out of the bull.
Perhaps try on an indoor range from a bench vice and ignore trying to hit the bull, just get the rifle roughly on the paper at all, then focus solely on trigger release. Do ten shots fast, move the vice a little to put you on another part of the target, then do ten shots slowly. Then take it out of the vice and do the same thing again, but from a rest or a sling. That should give you a better idea of the effect of the trigger release.

bullets

.243 wrote:

you might have a bit of flinch,try finding out when your pulling the trigger at what point does it break,when you have that figured out get a friend to load the rifle for you with single rounds,turn your head away while they feed either a spent round or live round into the chamber (loaders choice)then you'll know quick enough yourself if your flinching or not when you pull the trigger.

with my .17 the brass expands in the chamber after being fired
so I cant chamber a spend case. :-(
I would like to work on my trigger pull or try some excersises to improve things.

Hopefully I dont flinch, I dont think I do.
I do classical fencing too where you have to train the body not to flinch
or to anticiate getting hit as the muscles will tense up the wrong way.
Getting hit in the face (with a mask on) over and over again when starting
off you automaticly flinch but after a while you overcome it and
become flinchless.

When shooting in the past with iron sites with all the ol FCA stuff
Big Bang small bang did not bother me when fireing.


~B

Sparks

bullets wrote:

Hopefully I dont flinch, I dont think I do.

Most people hope they don't flinch
Thing is, you can't really tell without checking. The exercise .243 suggested is a tried and trusted method.

When shooting in the past with iron sites with all the ol FCA stuff
Big Bang small bang did not bother me when fireing.

Well... the question is, how much of a flinch could you have with RDF targets and not notice it in the scoring?

Ruger.220swift

Try pulling the trigger with the part of your trigger finger that is closest to your palm rather than with the end of your finger. This way your finger is not as pressure sensitive and the gun will fire unexpectedly so to speak.. much more accurate if you flinch when you shoot..

ArthurJ

Psittacosis has the same setup and he can shoot ½ MOA groups (that’s ¼ inch at fifty yards) and he’s not even a target shooter.
There’s something going on alright.

bullets

ArthurJ wrote:

Psittacosis has the same setup and he can shoot ½ MOA groups (that’s ¼ inch at fifty yards) and he’s not even a target shooter.
There’s something going on alright.

And he's got a hell of a lot more shooting experiance than myself.
I'm only starting out! so have yet to go through all the newbie
mistakes. (Could be an intesting post....the top 10 newbie mistakes)

One thing I did learn quite quickly was any shooting I did with the FCA/RDF
years ago meant Squat diddly when you start with rimfire with scope.
completly different ball game.

With regards to the FCA/RDF I dunno how it is now as I am gone from it since
about 98/99 You did not really learn an awful lot about shooting.
Some (not all) people leave and start "civi" shooting and assume
they know a lot about shooting simply from FCA/RDF training.

It could be my imagination but from time to time on boards/talking and reading that Irish shooter digest I get the feeling there is almost a hostility towards ex/present RDF/FCA heads because of this.


~B

Vegeta

bullets wrote:

It could be my imagination but from time to time on boards/talking and reading that Irish shooter digest I get the feeling there is almost a hostility towards ex/present RDF/FCA heads because of this.

~B

I think in every walk of life people will always sneer at the know it alls who actually know very little.

You are man enough to say that after the FCA/RDF you have to learn all over again with a rimfire and scope. ( I am a crap target shooter by the way)

There are others who are not so modest and are like "shooting, sher I was great at that in the FCA, target shooting is a piece of piss"

Generally I'd say its that attitude that gets frowned upon

bullets

I could nearly be guitly of it myself.
I have myself chuckled to myself when overhearing a conversation
at the range where a bloke who had said he was in the RDF was making up calibres out of his head and in the same breath started going on about how all handguns
in Ireland were illegal when in the background you could hear the noise
from the handgun range!!! I got great entertainment listening to him.
(He even arrived with an old army backpack/webgear)

~B

freddieot

It would seem from looking at the targets you posted that you are getting 2 grouping positions.

