politicalcompass.org's guide to the Irish parties

cornbb

Went on a web trawl to look for guidance on the pre-election candidates, given that I'm not very well up on things. Started out by looking at the parties' percieved ideologies and found this interesting graph and article:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ireland

Given that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are grounded in history rather than ideology, their Political Compass positions posed a particular challenge. However our chart reflects Fine Gael's slightly business friendlier posture and Fianna Fáil's deeper attachment to traditional social attitudes.

Ideology is more distinct in the smaller parties,with Labour following most of its sister parties abroad by accepting the prevailing market economy, though cloaking it in social democratic language. This leaves the Socialists keeping the red flag flying and the Greens offering a sort of decentralised Socialism Lite. Like Liberal parties throughout Europe, the Progressive Democrats combine neoliberal economics with comparatively liberal social policies.

We're not about to predict the outcome of the election in Ireland, which, as likely as not, will result in a coalition of rather strange bedfellows.

Thought the last line of that was funny, its nice to get an outsiders view. Its right though, thinking about it - looking at the position of FF/PDs on the compass, it makes you wonder whether their ideological standpoints on various things make them compatible enough to be in power together? Or whether the PDs have sold out on their supposedly liberal policies?

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud here...

Slippers

A fascinating and informative web site. I got most of my family to take the questionnaire.

Dirk Gently

Looks about right, I suspect the Pd’s are probably a bit further along the right axis though (more extreme / radical than indicated) and FG a bit higher on the Authoritarian axis. Maybe FF /FG should switch positions on the authoritarian axis but the left / right difference between them looks about right. I reckon SF could probably float into a few different quadrants depending what colours they are wearing on the day.

Either way the next government will be somewhere around where FG are represented on the graph regardless of which of the current partnerships form it. The only significant difference would be if FF/LAB formed a centre government or if FG/PD's formed a very right wing government. (I suspect most of the mentioned parties would prefer to be aligned that way, but of course can't publically say so). I’m just glad the FG/PD alliance wont have the numbers to make up what has to be said is the most compatible partnership based on ideology.

GusherING

Labour on the right? This compass is a joke. I did the test and I ended up being closest to the socialist party, when in fact their policies are repugnant to my opinions.

AdMMM

Maybe they should be slightly on the left, but not by much.

LostinBlanch

GusherING wrote:

Labour on the right?

Could have something to do with their tax cutting policies!

GusherING wrote:

This compass is a joke. I did the test and I ended up being closest to the socialist party, when in fact their policies are repugnant to my opinions.

As for the accuracy or not of the compass, it's a guide. But if you're really that excercised about it, hey go ahead and make one of your own.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

E92

Well according to that political Compass thing, I'm closest to Labour, which in a way is true, but I'm a complete Blueshirt supporter(but not a member), but Labour will get my vote after I've voted for the FG candidates in my constituency, and after that the Greenies.

Victor

I think its wrong to present parties as dots. Parties have branches and wings that individuals don't have.

One the one side, FG has the "Law & Order" types, but on the other has the "civil liberties types".

Historicly FF has done things like social welfare, council housing and looking after small farmers .... and big builders.

Labour has given workers more time off, but cut the higher rate of tax more than the lower one.

redspider

Victor wrote:

I think its wrong to present parties as dots. Parties have branches and wings that individuals don't have.

I agree. A party should have an area, a splodge on the graph, and with such markings you would see overlaps, etc.

On the issue of whether similar parties on the compass should come together in a coalition or not, I dont think its written in stone that that's what a better coalition is likely to be. Especially in Ireland with FF and FG so close and between them garnering around 60%-70% of the vote, that means that coalitions will be formed by 'opposing' policies, as FF v FG is a fight on colour and execiution rather than idealogues.

Redspider

The_Minister

I think that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael should swop their positions on the vertical axis. Other than that its about right.

While Victor has a point, parties are not just dots, they have different wings within them, and while most parties sometimes adopt policies that go against what they believe generally for matters of practicality, there is something to be said for having this kind of simplistic representation as a reference point, as long as nothing too deep is read into it.

EDIT: I just did it there. I'm somewhere between FF and FG. The questions on that site are deseigned for Americans, I don't think that they suit the Irish political landscape.

Time Magazine

They certainly didn't suit their questions to an Irish audience and I'm fairly sure anyone from Ireland who does it will find them a little more left than they truly are.

Someone from Trinity's Political Science department did some survey research on this a couple of years ago. If I can find the link I will post the results here; they were slightly different I think.

In the meantime you should make-do with this searchable database on the history of Irish opinion polls.

ArthurDent

Ibid wrote:

They certainly didn't suit their questions to an Irish audience and I'm fairly sure anyone from Ireland who does it will find them a little more left than they truly are.

Someone from Trinity's Political Science department did some survey research on this a couple of years ago. If I can find the link I will post the results here; they were slightly different I think.

In the meantime you should make-do with this searchable database on the history of Irish opinion polls.

I'd say you're probably right on this, but I was reasonably comfortable on where I landed

Bobser

Very interesting - didn't know that it had been updated for Ireland

Bobser

No surprise to see that over 80% of voters in Ireland are centerists or on the right. In fact the vast majority are in the centre. I think many would be surprised that SF is so left but then I don't think it's principally for economic reasons that they get votes.

brianthebard

Labour should definitely be to the left, even if its just slightly left of centre.

SeanW

remember they only use "left" and "right" to discuss economic policies, and most parties do advocate some kind of low corporate tax/free market economic policy. Matters like Iraq, public spending, etc don't come into it, but some come into the other metric, Authoritarian vs. Liberatarian.

Personally I think the Pee Dees lost their right to be on the Libertarian side when Mary Harney banned magic mushrooms - the Nanny state gone mad, I think. Not that I'd ever use magic mushrooms, but as a citizen on whose shared-behalf these laws are made, I don't feel it's any of my business to tell someone else not to do it.

Solair

Ireland doesn't have a very 'strong party' system and there is a huge range of opinions represented within many of the political parties. It's impossible to categorise them that accurately based on philosophy.

I mean how could you define Fianna Fail or Fine Gael's philosophy?

Fianna Fail's whatever the electorate wants it to be on any given day. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it is afterall a democracy. They sell the electorate a product that's closest to what the electroate want.

Fine Gael is the same, only they have one extra policy element "we're not fine fail"

Labour - They're hardly socialist anymore! I mean it's impossible to distinguish their policies from FF or FG in most instances! They're very centre thesedays.

PDs - In some ways they're radical pro business and pro free market, then they come out in favour of a process like risk equalistation which would be seen as nearly communism if they were in a US context! Interfering with the market, extreme interventionism. Also, on the social policy front they're anything but Right Wing.

Greens - Well, they're pro environmental, but they're amongst the more pragmatic and centre Green Parties in Western Europe

Sinn Fein :
Rapidly learning about Irish Centrist policy. If they hope to gain more seats they'll get their act together and start behaving like FF and FG.

Others :
Well.. they don't really have enough scale to actually have all encompassing policies.


The majority of Irish elections are not fought or won on grand political philsophies. When it comes down to it we have 42 general elections and they're almost entirely faught out on the basis of issues and personality. Party is increasingly irrelevant.

It's generally not really appropriate to attempt to apply a political compass to Irish parties. You could, however, apply it to individual politicians.

When it comes down to it you'll get a similar pragmatic mix of pro-business, freemarket, with a mix of socialism, green policies and a smattering of interventionalism from any potential government. It just depends which brand you want. Will it be Coke or will it be Pepsi!
Obviously, the personalities and individual ministers and their competencies will have a lot to do with it too.