Push it! Push it real good!

BigCityBanker

A good spot to shove?

Live 1/2 NL

Effective Stacks 330.

I limp in MP with Kd Qd - 7 people see the flop

Flop Kc Qs Jc

Checked to me and i bet 15, Small Morocan Joe goes all in for 50 (this means nothing he could have pocket deuces but most likely has a draw of some description), Called in two spots by people who had initially limped preflop and then checked the flop.

There is 180 in the pot - is this a good spot to shove? Id be shoving 310 into a pot of 180? Is this ever a wise move.

I would not rate either villian as being any good.

eoghan104

Do you think either of them can play a straight like this? If not then its a definate push and expect to get called by fushdraws and 10x and worse 2 pairs!!!

ianmc38

Thats a board where i wouldnt be overly excited by flopping top 2.

eoghan104

ianmc38 wrote:

Thats a board where i wouldnt be overly excited by flopping top 2.

Would you fold?

BigCityBanker

ianmc38 wrote:

Thats a board where i wouldnt be overly excited by flopping top 2.

would you slowplay a set or a made straight?

Ac 10c is the only thing im slowplaying there.

MacStacked

BigCityBanker wrote:

I would not rate either villian as being any good.

A bad player might..

HiCloy

Its a wise move if either of the remaining players will call your shove with a bare flush draw or say 10x for an open ender.....otherwise no, you're only getting called by a set or straight

I don't think a set is very likely on that board anyways if there have been no preflop raises

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

eoghan104

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Both are possible in a live game in Dublin. A happens more often than B on average though so I think shoving is ok.

Agreed. my answer was based purely on the fact that its in the Emporium.

ianmc38

BigCityBanker wrote:

would you slowplay a set or a made straight?

Ac 10c is the only thing im slowplaying there.

I wouldn't slowplay a set or mae straight but I play all my big hands fast. Most bad player slove tos lowplay. I'd only slowplay ATc/9Tc and I probably wouldnt bother slowplaying them a si'd be expecting to take KQ/KJ/Qj/KT to valuetown....

That said, I'd need more information on both players in the hand to make a decision. Are they trappy or are they I bet with my made hands type people? Are they passive or aggressive. Would they go broke with one pair? Would they limp JJ/QQ/KK preflop? Would they call off their full stack with one pair/pair draw combo?

All of these things are really important.

ianmc38

eoghan104 wrote:

Would you fold?

Probably not. i might call and shove a blank turn, but it would depend on loads of factors.

BigCityBanker

ianmc38 wrote:

I wouldn't slowplay a set or mae straight but I play all my big hands fast. Most bad player slove tos lowplay. I'd only slowplay ATc/9Tc and I probably wouldnt bother slowplaying them a si'd be expecting to take KQ/KJ/Qj/KT to valuetown....

That said, I'd need more information on both players in the hand to make a decision. Are they trappy or are they I bet with my made hands type people? Are they passive or aggressive. Would they go broke with one pair? Would they limp JJ/QQ/KK preflop? Would they call off their full stack with one pair/pair draw combo?

All of these things are really important.

Have you let Ghollimoli log into your account?

Villians are poor, one villian did slowplay the absolute after flopping it and got paid off. Other villian is pretty transparent imo. I dont think either are capable of being overly tricky. I would rule out sets here with near certainty. Some ppl have been raising to 16 - 20 utg with their hands and it is seen as being acceptable..

Would they go broke on one pair? i dont know - i dont think they are in the same bad league as the Chief.

phantom_lord

I'd probably just call

Gholimoli

As Ian said, this how to play the hand depends on the factors he mentioned.
IMO its silly to say “do you think they have a straight, if you don’t then shove”.

eoghan104

Gholimoli wrote:

As Ian said, this how to play the hand depends on the factors he mentioned.
IMO its silly to say “do you think they have a straight, if you don’t then shove”.

why? i meant is it possible that their the type of players that would slowplay a straight? whats wrong with that?