One reason could be that you are moving your body position between shots. Another could be that you are using a different part of your trigger finger to make contact with the trigger for each shot or lastly that you use the same part of your finger but sometimes push back in different directions. Try, (i) carefully making sure that you don't move position between shots (ii) put a black mark on your finger and always contact this with the trigger before a shot (iii) always squeeze the trigger in a straight line rather than off to the right or left.

Hope you can work it out.

Freddie

Umiq88

Try dry firing the gun at home and get a feel for when the trigger will release. This should help a bit.

CZ's are ok to dry fire or you could put a spent case in it if your worried.

I wouldn't worry to much about those group size's 1" isnt bad at all you'll imporve with time just dont put pressure on yourself accurate shooting requires you to be relaxed but focused.

You may benifit from a brooks kit and floating your barrel if anything it wil give you confidence in the gun.

bullets

psittacosis wrote:

CZ's are ok to dry fire or you could put a spent case in it if your worried.

You may benifit from a brooks kit and floating your barrel if anything it wil give you confidence in the gun.

my spent casings wont fit into the chamber. It seems the brass expands.
it ejects fine but as soon as I try load an empty shell back in to try and dry fire
it gets stuck just afer the neck. I may try making my own type of snapcaps with
some spent shells. (As I dont see snapcaps for any rimfire calibres)
I dont want to chance trying to take the head off a live round and wetting the
primer to make it inert as its probably not safe.

I can run a banknote down the channel so its floated but I may at a later stage
maybe open it up a tiny bit and also do job on the bedding.
I got the brooks kit in the post. I have the #3 spring in it but
am gonna change it to the #2 to make it lighter.
#1 is too light and like a biro sping and looks like
it woud loose its tension/springyness over time.

The Front trigger pin is flared at the ends unlike the rear trigger pin.
It also does not look as long.

I know you mentioned before you prefered the heavier spring for
the trigger pull. Any recommendation on which Tube to use
for a brand spanking new rifle. I'd ideally like to do the job the once
and leave it at that. instead of knocking out pins over and over until
I tried all of the tubes.

When you took out the front trigger pin that is flared like a rivot, after
replacing the pin what did you do ? Did you hammer it to flatten out the end
of the pin to secure it or leave the pin the way it was. (Or am I not making sense)

Cant make it up this weekend to the range have some work to do with
the family and I dont have lift :-(

~B

ArthurJ

bullets
Found this on the net. It might help.

" When I did my .22lr I used 2" nail with a small hammer with the rifle on my thighs, then a cheap surplus allen key as found with scopes and mounts to pursuade the pins down. Made the tube insertion with the pin still i situe having not drifted it completely out the lower portion. The pin should be able to be gently pushed back up in place and the remaining portion of the peened pin back in place, then to hold it in place a dab of loc tite. Not forgetting to drop test the sears with the olde shock test, ie bang the butt on the floor to ensure it is still safe and wont fire if dropped. Adjust the spring as required, drop test again when your happy loc tite it and enjoy.

No need for fancy tools / jigs, simple tools and 20 mins, job done"

Best of luck

Umiq88

Yeah the front pin is riveted at the end i just hit it out with a nail i think just make sure you support the other side with something cant remember what i used just a bit of metal with a hole big enough for the pin to go through.

I have the heaviest spring but the rifle is used for hunting for sole range use safety isnt as much of a concern the rifle will only be loaded when pointing down range. As for the tube try the red one (largest) if its safe and working i'd use that otherwise work your way down to one that works.

ArthurJ

This could be good, a fully adjustable sear, in stainless steel. In the States and they post worldwide.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1678&title=CZ+452+ADJUSTABLE+SEAR

Best of luck

Umiq88

Trigger mods for a CZ are

DIY, Brooks kit(tubes and springs), adjutable sear, basix trigger(drop in unit) and the timney trigger(drop in)


IMO the adjustable sear and a spring out of the brooks kit is the best solution many have done it and achieved best results with that set up.

bullets

ArthurJ wrote:

This could be good, a fully adjustable sear, in stainless steel. In the States and they post worldwide.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1678&title=CZ+452+ADJUSTABLE+SEAR

Best of luck

Aww Excellent thanks. That looks great. My Friends .22
has a worn or rounded sear so that bit of kit may come in
handy for both of us.
~B