Lissavalley

I call and shove a blank turn.

Ste05

It's never really a good idea to get AI for over 150BB's on the flop in a 7-way limped pot without the nuts. Although as has been said this is a hugely "had to be there" kind of hand

I'd have raised this Pre-Flop about 100% of the time, so I'm not quite sure what I'd do in this spot, probably just call and hope the board pairs on the turn.

BigCityBanker

Ste05 wrote:

I'd have raised this Pre-Flop about 100% of the time, so I'm not quite sure what I'd do in this spot, probably just call and hope the board pairs on the turn.

I would do this also but the reason i didnt on this occasion was cos I was oop to Mickste. I make it 15 with my holding and he makes it 40 with a wide range from 99 - AA + AK, that then leaves me in a quandry. I do not fancy playing an inflated pot oop. I can limp call his raise but if I raise i need to drop it almost every time if he repops it.

eoghan104

what did you do anyway?

Gholimoli

eoghan104 wrote:

why? i meant is it possible that their the type of players that would slowplay a straight? whats wrong with that?

First of your hand is not only behind a straight but behind any KK,QQ,JJ .
While I agree that KK,QQ is not likely but it is possible.
What you suggested in not practical. you are asking if hero can put either of the villains on 2 specific hands or not and you are suggesting a strategy based on that.
This can never be correct .i mean how is hero gonna know if villain is slow playing a set/straight or not?
A proper strategy would be to come up with an optimal strategy based on the range of holdings you can be up against.

eoghan104

Gholimoli wrote:

First of your hand is not only behind a straight but behind any KK,QQ,JJ .
While I agree that KK,QQ is not likely but it is possible.
What you suggested in not practical. you are asking if hero can put either of the villains on 2 specific hands or not and you are suggesting a strategy based on that.
This can never be correct .i mean how is hero gonna know if villain is slow playing a set/straight or not?
A proper strategy would be to come up with an optimal strategy based on the range of holdings you can be up against.

yeh well i wasnt saying "does this guy have a straight? yes/no?" i said is it possible that he plays a straight like this? they are very different questions no? do you not know any players where in this same spot you can 99% rule out a straight as there holding?

i had ruled out a set as 95% of the time in that game JJ+ raises.

BigCityBanker

When it came back to me i dewlled up for a few moments, asked for clarification as to wether or not I could reopen the betting, and said "feck it - lets gamble" as i ditched my chips in the middle.

I could all but rule out a set unless they limped preflop with the intention of reraising which didnt materialise. I felt "they" were the type of players to raise A 10 from early position so I was more worried about 9 10. In short I felt I was well ahead of their range - I reckoned neither had a concept of pot odds and that there may be a possibility they would come along for the ride with a lone 10 or a flushdraw. If they wanted to dance they were gonna have to pay the full price! I shot them a few glances as i asked about reopening the betting etc and neither looked to be excited.

The first villian folded, the second villian called and I filled the nappy with disgust. A brick on the turn and river and the villian declared 2 pair, I showed KQ and he mucked so I assume he had KJ or QJ. Joe also folded his holding so I scooped the whole lot.

Obviously results based thinking dictates that I played the hand perfectly but I was looking for opinions.

phantom_lord

BigCityBanker wrote:

and said "feck it - lets gamble" as i ditched my chips in the middle.

nice!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38

Lol. Worst speechplay ever after Macspower: "Okay lets gamble so" - pushes preflop with AA, postflop pushes with the nuts

phantom_lord

the ahk scripts are all screwed up on ftp, when u go to bet it goes to put you all-in.

So i shoved aa utg on a table of decent players who I'm assumed probably had the software, knew the problem and would call me somewhat light. no joy

Flushdraw

ianmc38 wrote:

Lol. Worst speechplay ever after Macspower: "Okay lets gamble so" - pushes preflop with AA, postflop pushes with the nuts

LOL thats the keyword here. Love it!

Macspower

your so goooooood Ian.... lol...... Your right gambling is only for the nuts.....